Question for choir directors complaining about the new Mass settings

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Love_Divine

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If it’s so terrible, and everyone agrees it’s terrible, then why not just learn the old the Latin chants and use Gregorian Chant instead? Really, it makes no sense to me. Both the choir and the congregation has to learn new music anyway, and I’m sure there are some people who at the very least kinda sorta remember the Latin chants, which is more than what can be said about the new Mass settings, so why not just use Latin???:confused:
 
Love_Divine said:
If it’s so terrible, and everyone agrees it’s terrible, then why not just learn the old the Latin chants and use Gregorian Chant instead? Really, it makes no sense to me. Both the choir and the congregation has to learn new music anyway, and I’m sure there are some people who at the very least kinda sorta remember the Latin chants, which is more than what can be said about the new Mass settings, so why not just use Latin???:confused:
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👍
 
Love_Divine said:
If it’s so terrible, and everyone agrees it’s terrible, then why not just learn the old the Latin chants and use Gregorian Chant instead? Really, it makes no sense to me. Both the choir and the congregation has to learn new music anyway, and I’m sure there are some people who at the very least kinda sorta remember the Latin chants, which is more than what can be said about the new Mass settings, so why not just use Latin???:confused:
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Makes sense to me too. And it’s more universal besides. 👍
 
I know a lot of people are going to say, here they go again with their Gregorian chant, but have a listen to this Kyrie XI. This recording is a little slower than it is normally sung, but it is absolutely beautiful.

youtube.com/watch?v=SHx8PIjP34U

It is so easy for people to sing along to.

The choir sings
The people respond
The choir sings
The people respond

Easy to learn in a few sittings.
 
I completely agree, but it ain’t gonna happen. We may be getting new translations, but the music will still be the same.

My parish will still use Gather, though it’s the new edition. It’s been stated by folks in charge that we will never use chant or polyphony and that our “community” (not parish) isn’t a chanting one.

If your Catholic community uses anything by GIA or OCP, they will probably continue to do so. Both publishers have been way ahead of the curve on this – sending out info packets and having seminars to learn the music, etc. While GIA and OCP offer Gregorian chant Mass settings, you probably won’t hear it. Until Rome forcefully states that Gregorian chant is the only option, and doesn’t allow for loopholes or the next best thing, then Gregorian chant is an endangered species.

Also, learning a new Mass setting that is like the previous ones isn’t too hard. Learning Gregorian chant isn’t too hard to do either, but it is very different from what we’ve been doing for the last several decades. Learning another notation style (neumes) and singing style (no vibrato, singing una voce, among other things) is quite an undertaking – even for trained musicians. Of course, Gregorian chant can be written in standard notation, but you lose a lot.

Gregorian chant is a capella (though some use organ with it). If you went this route, you would have to dismiss all the instrumentalists from the choir(s). This would not go well in any parish. My parish doesn’t even have a competent organist, though we have plenty of accomplished pianists.

btw, I’m not a choir director, but I’ve been in choirs and have run a schola. I’ve noticed that if you are not in the Music Ministry, then it is very difficult to change things (it’s still difficult when in it). Complaining from the pews isn’t enough.
 
Love_Divine said:
If it’s so terrible, and everyone agrees it’s terrible, then why not just learn the old the Latin chants and use Gregorian Chant instead? Really, it makes no sense to me. Both the choir and the congregation has to learn new music anyway, and I’m sure there are some people who at the very least kinda sorta remember the Latin chants, which is more than what can be said about the new Mass settings, so why not just use Latin???:confused:
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I’'d have no problem with the Latin, I still remember a grade 9 student chanting all the responses at daily morning Mass, lo so many years ago, and if they used the Jubilate Deo book it wouldn’t cost us anything except the paper and the ink to put a hymnal in everyone’s hands.

Of course they could also use the ICEL chant setting. It’s much better than the 3 settings commissioned by the CCCB and a heck of a lot easier to sing.
 
ProVobis said:
It’s not like they haven’t tried.

adoremus.org/JubilateDeo.html
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The loopholes were already in place by time that came out – and in such a short time Gregorian chant had already been forgotten by the faithful. 1974!

I’m a convert and had to learn it from scratch. I could scarcely find anyone under 60 who knew anything in Jubilate Deo, except for maybe the Agnus Dei.

btw, Jubilate Deo is a wonderful resource for folks who wish to learn Gregorian chant. With just a bit of basic instruction on how to read the neumes, one can be up and singing in no time (especially since youtubers have put up chants too). Just don’t expect to sing it at Mass anytime soon.
 
Phemie said:
I’'d have no problem with the Latin, I still remember a grade 9 student chanting all the responses at daily morning Mass, lo so many years ago, and if they used the Jubilate Deo book it wouldn’t cost us anything except the paper and the ink to put a hymnal in everyone’s hands.

Of course they could also use the ICEL chant setting. It’s much better than the 3 settings commissioned by the CCCB and a heck of a lot easier to sing.
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The money has already been spent on the new hymnals. It was spent quite a while ago. Most parishes are locked into a system with a publisher, and they won’t give up that relationship anytime soon – especially not by Advent 2011. This has been in the works for quite a while now. We are all a day late and a dollar short. Several days and several dollars. 😛

Also, just handing out “paper and ink” copies of Jubilate Deo aren’t a long-term solution for a parish. They would quickly degenerate, be torn, etc and have to be constantly replaced.
 
I_Thirst said:
The money has already been spent on the new hymnals. It was spent quite a while ago. Most parishes are locked into a system with a publisher, and they won’t give up that relationship anytime soon – especially not by Advent 2011. This has been in the works for quite a while now. We are all a day late and a dollar short. Several days and several dollars. 😛

Also, just handing out “paper and ink” copies of Jubilate Deo aren’t a long-term solution for a parish. They would quickly degenerate, be torn, etc and have to be constantly replaced.
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The OP is in Canada and here I see more CBWIIIs in the pews than any other things. The official settings for Canada are in the official supplement to the CBWIII “Celebrate in Song” published by the CCCB.
 
TrueLight said:
This mass is gorgeous!

Any idea which is the Kyrie that is sung here?

I’m making it my personal goal to learn the Kyriale. 🙂
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And if you had started at the very beginning, you would know this Kyrie.

Hope that’s all the hint you need!
 
Phemie said:
The OP is in Canada and here I see more CBWIIIs in the pews than any other things. The official settings for Canada are in the official supplement to the CBWIII “Celebrate in Song” published by the CCCB.
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Ok.

I’m not familar with Canadian practices or settings. Are those hymnals full of Gregorian chant?
 
MarkThompson said:
And if you had started at the very beginning, you would know this Kyrie.

Hope that’s all the hint you need!
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Kyrie I. Yay! Thank you!

Where have you been anyway? i was just going to check if you were banned as every time I notice that someone hadn’t posted in a while, they’ve been banned 😦
 
Little trivia note; the current Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (aka the role that Benedict had before coming Pope) is Cardinal William Levada. He was also the Chair of OCP for some time, and is still on their Board of Directors.
 
TrueLight said:
Kyrie I. Yay! Thank you!

Where have you been anyway? i was just going to check if you were banned as every time I notice that someone hadn’t posted in a while, they’ve been banned 😦
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Threads have all been boring recently.🤷
 
Love_Divine said:
If it’s so terrible, and everyone agrees it’s terrible, then why not just learn the old the Latin chants and use Gregorian Chant instead? Really, it makes no sense to me. Both the choir and the congregation has to learn new music anyway, and I’m sure there are some people who at the very least kinda sorta remember the Latin chants, which is more than what can be said about the new Mass settings, so why not just use Latin???:confused:
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what are they complaining about
 
I_Thirst said:
Ok.

I’m not familar with Canadian practices or settings. Are those hymnals full of Gregorian chant?
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Riiiight. :rotfl:

No, CBW III is published by the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops and contains hymns from many sources, some traditional, some GIA, some OCP, some St. Louis Jesuits, etc, etc. It’s why the CBW III cannot be exported to the US for use there, copyright restrictions. It only contains a sprinkling of Latin: a few Latin settings of the Ordinary of the Mass, (haven’t really compared them with those included in Jubilate Deo, but I suspect they’ve used some of those), Tantum Ergo, Adeste Fideles, etc. In the supplement there is not one Latin piece.

The supplement has the Mass in the new translation, 4 Mass settings, including the ICEL chants, 40 hymns new to us (including Haas, Haugen, Farrell, Joncas, Schutte, et al)

I’ve been in parishes that use Glory and Praise along with the CBWIII but not that many. They are not locked in to publishers as parishes south of the border seem to be.
 
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