Question for Lutherans

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Picky, if the Catholic Church does not change her dogmas, which she has never done, and will never do, how do you envision repair happening? What caused the Reformation, is still what separates us.
First I’ll leave aside if I may the question of which dogmas might be considered fatal to unity, and to what extent dogma has proved immutable — two subjects on which I have opinions which I shall not rehearse here, and which in any case are not informed by great knowledge — leaving, as I say, those questions aside I would reply that the answer is obvious: it may be that full repair will never be effected, but we can be sure that any improvements will come from the normal processes of reconciliation. Those are honest dialogue and a desire each to understand and embrace the other. Christians might well hope that they are particularly well placed to exercise understanding and love.

It may well take many lifetimes, but we have in my own lifetime seen the revolution in the attitude of different parts of the Church to each other, a revolution in which Don Ruggero has, it seems, played a full part and of which the commemoration he describes is one of the results.
 
There are three passages in From Conflict to Communion that I think speak very eloquently to many points being discussed on the Catholic Answers Forum but is being done by people who clearly are not theologians, not ecumenists, not ecclesiologists and not acquainted with the workings of the Curia. What is expressed in so many posts is absolutely alien to the mind of the Holy See in 2016…and the concerns of the Holy See:
(all emphasis mine)

Pope Francis feast of Peter and Paul

"A Mother who gives us the faith, a Mother who gives us an identity. But the Christian identity is not an identity card: Christian identity is belonging to the Church, because all of these belonged to the Church, the Mother Church. Because it is not possible to find Jesus outside the Church. The great Paul VI said: *“Wanting to live with Jesus without the Church, following Jesus outside of the Church, loving Jesus without the Church is an absurd dichotomy.” **And the Mother Church that gives us Jesus gives us our identity that is not only a seal, it is a belonging. Identity means belonging. *This belonging to the Church is beautiful………Think of this Mother Church that grows, grows with new children to whom She gives the identity of the faith, because you cannot believe in Jesus without the Church. Jesus Himself says in the Gospel: " But you do not believe, because you are not among my sheep." If we are not “sheep of Jesus,” faith does not come to us. It is a rosewater faith, a faith without substance. And let us think of the consolation that Barnabas felt, which is “the sweet and comforting joy of evangelizing.” And let us ask the Lord for this “parresia”, this apostolic fervor that impels us to move forward, as brothers, all of us forward! Forward, bringing the name of Jesus in the bosom of Holy Mother Church, and, as St. Ignatius said, “hierarchical and Catholic.” So be it."
news.va/en/news/pope-mass-on-feast-of-st-george-full-text

Strong’s Number: 3954 Browse Lexicon** Original Word**** Word Origin** parresia from (3956) and a derivative of (4483)** Transliterated Word**** TDNT** Entry Parrhesia 5:871,794Phonetic Spelling**** Parts of Speech* par-rhay-see’-ah* Noun Feminine Definition

  1. *] freedom in speaking, unreservedness in speech

    1. *] openly, frankly, i.e without concealment
      *] without ambiguity or circumlocution
      *] without the use of figures and comparisons

      *] free and fearless confidence, cheerful courage, boldness, assurance
      *] the deportment by which one becomes conspicuous or secures publicity

      NAS Word Usage - Total: 31, boldness 4, boldness in…speech 1, confidence 13, confidently 1, openly 2, openness 1, plainly 5, public 1, publicly 3
 
Good news: Bob’s Discount Donut and Foursquare Church just opened up 4.27 furlongs down the road.

So the number is now between 30,001 and 40,001 Protestant churches. Please adjust accordingly.
 
Good news: Bob’s Discount Donut and Foursquare Church just opened up 4.27 furlongs down the road.

So the number is now between 30,001 and 40,001 Protestant churches. Please adjust accordingly.
It’s not funny, it’s really tragic. Jesus prayed that we would all be One. God Bless, Memaw
 
I can say that the Holy Father will have extraordinary things to say about Martin Luther and the Reformation – and how it is re-assessed and to be seen by us int he 21st century – throughout the year long commemoration of the Reformation’s milestone anniversary, which Roman Catholics will be observing between October 31, 2016 and October 31, 2017.

Every Catholic should read – and rejoice in – From Conflict to Communion.
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/lutheran-fed-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_2013_dal-conflitto-alla-comunione_en.html
I’m hoping Pope Francis will also say some extraordinary things about Leo X.
 
There are three passages in From Conflict to Communion that I think speak very eloquently to many points being discussed on the Catholic Answers Forum but is being done by people who clearly are not theologians, not ecumenists, not ecclesiologists and not acquainted with the workings of the Curia. What is expressed in so many posts is absolutely alien to the mind of the Holy See in 2016…and the concerns of the Holy See:
In the last century, Christianity has become increasingly global. There are today Christians of various confessions throughout the whole world; the number of Christians in the South is growing, while the number of Christians in the North is shrinking. The churches of the South are continually assuming a greater importance within worldwide Christianity. These churches do not easily see the confessional conflicts of the sixteenth century as their own conflicts, even if they are connected to the churches of Europe and North America through various Christian world communions and share with them a common doctrinal basis. With regard to the year 2017, it will be very important to take seriously the contributions, questions, and perspectives of these churches.
And
*Today we are able to tell the story of the Lutheran Reformation together. Even though Lutherans and Catholics have different points of view, because of ecumenical dialogue they are able to overcome traditional anti-Protestant and anti-Catholic hermeneutics in order to find a common way of remembering past events. The following chapter is not a full description of the entire history and all the disputed theological points. It highlights only some of the most important historical situations and theological issues of the Reformation in the sixteenth century. *
The above passage actually is the Holy See addressing the world…Catholics, Lutherans, and others who derive from the Reformation…and is a far more interesting and thoughtful presentation than what I read from what I take are predominantly American Catholics participating on the Catholic Answers Forum; such would do well to leave behind the sixteenth century as the rest of the world has.

Finally:

Catholics and Lutherans realize that they and the communities in which they live out their faith belong to the one body of Christ. The awareness is dawning on Lutherans and Catholics that the struggle of the sixteenth century is over. The reasons for mutually condemning each other’s faith have fallen by the wayside.
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/lutheran-fed-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_2013_dal-conflitto-alla-comunione_en.html

To be perfectly frank, there are people making arguments on this thread, thinking they are being faithful to the Catholic Church but are very far from it and are in danger of finding themselves having decisions made and announced – such as being directed that you WILL commemorate the Reformation between October 31, 2016, and October 31, 2017 – that may take you quite unaware…until the directive overtakes you, that is.

Since we are Catholic, we will of course follow without reserve the Successor of Saint Peter in what he directs concerning our commemorations, as Catholics, of the Reformation…globally and each in our own diocese, under the diocesan bishop who has already received the essential communications about these observances.
Father, do you think what Archbishop Lefebvre did was wrong?
 
It’s very funny, mocking that false statistic for one reason
I agree it’s false. The question is, should a church whose congregation is answerable only to themselves or their pastor, be counted as a separate denomination? If no, why not? If yes, the the number is probably 10x the 30,000 number.
 
I agree it’s false. The question is, should a church whose congregation is answerable only to themselves or their pastor, be counted as a separate denomination? If no, why not? If yes, the the number is probably 10x the 30,000 number.
With this whole 30,000/40,000 number business about the Protestant denominations/sects, I remember listening to EWTN on my way home from work about this exact thing. I wish I had stayed in my car for the rest of the talk 😛

You bring up a good point Duane. With churches like the Roman Catholics, Lutherans, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, et al., they have their own intricate governing system (and the ones I’ve mentioned are liturgical.) But what about the others? Do we clump up those little country churches and those tiny congregations into one super category: Non-Denominational/Protestant?
 
Father, do you think what Archbishop Lefebvre did was wrong?
The answer to your question would span an era from 1969 to 1991. I don’t consider Marcel Lefebvre to be worth the time and effort it would take me.

The statements of Blessed Paul VI and Saint John Paul II against Lefebvre are quite sufficient.

I will say that I personally had some modicum of sympathy for him after the Council, primarily on account of his work in Africa. That he was rejected by his own Congregation was, I know, painful. Clearly the Holy Ghost Fathers have been proven right for what they did, actually, but such a personal rejection could be nothing but trying.

While I sought to be understanding concerning those years just after the Council, I have no sympathy given what he did and how he behaved from 1975 forward. It is inexcusable.
 
I’m hoping Pope Francis will also say some extraordinary things about Leo X.
There is an expression in English…“Be careful what you wish for…you may get it.”

Extraordinary is a most apt word for the year long commemoration and what will occur.
 
The answer to your question would span an era from 1969 to 1991. I don’t consider Marcel Lefebvre to be worth the time and effort it would take me.

The statements of Blessed Paul VI and Saint John Paul II against Lefebvre are quite sufficient.

I will say that I personally had some modicum of sympathy for him after the Council, primarily on account of his work in Africa. That he was rejected by his own Congregation was, I know, painful. Clearly the Holy Ghost Fathers have been proven right for what they did, actually, but such a personal rejection could be nothing but trying.

While I sought to be understanding concerning those years just after the Council, I have no sympathy given what he did and how he behaved from 1975 forward. It is inexcusable.
Thanks for your answer.

Father, at the end of the day, do you think what Martin Luther did was wrong?
 
“It is a test of good religion whether you can joke about it.” -G.K Chesterton
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StGeorgesSquire:
ALL THINGS CONSIDERED, 1st British edition, 1908, p. 203. Originally published as “Spiritualism and Frivolity”, part of a two part column in THE ILLUSTRATED LONDON NEWS, 9 June 1906,
 
I agree it’s false. The question is, should a church whose congregation is answerable only to themselves or their pastor, be counted as a separate denomination? If no, why not? If yes, the the number is probably 10x the 30,000 number.
As I said, I think, in the scheme that the source (as we suppose it is) counts things, I think it would count, once.

I am for using “50,000, or some other number unknown”, in places where one is currently tempted to use “30-40 thousand”.
 
“It is a test of good religion whether you can joke about it.” -G.K Chesterton

ALL THINGS CONSIDERED, 1st British edition, 1908, p. 203. Originally published as “Spiritualism and Frivolity”, part of a two part column in THE ILLUSTRATED LONDON NEWS, 9 June 1906,
Funny, I was going to joke about how I was going to commemorate the Reformation, but I thought only a few people would laugh, so I filed my little laugh in the netherworld.
 
Funny, I was going to joke about how I was going to commemorate the Reformation, but I thought only a few people would laugh, so I filed my little laugh in the netherworld.
Fire away. Chesterton would approve. If the joke be a good one.
 
There is an expression in English…“Be careful what you wish for…you may get it.”

Extraordinary is a most apt word for the year long commemoration and what will occur.
Father, will you answer my question on Luther?
 
In any case, plumping for 30k or 40k or whatever has only rhetorical value: it is the truth that there has been much splintering of that organisation which would once have been considered a monolith — the Western Church. Perhaps it would be sensible to drop the claims about just how many thousand, which has little relevance outside point scoring, and let any debate proceed on the basis that the Western Church has splintered, or has been splintered, into many parts, and that this splintering is by many — most, possibly — considered unfortunate and in need of repair. (And then, repair: how to achieve, etc.).
Has the prescribed cure by the many “doctors” been worse for the patient than the illness? 🙂
 
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