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MaryT777
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I was wondering about that too. I have never heard of the “gifts of the Reformation.”
After all Luther was excommunicated.
Mary.
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After all Luther was excommunicated.
Mary.
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Don_Ruggero
Guest
You know rather than my doing that…why don’t you find them where they are well explained and in context in the document which emerges from the work of Gerhard Cardinal Müller, Kurt Cardinal Koch and Bishop Karlheinz Diez.
In that way, it is not me you are engaged with – it is Pope Francis (since the authority of Vatican Dicasteries is a derivative of the Holy Father’s authority of governance) as well as the current Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and the President of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity.
After all, they are figures which brook no argument for a faithful Catholic…and both men were brought to Rome by Pope Benedict as the document was being finalised and published by the Holy See.
You will find From Conflict to Communion very conveniently published by the Holy See on their website – so that all Catholics may become familiar with it before the year-long commemorations begin.
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/lutheran-fed-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_2013_dal-conflitto-alla-comunione_en.html
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Don_Ruggero
Guest
The website for the opening event during the Pope’s apostolic visit to Sweden for the year-long commemoration has now become active and will be updated with information as the date draws nearer. People may signup to be informed of the latest news surrounding this historic event.
www.lund2016.net
Bishop Anders Arborelius of the Catholic Diocese of Stockholm adds, “History will be written when Pope Francis and the LWF leaders visit Lund and Malmö to encourage all of us to go further on the road towards Christian unity.”
www.lund2016.net
Bishop Anders Arborelius of the Catholic Diocese of Stockholm adds, “History will be written when Pope Francis and the LWF leaders visit Lund and Malmö to encourage all of us to go further on the road towards Christian unity.”
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Don_Ruggero
Guest
Actually, since you are American, I share with you this lovely letter from Seán Cardinal O’Malley. In America, he relates, the observance of the Reformation anniversary will span two years.
*JOINT LETTER
November 1, 2015
All Saints Day
Dear Sisters and Brothers in Christ:
It is with joy and gratitude that together we greet you in the name of the One who is our life and our salvation, Jesus Christ. In 1979, our predecessors sent a Pastoral Letter to all our parishes encouraging a joint observance of the 450th anniversary of the Augsburg Confession, the basic theological document of the 16th-century reform movement. In our own day, Roman Catholic and Lutheran descendants of the 16th-century Church together have continued to be moved by the Holy Spirit, including through the witness of the Second Vatican Council, to recognize the Lord’s desire that both communions affirm the apostolic faith and seek the healing of the separation that resulted from the Reformation.
Our common ground lies in the life-giving Trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We share one baptism into Jesus Christ Our Lord and Savior. The Reformation was concerned with what matters most to each of us today, our relationship with God and our eternal destiny. After four decades of Lutheran/Roman Catholic dialogue, in the United States and globally, on October 31, 1999, the Roman Catholic Church and the Lutheran World Federation signed a Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification, agreeing to a consensus on the central dividing issue of the Reformation. “Together we confess: By grace alone, in faith in Christ’s saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works.”
Building on this common ground, we seek to witness together to the world. One aspect of this witness is in caring for God’s good creation. Pope Francis’ encyclical On Care for Our Common Home provides a timely opportunity for Lutherans, Roman Catholics, and all our ecumenical partners to gather in small groups to read and discuss it together in an atmosphere of prayer and common faith. We encourage all to do so. Such a time of study, prayer, and ecumenical fellowship will serve as a worthy preparation for our mutual observance of the 500th anniversary of the Reformation in 2017.
Plans are in process for other ways to commemorate the many gifts in the churches of the Reformation as well as opportunities for mutual repentance in order to reconcile our division. A joint Liturgy of Word and Prayer will be celebrated at a time and venue to be announced. A list of service projects, study guides, and events in the arts and academia will provide opportunities to participate in the worldwide observance.
As we proceed toward this observance, we give thanks for our mutual baptism into Christ Jesus and our irrevocable commitment to full visible unity. For this we must all work and pray.
May the reconciling grace that is God’s gift to us in Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit be reflected in our common life together as we proclaim Christ crucified and risen for the life of the world!
Cardinal Seán P. O’Malley
Archbishop of Boston
Bishop James Hazelwood
New England Synod
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America*
The website is not active yet but I understand it soon will be and will be a model for every diocese in the United States.
*On the 500th Anniversary of the Reformation
Nov. 12, 2015
Coming soon the link to the official website of the anniversary. Check back often as **this website is the home of the growing two-year observance *with new information and voices joining throughout.
bostoncatholic.org/nelutheransynod500th/
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Duane1966
Guest
Thanks for your reply. Here are some gifts that I have found.
Will post more gifts as I open them.
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Duane1966
Guest
Another generalization of the many gifts without ever naming one. Is there truly even one real gift of the Reformation that was not present in the Church before?
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Don_Ruggero
Guest
You needn’t worry…they will be named. In a very special and appropriate moment.
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Duane1966
Guest
I pray to God that you are right.
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Don_Ruggero
Guest
I post a gift for you…a speech of Pope Benedict you evoked. It speaks of thoughts TODAY – as opposed to those of an era to be left behind. World Youth Day in Köln 2005
*/…/
I would like now to express **the joy I feel on the occasion of my Visit to Germany, in being able to meet you and offer a warm greeting to you, the Representatives of the other Churches and Ecclesial Communities
As a native of this Country, I am quite aware of the painful situation which the rupture of unity in the profession of the faith has entailed for so many individuals and families. This was one of the reasons why, immediately following my election as Bishop of Rome, I declared, as the Successor of the Apostle Peter, my firm commitment to making the recovery of full and visible Christian unity a priority of my Pontificate**.
In doing so, I wished consciously to follow in the footsteps of two of my great Predecessors: Pope Paul VI, who over 40 years ago signed the conciliar Decree on Ecumenism Unitatis Redintegratio, and Pope John Paul II, who made that Document the inspiration for his activity
In ecumenical dialogue Germany without a doubt has a place of particular importance. We are the Country where the Reformation began; however, Germany is also one of the countries where the ecumenical movement of the 20th century originated /…/
Together we can rejoice in the fact that the dialogue, with the passage of time, has brought about a renewed sense of our brotherhood and has created a more open and trusting climate between Christians belonging to the various Churches and Ecclesial Communities
I feel the fact that we consider one another brothers and sisters, that we love one another, that together we are witnesses of Jesus Christ, should not be taken so much for granted. I believe that this brotherhood is in itself a very important fruit of dialogue that we must rejoice in, continue to foster and to practice
Among Christians, fraternity is not just a vague sentiment, nor is it a sign of indifference to truth. As you just said, Bishop, it is grounded in the supernatural reality of the one Baptism which makes us all members of the one Body of Christ
**Together we confess that Jesus Christ is God and Lord; together we acknowledge him as the one mediator between God and man, and we emphasize that together we are members of his Body ** /…/
I would like to mention the re-examination of the mutual condemnations, called for by John Paul II during his first Visit to Germany. /…/
That colloquium gave rise to an episcopal, that is, a Church commission, under ecclesial responsibility.** Finally, with the contribution of theologians it led to the important Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification (1999) and to an agreement on basic issues that had been a subject of controversy since the 16th century** /…/
I am well aware that many Christians in Germany, and not only in this Country, expect further concrete steps to bring us closer together. I myself have the same expectation
It is the Lord’s commandment, but also the imperative of the present hour, to carry on dialogue with conviction at all levels of the Church’s life /…/
It is said that following the clarification regarding the Doctrine of Justification, the elaboration of ecclesiological issues and the questions concerning ministry are the main obstacles still to be overcome. In short, this is true, but I must also say that I dislike this terminology, which from a certain point of view delimits the problem since it seems that we must now debate about institutions instead of the Word of God, as though we had to place our institutions in the centre and fight for them. I think that in this way the ecclesiological issue as well as that of the “Ministerium” are not dealt with correctly
The real question is the presence of the Word in the world. /…/
Our divisions are contrary to the will of Jesus and they disappoint peoples’ expectations. I think that we must work with new energy and dedication to bring a common witness into the context of these great ethical challenges of our time /…/
On the other hand, this unity does not mean what could be called ecumenism of the return: that is, to deny and to reject one’s own faith history. Absolutely not!
It does not mean uniformity in all expressions of theology and spirituality, in liturgical forms and in discipline. Unity in multiplicity, and multiplicity in unity /…/
To this end, dialogue has its own contribution to make. More than an exchange of thoughts, an academic exercise, it is an exchange of gifts, in which the Churches and the Ecclesial Communities can make available their own riches /…/
I see good reason in this context for optimism in the fact that today a kind of “network” of spiritual links is developing between Catholics and Christians from the different Churches and Ecclesial Communities: each individual commits himself to prayer, to the examination of his own life, to the purification of memory, to the openness of charity
The father of spiritual ecumenism, Paul Couturier, spoke in this regard of an “invisible cloister” which unites within its walls those souls inflamed with love for Christ and his Church. I am convinced that if more and more people unite themselves interiorly to the Lord’s prayer “that all may be one”, then this prayer, made in the Name of Jesus, will not go unheard
With the help that comes from on high, we will also find practical solutions to the different questions which remain open, and in the end our desire for unity will come to fulfilment, whenever and however the Lord wills
Now let us all go along this path in the awareness that walking together is a form of unity. Let us thank God for this and pray that he will continue to guide us all*
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Don_Ruggero
Guest
It is important to stress again what Pope Francis said in April. He was speaking to the Methodists but it applies to the Lutherans.
Catholics and Methodists have much to learn from one another in how we understand holiness and how it can be lived out.
It is therefore wholly wrong to speak as if we who are Catholic have nothing to learn from others and as if they have only to learn from us. This mindset was rejected long ago. Nothing can be further from either the truth or from the mind of Rome and how Catholics are to view matters. Again, we are not living 75, 100, or 300 years ago. The ways of past eras are past. We live in the aftermath of one of the Church’s greatest events in her entire history: Vatican II
As we read in From Conflict to Communion:
*90. While the Council of Trent largely defined Catholic relations with Lutherans for several centuries, its legacy must now be viewed through the lens of the actions of the Second Vatican Council (1962–1965). This Council made it possible for the Catholic Church to enter the ecumenical movement and leave behind the charged polemic atmosphere of the post-Reformation era. The Dogmatic Constitution on the Church (Lumen Gentium), the Decree on Ecumenism (Unitatis Redintegratio), the Declaration on Religious Freedom (Dignitatis Humanae), and the Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation (Dei Verbum) are foundational documents for Catholic ecumenism. Vatican II, while affirming that the Church of Christ subsists in the Catholic Church, also acknowledged, “many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure. These elements, as gifts belonging to the Church of Christ, are forces impelling toward catholic unity” (LG 8). There was a positive appreciation of what Catholics share with other Christian churches such as the creeds, baptism, and the Scriptures. A theology of ecclesial communion affirmed that Catholics are in a real, if imperfect, communion with all who confess Jesus Christ and are baptized (UR 2). *
The new ecclesiology to emerge from Vatican II, with its emphasis on the theology of koinonia, is a great gift for us in the 21st century.
Even more than the passages you reference in the Catechism, (name removed by moderator), are the clear mandates and directives of Unitatis Redintegratio:
*4. Today, in many parts of the world, under the inspiring grace of the Holy Spirit, many efforts are being made in prayer, word and action to attain that fullness of unity which Jesus Christ desires. The Sacred Council exhorts all the Catholic faithful to recognize the signs of the times and to take an active and intelligent part in the work of ecumenism.
The term “ecumenical movement” indicates the initiatives and activities planned and undertaken, according to the various needs of the Church and as opportunities offer, to promote Christian unity. These are: first, every effort to avoid expressions, judgments and actions which do not represent the condition of our separated brethren with truth and fairness and so make mutual relations with them more difficult; then, “dialogue” between competent experts from different Churches and Communities. At these meetings, which are organized in a religious spirit, each explains the teaching of his Communion in greater depth and brings out clearly its distinctive features. In such dialogue, everyone gains a truer knowledge and more just appreciation of the teaching and religious life of both Communions. In addition, the way is prepared for cooperation between them in the duties for the common good of humanity which are demanded by every Christian conscience; and, wherever this is allowed, there is prayer in common. Finally, all are led to examine their own faithfulness to Christ’s will for the Church and accordingly to undertake with vigor the task of renewal and reform.
When such actions are undertaken prudently and patiently by the Catholic faithful, with the attentive guidance of their bishops, they promote justice and truth, concord and collaboration, as well as the spirit of brotherly love and unity.*
In other words, expressions such as “revolt” are to be stricken from the vocabularies of anyone trying to represent a Catholic position – because such terms are repudiated today. Such words and terms are not expressive of the Council Fathers, of the Holy See, or the attentive guidance that the bishops are providing on what terms may and may not be used.
As Pope Benedict said, the policy of Rome is that “this unity does not mean what could be called ecumenism of the return: that is, to deny and to reject one’s own faith history. Absolutely not!”
Pope Francis will carry this thought further as we actually undertake precisely as the Roman Catholic Church under the Successor of Peter the commemoration of the anniversary of the Reformation and the re-telling of the history in new ways, thanks to contemporary theologians and contemporary historians.
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mattp0625
Guest
Excellent, Father, I learned something new there. Thank you.
Nevertheless, we do know the origins of our church and the office of the episcopate which, in terms of apostolic succession, is a permanent office originated with Peter.
I admire the ecumenical efforts here. Even so, I cannot see where this claim to apostolic succession- as an enduring permanent office - comes from, especially given the forcible takeovers.
What I have seen evidence of is Johannes Bugenhagen, called “the apostle of the north”, installing new priestly orders for Luther (with military backing) and receiving a university promotion for his efforts.
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Don_Ruggero
Guest
No. You’re over-emphasising the role of Peter. It is not that everything rests upon Peter but that the Successor of Peter has a unique and singular role in the College of Bishops.
The Petrine ministry is from the Lord…but the Apostles also are from the Lord…not from Peter.
Vatican II was a corrective to an over emphasis by Vatican I on the Petrine Ministry that introduced a disequilibrium that the Council Fathers at Vatican II went to great pains to correct. Thus we read in Lumen Gentium, Chapter 3:
*This Sacred Council, following closely in the footsteps of the First Vatican Council, with that Council teaches and declares that Jesus Christ, the eternal Shepherd, established His holy Church, having sent forth the apostles as He Himself had been sent by the Father; and He willed that their successors, namely the bishops, should be shepherds in His Church even to the consummation of the world. And in order that the episcopate itself might be one and undivided, He placed Blessed Peter over the other apostles, and instituted in him a permanent and visible source and foundation of unity of faith and communion. And all this teaching about the institution, the perpetuity, the meaning and reason for the sacred primacy of the Roman Pontiff and of his infallible magisterium, this Sacred Council again proposes to be firmly believed by all the faithful. Continuing in that same undertaking, this Council is resolved to declare and proclaim before all men the doctrine concerning bishops, the successors of the apostles, who together with the successor of Peter, the Vicar of Christ, the visible Head of the whole Church, govern the house of the living God.
- The Lord Jesus, after praying to the Father, calling to Himself those whom He desired, appointed twelve to be with Him, and whom He would send to preach the Kingdom of God; **and these apostles He formed after the manner of a college **or a stable group, over which He placed Peter chosen from among them. He sent them first to the children of Israel and then to all nations, so that as sharers in His power they might make all peoples His disciples, and sanctify and govern them, and thus spread His Church, and by ministering to it under the guidance of the Lord, direct it all days even to the consummation of the world. And in this mission they were fully confirmed on the day of Pentecost in accordance with the Lord’s promise: “You shall receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you shall be witnesses for me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and in Samaria, and even to the very ends of the earth”. And the apostles, by preaching the Gospel everywhere, and it being accepted by their hearers under the influence of the Holy Spirit, gather together the universal Church, which the Lord established on the apostles and built upon blessed Peter, their chief, Christ Jesus Himself being the supreme cornerstone.
- That divine mission, entrusted by Christ to the apostles, will last until the end of the world, since the Gospel they are to teach is for all time the source of all life for the Church. And for this reason** the apostles, appointed as rulers in this society, took care to appoint successors**.
Bishops, therefore, with their helpers, the priests and deacons, have taken up the service of the community, presiding in place of God over the flock, whose shepherds they are, as teachers for doctrine, priests for sacred worship, and ministers for governing. And just as the office granted individually to Peter, the first among the apostles, is permanent and is to be transmitted to his successors, so also the apostles’ office of nurturing the Church is permanent, and is to be exercised without interruption by the sacred order of bishops. Therefore, the Sacred Council teaches that bishops by divine institution have succeeded to the place of the apostles, as shepherds of the Church /…/
For the discharging of such great duties, the apostles were enriched by Christ with a special outpouring of the Holy Spirit coming upon them, and they passed on this spiritual gift to their helpers by the imposition of hands, and it has been transmitted down to us in Episcopal consecration. And the Sacred Council teaches that by Episcopal consecration the fullness of the sacrament of Orders is conferred, that fullness of power, namely, which both in the Church’s liturgical practice and in the language of the Fathers of the Church is called the high priesthood, the supreme power of the sacred ministry.
*
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Picky_Picky
Guest
Catholics usually, I think, speak of apostolic succession the way Fr Don Ruggero does: the passing of orders by the laying on of hands through the history of the Church from the apostles. As he says, that cannot be proven in total by documentary evidence, but is to be accepted in faith as a teaching of the Church.
You are referring to something else, apostolic succession in a sense frequently used by non-Catholics: the continuous presence of bishops in a see from its foundation. Sweden can provide evidence of succession in this sense — for instance in the ancient diocese of Skara from the 11th Century. Of course there have been what one might politely call incidents on the way — but then the see of Rome has not been without its incidents, either, including the “Western Schism”.
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mattp0625
Guest
Right, and after schism, those churches became separated brethren that are not part of the RCC.
Semantics aside, all entities that claim apostolic succession trace their origins. None of their origins were backed by military efforts.
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mattp0625
Guest
No, churches that separated are not continuations of the same thing as the first.And the RCC churches became separated brethren and are not part of their Catholic communion.
Catholic Church of the times prior to and after the Reformation was not innocent of using civilian military power to its own benefit. Specks and planks.
Jon
The origins of the Catholic Church, and the origins of its apostolic succession, have nothing to do with military actions. It is not an honest comparison.
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Picky_Picky
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The Western Schism, if that is what you refer to, was within the RCC and later healed. The Church of Sweden traces its origins to English missionaries in the First Millenium. I am not sure why you keep introducing military efforts into the history of that church.
I don’t think they would share your perspective. What makes your perspective correct, other than the fact that you are Catholic in communion with the pope? Who says they were not first?
Of course it is an honest comparison. You brought up “military power”, and that somehow that invalidates orders. There may be some actions by the Church of Sweden that invalidates some of their orders (female bishops, for example), but this isn’t one of them.
OTOH, I guess having people burned at the stake doesn’t invalidate orders either.
My point is that the use of military power and violence has a sad and terrible place in the history of the Church. Pointing it out in one direction usually gets a response in the other.
Jon
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mattp0625
Guest
The point is that the Lutheran orders would not have existed without military support of a forcible takeover. There was not an entity called the Lutheran Church prior to these 16th century military efforts
The Catholic Church was formed with the apostles of Christ. It’s format ok did not have military backing.
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