I
IanS
Guest
What do you think of the E.L.C.A.?
Just curious. Thanks.
Just curious. Thanks.
- Status
N
Nun_ofthe_Above
Guest
**Hi Ian, 
**
Could you please elaborate a little further? Is there a particular ‘issue’ you wish to address?
As an LCA (Lutheran Church of Australia), I haven’t had any personal experience of the ELCA; although I believe from what I have read, they are a little more progressive (for want of a better word) than the LCA.
I hope you find the answers you are seeking.
Peace and love
**Could you please elaborate a little further? Is there a particular ‘issue’ you wish to address?
As an LCA (Lutheran Church of Australia), I haven’t had any personal experience of the ELCA; although I believe from what I have read, they are a little more progressive (for want of a better word) than the LCA.
I hope you find the answers you are seeking.
Peace and love
C
catsrus
Guest
I was raised and confirmed in the ELCA.
Left it when I was 18.
Seached for God for years.
Confirmed Catholic (which when I look back, I really was all my life - just didn’t know it) in 8/02.
What do I think of ELCA? It gave me a grounding in faith which God has used to take me to the highest power, Holy Mother Church.
Left it when I was 18.
Seached for God for years.
Confirmed Catholic (which when I look back, I really was all my life - just didn’t know it) in 8/02.
What do I think of ELCA? It gave me a grounding in faith which God has used to take me to the highest power, Holy Mother Church.
L
littlesheep
Guest
.
Do you mean the E ? C A ?
They are Lutheran in name only.
Now ithat is not saying that there are not Lutherans in that part of the church body. Just that they have become another anything goes denomination.
A
aria13
Guest
Ian: are you referring to the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America? I would assume so, but you know what assuming does to both parties.
littlesheep: just what did you mean by your comment?? Didn’t seem very kind to me. A little uniformed and some bashing so it seems.
IanS- I’m a member of the ELCA synod. The ELCA was formed by combining the LCA (Lutheran Church of America) and the ALC (American Lutheran Church) synods. The ALC Synod was the larger of the 2 synods, and the LCA was struggling to make ends meet. So, they combined to create the ELCA. The foundation of the ELCA is a strong Lutheran stance, built on the beliefs of the Lutheran church. They generally aren’t as conservative as the Missouri or Wisconsin synods, and they are much for the education of their children and adult members to understand other faiths and acceptance of people. They teach the background of the Lutheran Church as stemming off of the Catholic Church, but going with Luther’s beliefs that scripture and church teachings are for everyone.
What else do you want to know? I would suggest NOT going to Lutherquest for answers!! That site is a bit ODD to say the least!! Ask away and I’ll do the best I can to answer or at least find you answers.
Blessings…
littlesheep: just what did you mean by your comment?? Didn’t seem very kind to me. A little uniformed and some bashing so it seems.
IanS- I’m a member of the ELCA synod. The ELCA was formed by combining the LCA (Lutheran Church of America) and the ALC (American Lutheran Church) synods. The ALC Synod was the larger of the 2 synods, and the LCA was struggling to make ends meet. So, they combined to create the ELCA. The foundation of the ELCA is a strong Lutheran stance, built on the beliefs of the Lutheran church. They generally aren’t as conservative as the Missouri or Wisconsin synods, and they are much for the education of their children and adult members to understand other faiths and acceptance of people. They teach the background of the Lutheran Church as stemming off of the Catholic Church, but going with Luther’s beliefs that scripture and church teachings are for everyone.
What else do you want to know? I would suggest NOT going to Lutherquest for answers!! That site is a bit ODD to say the least!! Ask away and I’ll do the best I can to answer or at least find you answers.
Blessings…
I
IanS
Guest
Please don’t take this the wrong way, but this is what I’m getting at. My brother and his family go to an ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church of America) Church. A while back I was invited to a service at their church, and it seemed anything but Lutheran to me.
There were drums banging, guitars whaling, flashing lights, big jumbo screens, people waving their arms, hollering, and jumping around. There was also a baptism, again with all the special affects. I think the pastor used the words “cool” and “man” about 50 times during the baptism.
They also had communion. He held up a loaf of bread and a vase of wine (or grape juice) and quoted the Passover narrative from Matthew 26, again using words like “cool” and “man” a lot. Needless to say, I did not go up to receive, which I think they took offense too.
Also, I believe they (my brother and his wife) are getting involved with this “Prosperity Gospel” stuff along with others at their church. This is the stuff that people like Joyce Meyers and Benny Hinn are really into this and making millions.
I know it involves not speaking any negative statements such as “I am ill” or “I feel bad” because you create sickness and misery in your life by speaking these things.
It also involves the belief that God is bound by spiritual regulations which it is up to us to understand and exploit. In other words we can control God by “speaking” things (money, material goods) into existence and God must adhere to us.
I’m not saying that their church condones this, but I know they may be involved with it along with others there.
I’m sorry, but based on what little I know about Martin Luther, I just don’t see him saying “Yea, this is what I had in mind!” I know Luther was a major reformer and split away from the Church, but didn’t he also respect things like the Blessed Mother, the Saints, and the Sacraments at least somewhat?
Maybe I’m just not “cool” enough for this, but it really bothered me. I found myself wanting to scream out, “IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE!!!”
I’m also concerned because this church seems to be taking my city by storm.
There were drums banging, guitars whaling, flashing lights, big jumbo screens, people waving their arms, hollering, and jumping around. There was also a baptism, again with all the special affects. I think the pastor used the words “cool” and “man” about 50 times during the baptism.
They also had communion. He held up a loaf of bread and a vase of wine (or grape juice) and quoted the Passover narrative from Matthew 26, again using words like “cool” and “man” a lot. Needless to say, I did not go up to receive, which I think they took offense too.
Also, I believe they (my brother and his wife) are getting involved with this “Prosperity Gospel” stuff along with others at their church. This is the stuff that people like Joyce Meyers and Benny Hinn are really into this and making millions.
I know it involves not speaking any negative statements such as “I am ill” or “I feel bad” because you create sickness and misery in your life by speaking these things.
It also involves the belief that God is bound by spiritual regulations which it is up to us to understand and exploit. In other words we can control God by “speaking” things (money, material goods) into existence and God must adhere to us.
I’m not saying that their church condones this, but I know they may be involved with it along with others there.
I’m sorry, but based on what little I know about Martin Luther, I just don’t see him saying “Yea, this is what I had in mind!” I know Luther was a major reformer and split away from the Church, but didn’t he also respect things like the Blessed Mother, the Saints, and the Sacraments at least somewhat?
Maybe I’m just not “cool” enough for this, but it really bothered me. I found myself wanting to scream out, “IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE!!!”
I’m also concerned because this church seems to be taking my city by storm.
M
MartyL
Guest
I am a member of an ELCA church, and I see nothing in the church that contravenes the Book of Concord. I will note, however, that unlike the LCMS, many of its theologians will back away from the staunch position that the pope represents the anti-Christ. The ELCA is also open to less literal interpretations of the Bible than more “conservative” (I hate that term in this context) synods, but that does not mean that they are not “Lutherans.”
I’ve never heard of the “Prosperity Gospel” or anything like what you said about it, in any ELCA church I’ve attended. If fact, the ELCA recently published a very funny little book it calls, “The Lutheran Handbook.” At page 136, it dismisses “theology of glory” that uses the Cross as a path to earthly treasure. The ELCA, like every synod I know of, embraces the instead the “Theology of the Cross,” which looks to Cross as the end point of sin and the utter embrace of God’s very real love for all.
I will also point out that the Presiding Bishop of the ELCA is also the current leader of the Lutheran World Federation. That is the largest Lutheran umbrella group out there, so it is hard to conclude that the ELCA is not really Lutheran. And no, for anybody reading this, he is not the “Lutheran pope.”
I will also add that in a somewhat ironic way, it is very “Lutheran” to have services that offend you (i.e.,IanS). Because Lutherans never really wanted schism, and sought only reform of some very oppressive practices in the Catholic Church, you will find that even to this day the typical ELCA traditional church service is very similar to a plain Catholic Mass. But all of that retained tradition is there as familiar, comfortable ways of worshipping that people learn from childhood, and appreciate as they age. It IS NOT required, commanded by God, or any sort of key to justification. As the Apology of the Augsburg Confession states in one of many similar texts,“This is the simple rule for interpreting tradition. We should know that they [traditions] are not required acts of worship, and yet we should observe them in the their place and without superstition in order to avoid offense [to the Gospel and God].” AAC, Art. XXVIII (yr. 1531, translation to American English, yr. 2000). So, while it is unfortunate that you might have been offended by a less traditional service, it is clear that if this particular church is taking your “city by storm,” it is not offending a lot of other people. And … they’ll hear the Gospel in their own language. Ain’t that cool? After all, preaching the Gospel in the language of the people, is VERY Lutheran indeed.
In Christ,
MartyL
I’ve never heard of the “Prosperity Gospel” or anything like what you said about it, in any ELCA church I’ve attended. If fact, the ELCA recently published a very funny little book it calls, “The Lutheran Handbook.” At page 136, it dismisses “theology of glory” that uses the Cross as a path to earthly treasure. The ELCA, like every synod I know of, embraces the instead the “Theology of the Cross,” which looks to Cross as the end point of sin and the utter embrace of God’s very real love for all.
I will also point out that the Presiding Bishop of the ELCA is also the current leader of the Lutheran World Federation. That is the largest Lutheran umbrella group out there, so it is hard to conclude that the ELCA is not really Lutheran. And no, for anybody reading this, he is not the “Lutheran pope.”
I will also add that in a somewhat ironic way, it is very “Lutheran” to have services that offend you (i.e.,IanS). Because Lutherans never really wanted schism, and sought only reform of some very oppressive practices in the Catholic Church, you will find that even to this day the typical ELCA traditional church service is very similar to a plain Catholic Mass. But all of that retained tradition is there as familiar, comfortable ways of worshipping that people learn from childhood, and appreciate as they age. It IS NOT required, commanded by God, or any sort of key to justification. As the Apology of the Augsburg Confession states in one of many similar texts,“This is the simple rule for interpreting tradition. We should know that they [traditions] are not required acts of worship, and yet we should observe them in the their place and without superstition in order to avoid offense [to the Gospel and God].” AAC, Art. XXVIII (yr. 1531, translation to American English, yr. 2000). So, while it is unfortunate that you might have been offended by a less traditional service, it is clear that if this particular church is taking your “city by storm,” it is not offending a lot of other people. And … they’ll hear the Gospel in their own language. Ain’t that cool? After all, preaching the Gospel in the language of the people, is VERY Lutheran indeed.
In Christ,
MartyL
I
IanS
Guest
Maybe you guys need one
I’m sorry. I guess I didn’t realize that going out of your way to offend others was the “Lutheran” thing to do. Thanks for educating me.
Also, I’m not really offended as a Catholic by the ELCA, the same way I’m not offended by any other evangelical church. I’m just saying it was far from anything I imagined.
From what I can see it’s other Lutherans who are offended by the ELCA far more than any Catholics. It’s certainly no skin off our noses how you worship, and it’s not our name your using.
Just because something is popular with the world, that doesn’t make it right!
M
MartyL
Guest
I guess the sarcastic eye roll means that you really did not care what we thought afterall, much less understand the lead-in sentence of the full paragraph. The point is that Lutherans embrace traditional forms of worship, but don’t consider it holy, and will not let it hide the message of the Gospel. I even said that it was unfortunate that you might have been offended. Sorry for engaging in dialogue with you. It won’t happen again.I’m sorry. I guess I didn’t realize that going out of your way to offend others was the “Lutheran” thing to do. Thanks for educating me.
I
IanS
Guest
What lead-in sentence are you talking about? I was referring to the first sentence of the paragraph.
If it’s not holy, why would you embrace it as a part of your worship of almighty God?
What exactly is hiding the message of the gospel?
A
aria13
Guest
IanS: Is this the only style of worship that is offered at your brother’s church? This seems to me to be a very contemporary worship service. You should look further into the worship schedules to see if they also offer a more conservative, “typical” liturgical Lutheran worship. If this church is growing by leaps and bounds as you suggest, they are probably attempting to cater to all people. If this is the style of worship that your brother’s family enjoys, and this brings them the Gospel message, and they receive Holy Communion…which you chose to not take, and they are truly blessed by this, who are you to question? Did you ask THEM how they feel? Why didn’t you take Communion? It was, I’m sure open commuion, open to all believers in Christ, unlike the Catholic Church, which I still feel is very unChristlike. Anyway, did you not take Communion because you were offended by the language the pastor was using, the music, the style of worship? or were you making a statement. (the bread was blessed, and many churches now use unleavened bread…more Last Supper like, not the little flat hosts, that crunch and kind of taste like cardboard…not to offend, just saying what they look and taste like. And the wine was not in a vase, I’m sure. A carafe, possibly, before it was poured into a chalice or small individual glasses. Probably purchased at the same religious stores that the Catholic Church gets theirs.) Ian, I just hope you talk to your family about this so you can clear this up about your feelings. See if they will go to a more traditional service next time you visit.
The Lutheran Churches have tried and are still trying many different styles of worship to include all people. They understand that not all people like the musical styles of Bach and Handel, nor folk services, nor rock. They want to include everyone in worship. They have children’s services, and youth services, and include the children and youth in them…and no one is offended! Children can sing in a choir in FRONT OF THE CHURCH, and share the wonderful message of Christ and NO ONE GETS MAD!! Why, because it’s worship! Youth can give the message in play form, and most people aren’t upset that it wasn’t a pastor. Christ preached in many styles, and he loved children. Narrowmindedness is what rips churches apart. “Change is bad,” is heard far too often. The Lutheran church has heard it for centuries…and the Catholic Church even longer. Just because it’s old, and has been going on for a very long time, doesn’t make it right either, Ian! Look at the history of the Church, see what they had to change because it was WRONG, and then think about what you saw at church. Was it wrong or just different? Will it change after awhile? Will the pastor always be there? Don’t be so quick to judge…did you get anything positive out of the expericence?? if not, why??? Did you shut down and close yourself off from anything good happening?
I have no idea what Marty was talking about with something not being Holy. Maybe he mistyped. But the Lutheran Church hold Holy what the Catholic Chuch holds Holy. Granted, you could go to any Lutheran Church and you will find something different at each one. Just like you would when you go to a Catholic Church. You can’t judge all by one. (If I did that, I would NEVER go to Church with my “boyfriend” because of one of the small Catholic Churches here! The organist is horrid, the priests voice could take paint off walls, and it’s freezing in there in the winter and hotter than blazes in the summer!) I know they aren’t all like that…plus I know the music CAN be fun. I taught at a Catholic high school and middle school.
Work it out, Ian, with your family!! share your feelings!!
Blessings!!
The Lutheran Churches have tried and are still trying many different styles of worship to include all people. They understand that not all people like the musical styles of Bach and Handel, nor folk services, nor rock. They want to include everyone in worship. They have children’s services, and youth services, and include the children and youth in them…and no one is offended! Children can sing in a choir in FRONT OF THE CHURCH, and share the wonderful message of Christ and NO ONE GETS MAD!! Why, because it’s worship! Youth can give the message in play form, and most people aren’t upset that it wasn’t a pastor. Christ preached in many styles, and he loved children. Narrowmindedness is what rips churches apart. “Change is bad,” is heard far too often. The Lutheran church has heard it for centuries…and the Catholic Church even longer. Just because it’s old, and has been going on for a very long time, doesn’t make it right either, Ian! Look at the history of the Church, see what they had to change because it was WRONG, and then think about what you saw at church. Was it wrong or just different? Will it change after awhile? Will the pastor always be there? Don’t be so quick to judge…did you get anything positive out of the expericence?? if not, why??? Did you shut down and close yourself off from anything good happening?
I have no idea what Marty was talking about with something not being Holy. Maybe he mistyped. But the Lutheran Church hold Holy what the Catholic Chuch holds Holy. Granted, you could go to any Lutheran Church and you will find something different at each one. Just like you would when you go to a Catholic Church. You can’t judge all by one. (If I did that, I would NEVER go to Church with my “boyfriend” because of one of the small Catholic Churches here! The organist is horrid, the priests voice could take paint off walls, and it’s freezing in there in the winter and hotter than blazes in the summer!) I know they aren’t all like that…plus I know the music CAN be fun. I taught at a Catholic high school and middle school.
Work it out, Ian, with your family!! share your feelings!!
Blessings!!
I
IanS
Guest
Thanks for the response. You have a lot to say here so I will try and break it down a bit
aria13:
aria13:
aria13:
Now this goes both ways. When you go up to receive Holy Communion at a Catholic Church, the priest will hold up the consecrated host and say, “The Body of Christ”. He is telling you that in his hand is Jesus, body, blood, soul, and divinity. If you don’t think it is, why on earth would you say “Amen” or “I believe” , put it in your mouth and thus lie to yourself, the priest, and God. If you do believe it is, congratulations, you’re on your way.
aria13:
aria13:
I don’t see how a real “traditional” service is even possible. It’s just a stage with chairs. No altar, no cross, nothing.
Why do they feel the need to always be changing with the popular culture? God doesn’t change. Shouldn’t we try to please Him before we worry about what the “world” might think of us?
Communion is a lot more than just saying, “I believe in Jesus”, you are making a public statement that you are in union with he doctrine of that church. I am NOT in union with Martin Luther or the ELCA, therefore, out of respect for my Church and their Church I do not receive and avoid making a liar out of myself. By the way there were several people visiting from a non-denominational church and they also did not receive. So it’s not just some Catholic thing.
Now this goes both ways. When you go up to receive Holy Communion at a Catholic Church, the priest will hold up the consecrated host and say, “The Body of Christ”. He is telling you that in his hand is Jesus, body, blood, soul, and divinity. If you don’t think it is, why on earth would you say “Amen” or “I believe” , put it in your mouth and thus lie to yourself, the priest, and God. If you do believe it is, congratulations, you’re on your way.
So I guess you also believe that just because the Apostles who knew Jesus personally did it, that doesn’t make it right.
It had some good entertainment value, but so does just about any other show I go see.
C
ClaudineJohnson
Guest
Hi,
I just wanted to ring in on this one. I was a member of the ELCA (and it’s predecessors: ULCA & LCA) from about 1958 to 1994. During that time I was a serious Lutheran. Over several years preceeding 1994 things began taking a more liberal turn. I felt the ELCA slipping away from formerly common Christian standards and “moving with the times” – that is failing to criticize modern cultural norms such as living together, divorce and remarriage & remarriage, among other things.
I’m still in contact with my former Lutheran parish since my husband is still a member there. He doesn’t understand why I left and I don’t see how he stays. He just says he’s Lutheran, he was born Lutheran!
From my perspective the ELCA is one of several increasingly liberal Protestant denominations. I know some congregations are still rather conservative, but I don’t think the national church appreciates their stance. I think they’re waiting for them to die off. His congregation used to be conservative, but is less so now. They just got a new pastor, a woman. They would never have done that in the past, but they didn’t have any male candidates to choose from.
I just wanted to ring in on this one. I was a member of the ELCA (and it’s predecessors: ULCA & LCA) from about 1958 to 1994. During that time I was a serious Lutheran. Over several years preceeding 1994 things began taking a more liberal turn. I felt the ELCA slipping away from formerly common Christian standards and “moving with the times” – that is failing to criticize modern cultural norms such as living together, divorce and remarriage & remarriage, among other things.
I’m still in contact with my former Lutheran parish since my husband is still a member there. He doesn’t understand why I left and I don’t see how he stays. He just says he’s Lutheran, he was born Lutheran!
From my perspective the ELCA is one of several increasingly liberal Protestant denominations. I know some congregations are still rather conservative, but I don’t think the national church appreciates their stance. I think they’re waiting for them to die off. His congregation used to be conservative, but is less so now. They just got a new pastor, a woman. They would never have done that in the past, but they didn’t have any male candidates to choose from.
S
super64
Guest
Hello,
I’ve enjoyed reading these posts. As a Roman Catholic, I have a question. Today I met some very nice Lutherans, very devout and holy. One of them, at one time, had been a member of the E.L.C.A in Stillwater, MN.
He stated, that the E.L.C.A began to teach that homosexuals could become pasters and/or homosexuality was condonabl(sp) . Around 1976ish?
Is that true? (I mean is that sorta taught nationally) He and his family have since moved on to the Missouri synod. I also know E.L.C.A. members who are also very good Christians. Both seem to embrace different parts of Christ’s teachings though.
This is how you see Catholics relative to your point of view. That’s your opinion and I respect that. However, from a Catholics point, the Eucharist celebration is the most important thing we do and as such the Church has an obligation to ensure that it is not disrespected in any way. All people participating in the Eucharistic celebration most understand the Reverence needed in receiving Christ. You can not receive Christ in a state of sin. One most be cleansed of their moral sins prior to receiving the Holy Sacrament. To do other wise, is commiting a sacraliage.
(As St. Paul said, *1Co 11:26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
1Co 11:27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord.
1Co 11:28 Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
1Co 11:29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself.
1Co 11:30 That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.
1Co 11:31 But if we judged ourselves truly, we would not be judged.
1Co 11:32 But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world. * )
He goes on to say:
*2Co 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
2Co 6:15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?
2Co 6:16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2Co 6:17 Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you,
2Co 6:18 and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty.” 2Co 7:1 Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, bringing holiness to completion in the fear of God. *
The Catholic church isn’t saying you ‘can’t’, it’s asking ‘are you in communion with God’s teaching? If not, go home. Come back when you are ready to confess your sins and ask Absolution, if you are ready for penance’***
All of us need to think that over real hard and discern…‘am *I * in communion with God, his Church and his teachings?’
Peace to you
Scott
***my words not the churches
I’ve enjoyed reading these posts. As a Roman Catholic, I have a question. Today I met some very nice Lutherans, very devout and holy. One of them, at one time, had been a member of the E.L.C.A in Stillwater, MN.
He stated, that the E.L.C.A began to teach that homosexuals could become pasters and/or homosexuality was condonabl(sp) . Around 1976ish?
Is that true? (I mean is that sorta taught nationally) He and his family have since moved on to the Missouri synod. I also know E.L.C.A. members who are also very good Christians. Both seem to embrace different parts of Christ’s teachings though.
Aria13,
This is how you see Catholics relative to your point of view. That’s your opinion and I respect that. However, from a Catholics point, the Eucharist celebration is the most important thing we do and as such the Church has an obligation to ensure that it is not disrespected in any way. All people participating in the Eucharistic celebration most understand the Reverence needed in receiving Christ. You can not receive Christ in a state of sin. One most be cleansed of their moral sins prior to receiving the Holy Sacrament. To do other wise, is commiting a sacraliage.
(As St. Paul said, *1Co 11:26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
1Co 11:27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord.
1Co 11:28 Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
1Co 11:29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself.
1Co 11:30 That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.
1Co 11:31 But if we judged ourselves truly, we would not be judged.
1Co 11:32 But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world. * )
He goes on to say:
*2Co 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?
2Co 6:15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?
2Co 6:16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2Co 6:17 Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you,
2Co 6:18 and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty.” 2Co 7:1 Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, bringing holiness to completion in the fear of God. *
The Catholic church isn’t saying you ‘can’t’, it’s asking ‘are you in communion with God’s teaching? If not, go home. Come back when you are ready to confess your sins and ask Absolution, if you are ready for penance’***
All of us need to think that over real hard and discern…‘am *I * in communion with God, his Church and his teachings?’
Peace to you
Scott
***my words not the churches
L
littlesheep
Guest
Dear aria13 and MartyL:
I’m breed, born and raised Lutheran. Lutheran schooled till 10th grade. (+ got a couple of summers in with the Sisters at Siena Heights University TOO, but it was a collage when I went.) Uninformed I’m not.
Upset a little? The E?CA takes the Lutheran name and runs it through the mud. Women Pastors, Don’t ask don’t tell Gay clergy,. Pays for abortion with it’s insurance plan for Church Workers. Oh and the Bible only contains the Word of God everything that they don’t want to believe is only good reading. It may or may-not be Truth for today.
Oh ya: the BIG ONE , signing the JDDJ. putting aside the Confessions that so many died for and were willing to die for. What did the RCC give up by signing JDDJ? Nothing - Ok we agree to disagree.
Ya better read the article on Justification in the BOC again.
Where do you think the Catholics on this board get some of their goofy ideas? E?CA is lutheran (yes little l) that so that is what ALL Lutherans believe.
Excuse me if I sound a little unkind. Sorry to the other readers for sounding that way.
E
exoflare
Guest
But this is exactly what Luther did himself.
R
RoseMarie
Guest
I was LCMS before I converted, and I tend to regard the ELCA with a bit of a fishy eye. It doesn’t sit right with me that they would even open the question of homosexuality being condonable, or that they allow female clergy.
L
littlesheep
Guest
ancienthistory.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=ancienthistory&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ntcanon.org%2Ftable.shtml
bible-researcher.com/luther02.html
bible.org/qa.asp?topic_id=87&qa_id=147
Just what books did Luther remove? How come the Catholic Bible don’t have Macabees III? Eastern Orthodox do, in fact they think The RCC removed books from the Bible. So Who is right?
And just to throw another one. bible-researcher.com/links14.html
I know I know The RCC version :banghead: By the way just to be fair I’m using The New English Bible with the Apocrypha If that is not a good one please tell me which Catholic Bible I should be using to compare The NASB with.
bible-researcher.com/luther02.html
bible.org/qa.asp?topic_id=87&qa_id=147
Just what books did Luther remove? How come the Catholic Bible don’t have Macabees III? Eastern Orthodox do, in fact they think The RCC removed books from the Bible. So Who is right?
And just to throw another one. bible-researcher.com/links14.html
I know I know The RCC version :banghead: By the way just to be fair I’m using The New English Bible with the Apocrypha If that is not a good one please tell me which Catholic Bible I should be using to compare The NASB with.
I
IanS
Guest
Tobit, Judith, Baruch, Ecclesiasticus, Wisdom, First and Second Maccabees; also certain additions to Esther and Daniel. He also wanted to remove James and Revelations from the New Testament. I challenge you to show me any Bible written before the year 1500 that does not contain these books in their entirety.
There is nothing to show this was ever a part of the Roman Canon. III Mach. is the story of a persecution of the Jews in Egypt under Ptolemy IV Philopator (222-205 B. C.), and therefore has no right to its title. Though the work contains much that is historical, the story is a fiction. IV Mach. is a Jewish-Stoic philosophical treatise on the supremacy of pious reason, that is religious principles, over the passions. The martyrdom of Eleazar and of the seven brothers (2 Maccabees 6:18-7) is introduced to illustrate the author’s thesis. Neither book has any claim to canonicity.
P
Psalm89
Guest
I am LCMS, and the ELCA on paper isn’t very different from LCMS. In practice they vary a great deal. Some ELCA churches could be mistaken for LCMS churches and some could be mistaken for a non-denominational church.
From lcms.org:
Q. What are the main differences between the Missouri Synod and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA)?
*A. The three main areas of difference between the LCMS and the ELCA are the following:
From lcms.org:
Q. What are the main differences between the Missouri Synod and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA)?
*A. The three main areas of difference between the LCMS and the ELCA are the following:
- The doctrine and authority of Scripture. The LCMS believes that the Bible is without error in all that it says. The ELCA avoids making such statements, holding that Scripture is not necessarily always accurate on such matters as history and science. Differences between the LCMS and the ELCA on the authority of Scripture also help to explain why the ELCA ordains women to the pastoral office, while the LCMS does not, and why the LCMS unequivocally rejects homosexual behavior as contrary to God’s will, while the ELCA has yet to take an official stand on this issue.
- The ELCA, while affirming its commitment to the Gospel of Jesus Christ as witnessed to in the Lutheran confessional writings, also tends to emphasize the historical character of these writings and to maintain the possibility of dissent to confessional positions that do not deal directly with the Gospel itself understood in a narrow sense.
- The level of agreement necessary to join together in one church body. While the LCMS believes that the Bible requires agreement in all that the Bible teaches, the ELCA holds that disagreement in some matters of doctrine, such as the mode of Christ’s presence in Holy Communion, do not prohibit church fellowship.*
- Status