Question for Lutherans

[IanS]

Okay everyone, I have to put this out here. It’s a little embarrassing for me to admit I have people like this in my family. My questioning of the ELCA goes further than just what I saw when I went. My wife and I were able to confirm today that my sister-in-law who is an ELCA member, is in fact officially charging people money to pray for them.

There is a couple in her church who are starting up a new small business and have hired her as a “Spiritual Advisor” for their business. Which basically means she will spend an allotted amount of time praying for their business to be successful al long as they pay her money.

Like I said earlier in this thread, I think this falls in line with this “Prosperity Gospel” garbage. This is the stuff that people like Joyce Meyers and Benny Hinn are really into and making themselves millions by taking advantage of others.

Can anyone give some advice on how I could convince her how dangerous and how totally offensive this is to God? She seems very proud of it and sees absolutely nothing wrong with doing it.

Can anyone give advice on how I can convince the poor owners of this business that they are being totally taken advantage of by my sister-in-law?

My wife just finished praying a novena for everyone involved to wise-up, but things only seem to be getting worse.

 

[littlesheep]

IanS: as you watch the sad state of a Christian church body crash and burn first hand. Remember that they’re setting up some new traditions and taking up some of the old traditions. Scripture has nothing to do with it. It is just a guide to them not their Foundation.

2Ti 4:1-4 I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; (and where is that found? In Scripture or Tradition? Where can you point and say “The LORD said in”?) be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.

For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

2Ti 4:5 As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. (There is only1 foundation not 3)

Joh 1:1-9 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world.

Joh 1:10-14 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

By the way for a small fee you too can have a prayer said for you at the Wailing Wall. See that is tradition…

And Yes I will be praying for your brother and sister-in-law and it won’t cost you a dime.

And you and the rest of you guys too, because as I said on another thread “Here is a danger I see coming down the tracks” (at a church body called) “the RCC voxpopuli.org And if that happens You will have a bigger train wreck then Vatican II errors” (uh - misunderstandings - as I was informed) Because you all ready have the Traditions behind this.

 

[IanS]

I’m sorry littlesheep but I’m getting quite confused here. You seem to be going in several directions at once.

1. I assume you don’t approve of Prosperity Theology (being paid money to pray for someone else to make money). I also hope you don’t think the Catholic Church partakes in this.
2. Do you have a problem with the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception or just what some people are doing with it?

 

[littlesheep]

re·deem
tr.v. re·deemed, re·deem·ing, re·deems

1. 
   *]To recover ownership of by paying a specified sum.
   *]To pay off (a promissory note, for example).
   *]To turn in (coupons, for example) and receive something in exchange.
   *]To fulfill (a pledge, for example).
   *]who cares.
   *]To set free; rescue or ransom.
   *]To save from a state of sinfulness and its consequences. See Synonyms at save1.
   *]who cares
   *]To restore the honor, worth, or reputation of: You botched the last job but can redeem yourself on this one.
   
   Middle English redemen, from Old French redimer, from Latin redimere : re-, red-, re- + emere, to buy; see em- in Indo-European Roots.]
   redimere
   redimio : to crown, bind around.
   redimo : to redeem, ransom, buy back / hire, buy, procure
   redemptrix
   redemptio : ransoming, redemption, buying back, farming taxes.
   redemptor : redeemer (Christ).
   re·deem·er n.
   One who redeems.
   Redeemer Christianity. Jesus.
   

   The term “co-redemptrix” is properly translated “the woman with the redeemer” or more literally “she who buys back with [the redeemer].” The prefix “co” comes from the Latin term “cum” which means “with” and not “equal to.” Co-redemptrix therefore as applied to Mary refers to her exceptional cooperation with and under her divine son Jesus Christ, in the redemption of the human family, as manifested in Christian Scripture

   Kinda stretching the definitions a little - Huh?
   
   Now Just what sins did Mary the Mother of God (Theotokos “God-bearer” ) pay for? Yours or mine.
   
   And If you can’t see that if (No not if but when) this little problem arises The RCC as you know it will cease to exist and you will have become just another sect like the Mormons or the Jws All it takes is someone to “Decree” and its over.

 

[IanS]

If you want to discuss Marian Doctrine that’s fine, but I suggest you post it under “Apologetics” where it belongs, because your taking my thread way off subject.

 

[TinaK]

aria13:

TinaK: my stating that God probably hasn’t changed isn’t that difficult to understand. He has, and does change His mind.

You word it in the manner of the drug addict who once said, “I now know it is absolutely impossible for me to stop on my own, maybe.” (Addictive Thinking by Abraham Twerski, page 3, ISBN 1568381387.) From reading what you wrote I wasn’t sure what exactly you meant, or if you knew what you meant.

Think about his anger and wrath at the people when he caused the flood, Soddom and Gomorrah…he wanted to destroy the world, the people…but he was “talked out of it.”

I just read the account of the Flood as I am following a guide to read the Bible in a year. Where does the Bible say that God was “talked out of it”? It doesn’t. Perhaps this is what you were referencing? And Noe built an altar unto the Lord: and taking of all cattle and fowls that were clean, offered holocausts upon the altar. And the Lord smelled a sweet savour, and said: I will no more curse the earth for the sake of man: for the imagination and thought of man’s heart are prone to evil from his youth: therefore I will no more destroy every living soul as I have done. All the days of the earth, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, night and day, shall not cease. (Genesis 8:20-22, DRV)

Or perhaps you scrambled the two accounts and made reference to Abraham asking God to spare Soddom and Gomorrah because of his nephew Lot? (Genesis 18:17-33) If you read the account you will see that God did not spare Soddom and Gomorrah, he spared Lot and his family because of Abraham.

His dealings with Job weren’t very kind nor loving, and he was discussing things with Satan

You need to re-read Job.

In the past month I have had gall bladder surgery (unexpected, 4 days before Christmas), a nasty sinus infection just as I was getting over the surgery, the furnace died this past Wed and I had to keep a 3 yr old and 5 month old warm in MI weather, and starting tomorrow I go to the doc and get put through some tests not knowing what the outcome is going to be. So why isn’t God kind and loving??? (answer: He is. He is allowing me to be tested, 1PET 1:6-7, (DRV) Wherein you shall greatly rejoice, if now you must be for a little time made sorrowful in divers temptations: That the trial of your faith (much more precious than gold which is tried by the fire) may be found unto praise and glory and honour at the appearing of Jesus Christ)

Even the Creation was God thinking things through. So, do I think HE’S changed. Sure, why not. He can be whatever He wants to be. Have his laws changed and what He expects from us, no.

To IanS you said

“To question the church is an ok thing, especially if they are saying things that go against your ideas.” As an educated person, one should want to know and understand and not just take things as “the truth” because someone in authority has told you it.

I’d like to see a biblical basis for this. It sounds to me more like you are imposing what you believe on to God. If God’s laws haven’t changed, then why does ELCA blantently disregard them?

You should have known some of my Chemistry profs when I was in college. As they were all highly educated (one of my favorites post doc’ed under Sir Geoffrey Wilkinson) one would expect to see a lot of questioning there. :nope: Nope, I learned a lot more about faith there in the Chem dept than I have anywhere else.

TinaK

 

[TinaK]

IanS:

Okay everyone, I have to put this out here. It’s a little embarrassing for me to admit I have people like this in my family. My questioning of the ELCA goes further than just what I saw when I went. My wife and I were able to confirm today that my sister-in-law who is an ELCA member, is in fact officially charging people money to pray for them.

There is a couple in her church who are starting up a new small business and have hired her as a “Spiritual Advisor” for their business. Which basically means she will spend an allotted amount of time praying for their business to be successful al long as they pay her money.

Like I said earlier in this thread, I think this falls in line with this “Prosperity Gospel” garbage. This is the stuff that people like Joyce Meyers and Benny Hinn are really into and making themselves millions by taking advantage of others.

Can anyone give some advice on how I could convince her how dangerous and how totally offensive this is to God? She seems very proud of it and sees absolutely nothing wrong with doing it.

Can anyone give advice on how I can convince the poor owners of this business that they are being totally taken advantage of by my sister-in-law?

My wife just finished praying a novena for everyone involved to wise-up, but things only seem to be getting worse.

If it were going on in my family, I would probably tell whomever what I thought and why, and try to do so as nicely as possible. rotfl: there’s a reason my grandma tells me I’m like her grandpa – “Gerechtigkeit ist Gerechtigkeit!” --tact is not the reason ) With my mom, I would have to make her mad to listen, with my one of my aunts I would have to schmooze her, etc., you get the idea. However, the best thing to do is pray.

Kinda funny that this comes up now. I just bought an old copy of Old Errors and New Labels by Archbishop Fulton J Sheen, and the little bit I’ve read seems like it was written for today. It was written in 1931; I found a 1950 re-print. I don’t think it’s currently being published. It’s very interesting.

TinaK

 

[super64]

littlesheep,
Still lurking, huh?

Quote:Another instance “Mary as a co-redeemer.” When did that idea get started in the church? And it is just getting started. Only after the “Hay Mary is conceived without sin” idea and oh yes watch out because that cancer is growing.

Mary and Jesus / Adam and Eve, Our first parents said no to God and Jesus and Mary said ‘Fiat’

My quote from an earlier posting:

My limited understanding is thus: Mary is not understood to be equal in the redemption of mankind. There is only one Redeemer; Jesus. It’s more about being a mother who suffered in the suffering of her only son Jesus. To know and accept that her son, the Son of God, must fullfill prophecy and be tortured and crucified to death in order to save mankind. What anguish she must have gone thru. Though we understand that Mary was steadfast in her support and an intergal part of Jesus’ mission; and by being with the Apostles in the upper room gave hope to them, during their time of uncertainty, that Jesus would rise and come to them again. We are all co-redeemers in Christ Jesus in that we offer ourselves as Christ did. To give our body,heart, mind and soul to God. Are we not to imitate Christ? Aren’t we supposed to be ‘Christ like’. What models do we have?..what human models? Yes, Jesus was human, but he was fully Divine. Mary was only human and perserved from sin.(well, we believe that…and Martin Luther)

Peace Brother,

Scott

 

[littlesheep]

littlesheep,
Still lurking, huh?

Huh YEP sure am

And to you

 

[aria13]

phoebecat: another fine example as to why we can’t judge all things with one specimen. You said an ELCA church that you attended told people not to attend LCMS churches, and that LCMS never told you to do that. Well, the LCMS church that I attended not only told students to not attend any other churches, they also told them to not date anyone of other faiths, because dating could lead to marriage. Also, when I was youth choir director there, we took a Christian youth musical on tour. I was told by the Bishop of the area to NOT take the kids to any other churches, because it was “not right.” I asked him if we were not sharing the message through music. He agreed that we were. Then I asked him if that was not the responsibility of all Christians, to share the message of Christ to the world. He once again agreed. When I asked him then, why we should not share this message with all we sing to, because in Matthew it says, “Go therefore and make disciples on all nations…”, not Missouri Synod Lutherans of all nations, he could not answer me. So, phoebecat, it seems that bias, prejudice, and blindness to openess is everywhere.

IanS: Are you questioning what your church offers? I don’t understand what you want me tell you about the Lutheran church that you don’t already have in your Church. The reasons that I have to not become Catholic have nothing to do with what is taught according to Christ, or the love of God. You seem to have already found that. Would it bring you closer to God? Will it make you more holy? Only if, for some reason, you find something enlightened to you that you didn’t see before. That all depends on your heart and mind, and is nothing that I could guarantee. I, nor has the Lutheran Church, ever professed to be more holy, or God fearing than another church.(to my knowledge) That seems to be left up to other churches.
I’m glad that you found Christ, and what you were looking for in the Catholic Church. As for calming down vs lively conversation, maybe that was more for others that were more for bashing and blasting. I apologize if you misunderstood me.

As for differences in Mass, I was just showing that there are differences in all churches, and that you can’t put them all together and do say they’re all the same. Yes, Mass may follow the same order, but it changes so much church to church, it’s difficult to follow. I taught in a Catholic school system, and the Mass changed from elem, to middle school, to high school. They were never the same. Then I’d come home and go to Mass at a couple of churches here and they’d be different again. I’d get used to the OCP, and suddenly there was a different book and Mass. Not just slight variations, but rather large ones. Did Mass follow the same order? yes. Just like when I go to a Lutheran church, and follow the order of worship in the LBW…old or new. no offense was meant.
Questioning as a sin…meant metaphorically. However, many born and bred Catholics don’t question the Church much. SORRY IF THAT MAKES SOME OF YOU ANGRY!!! (loud apology) But, I’ve been told that by many, many Catholics; even the one that I’m in love with.

Spiritual advisors?? whoa!!! That has some historical basis, and problems! Good luck…possible remind her that God answers prayers, but not always the way we think He should. Sounds a lot like TV evangalists. Very scary stuff…if you can’t convince her, pray for her.

TinaK…what does the ELCA disregard? Not judging and loving people? and what in Job was I incorrect about? He was proving that Job had stong faith and would not stray, but to whom? Not Job. God’s fury has been apparent throughtout history, as as His love. You misunderstood me. I hope you and yours are safe, and healthy.

littlesheep: so what which is it??

Blessings to all

 

[littlesheep]

Well, the LCMS church that I attended ,

I was told by the Bishop of the area to NOT take the kids to any other churches .

I don’t know aria13 You tell me. Are you Lutheran? LCMS don’t have Bishops, that much I do know about the LCMS. Do you mean a Distinct President?

Still got the protestant moniker in front of Lutheran still I see.
Oh! Aaah - you mean to ask If I’m LC-MS, WELS, LCA, or ALC

Thank you but I think I will keep that card covered awhile longer. But the fifty some odd post that I have made should give you a clue. Who knows? I might just be a real conservative ELCA Bishop or Pastor not liking the way my church is going. I’ll give you one however I will quit putting a ? where Lutheran is suppose to be.

I, nor has the Lutheran Church, ever professed to be more holy, or God fearing than another church.(to my knowledge) That seems to be left up to other churches

Now that was a pretty fair answer, been hitting the books? But does that depends on wither or not we’re talking about a Christian church?.

 

[littlesheep]

And hay! Tamara is waiting for an answer to her question to you on the What Lutherans Confess thread.

So take a deep breath and say HE can’t get to me about a dozen times. Read her question and give her a Lutheran answer not a Protestant Lutheran answer. See I take umbrage to Protestant Lutheran because it sounds like you are protesting the Lutheran Confessions. Which I don’t think you are.

 

[TamaraS]

littlesheep:

And hay! Tamara is waiting for an answer to her question to you on the What Lutherans Confess thread. [/c

That’s okay, littlesheep, often I feel like my posts are ignored. Maybe I’m just boring.
Tamara

 

[TinaK]

aria13:

TinaK…what does the ELCA disregard? Not judging and loving people?

For starters, abortion. I went looking on ELCA’s site to see what they had to say and this is what I found:

elca.org/socialstatements/abortion/
A developing life in the womb does not have an absolute right to be born, nor does a pregnant woman have an absolute right to terminate a pregnancy.

What ever happened to the 5th Commandment? : Thou shalt not kill.
Then there is the problem with women’s ordination ewtn.com/library/PRIESTS/ZWOMORD.HTM. Due to time constraints, I am going to stop there.
Have you ever read There We Stood Here We Stand by Tim Drake? Jennifer Ferrara and Patricia Sodano Ireland who have their stories in ther were both ELCA ministers. Very interesting reading. (There’s LCMS and WELS in there, too.)

and what in Job was I incorrect about? He was proving that Job had stong faith and would not stray, but to whom? Not Job. God’s fury has been apparent throughtout history, as as His love. You misunderstood me.

You originally said

His dealings with Job weren’t very kind nor loving, and he was discussing things with Satan.

Do you mean that God allowed those bad things to happen to Job because of anger? So if God shows anger then shows compassion that means that He has changed His mind and therefore probably changed?

Yes, there are multiple times that God has been angry throughout the ages and then shown compassion, but does changing emotions means that He has changed? Any day I can go from fired up angry to meek as a lamb, but does that mean that I change? No. I may change emotions based on what is going on, but I’m still the same old Tina I have been all my life.

Not judging and loving people. Does that mean that ELCA is truly loving because it is non-judgemental? The last I knew telling the truth and being judgemental were two different things.

I was rather hoping you would answer IanS’s questions, not because I’m looking to become ELCA but because I would like to see the answers. I’m particularly interested in the last question.

 

[TinaK]

Tamara,

I thought you had an interesting way of explaining closed communion. I never thought of it quite like that before.

It’s not that you’re boring, it’s that you put things in such a way that it’s difficult to come up with a response

TinaK

 

[TamaraS]

TinaK:

Tamara,

I thought you had an interesting way of explaining closed communion. I never thought of it quite like that before.

It’s not that you’re boring, it’s that you put things in such a way that it’s difficult to come up with a response

TinaK

Thank you. You’re very sweet. From what I’ve read, you have some pretty good responces yourself.
Tamara

 

[aria13]

littlesheep: So you think you know the LCMS, do you. Better hit the books some more, because they do have Bishops. I was employed by the church, and believe me, I do know who I was speaking to. His name was Bishop Anderson. So, before you come across as all knowing, you’d better know your stuff on here, or you’ll get eaten alive. (gee, where did I read that before.

Yes, I have Protestant down, meaning I’m not Catholic. I am Lutheran, which puts me into a specific Protestant church. I could put ELCA, but I won’t; gets too lengthy. I started out as ALC, got married and moved, became LCMS, but didn’t really like the fact that they don’t allow women a real voice even if they do make major decisions that men take credit for; got a job at and ELCA church and became a member. Are you not able to acknowledge what synod you are a member of? A conservative ELCA? No, that was my dad, you’re no where near his level of conservativeness.

As for hitting the books, no, I’ve been too busy teaching.

TinaK: I’ve never said that I hold true to all that the ELCA holds to. However, if you truly read the abortion statement that you so kindly found, it double speaks. Basically it says that neither fetus nor woman have absolute rights. It’s kind of like riding on the fence; which way do you fall? Damned if you do; damned if you don’t. If a woman makes a choice, it is hers to make. To take away that choice, and make it illegal, doesn’t make her stop. It just makes her a criminal, and the doctor. OR it will become back alley surgery, and both woman and fetus die. And then there are 2 deaths.
Women clergy: Don’t you feel that you are intelligent enough to become a minister? Is that knowlege and right to preach the gospel only for men? The 12 disciples of Christ were men, true. But what about the women who also followed Him? Did Jesus tell them to “keep their mouths shut, and don’t share your experiences and the word of God with others?” Since it’s not written in scripture, it can only be speculation, but I don’t think he did. More women teach Sunday school, religion classes, etc, than men. Why do you, as a woman, think that you can only teach children, give them the basics of their faith and beliefs, give them a strong foundation, and then have to turn away from that education for adults?? I think you’re probably a very intelligent woman, and could do very well as a minister. But the Catholic church, and some Lutheran churches say otherwise. We just get to cook now.

I never said that God was angry with Job. I said His actions weren’t very loving. He played with Job’s life to prove something to Satan. I question the motives. If I, as a teacher, chose to fail one child who didn’t deserve to fail, and no matter how hard he/she tried I kept failing him/her; just to prove how good of a student this child was, my job would be gone! That’s pretty much what God did. I just find it a bit caluculating…and it can make for interesting discussions.

Tamara: did I miss a question to me?? When I have time, I’ll go and look. Didn’t mean to ignore.

littlesheep: too bad you’re so far away from MN. You remind me of my dear, dear friend who also moved. We would argue, or rather discuss, sometime heatedly, and then go “do lunch.”

 

[TamaraS]

aria13:

TinaK: I’ve never said that I hold true to all that the ELCA holds to. However, if you truly read the abortion statement that you so kindly found, it double speaks. Basically it says that neither fetus nor woman have absolute rights. It’s kind of like riding on the fence; which way do you fall? Damned if you do; damned if you don’t. If a woman makes a choice, it is hers to make. To take away that choice, and make it illegal, doesn’t make her stop. It just makes her a criminal, and the doctor. OR it will become back alley surgery, and both woman and fetus die. And then there are 2 deaths.

Okay I have to comment on this, sorry, but this is a sore spot. Just because something is “legal” doesn’t mean it’s any less wrong. We have an obligation as human beings to protect the most vulnerable and innocent. That’s like saying, “Oh well, they’re going to do it anyway, so let’s not turn them into criminals, too.” By keeping it legal doesn’t take away the how wrong it is. If it’s not legal, and someone decides to break the law, then that is between them and God (and the law if they get caught), but just because someone might do something wrong anyway doesn’t mean we are relieved of our moral responsibility to try and do what is right. Besides, even when we decide to slide and make things “legal” when it is objectively wrong, it never solves the problem, it just opens more opportunity to allow even more things to slip by that are wrong. That’s like putting your daughter on birth control because “she’s going to do it anyway, and at least this she won’t make it worse by getting pregnant” Ask my sister, who has a 19 year old daughter who’s pregnant right now. She made the same decision for my niece and she still got pregnant. Sorry- I;m way off thread here, just had to vent!

 

[TamaraS]

aria13:

Women clergy: Don’t you feel that you are intelligent enough to become a minister? Is that knowlege and right to preach the gospel only for men? The 12 disciples of Christ were men, true. But what about the women who also followed Him? Did Jesus tell them to “keep their mouths shut, and don’t share your experiences and the word of God with others?” Since it’s not written in scripture, it can only be speculation, but I don’t think he did. More women teach Sunday school, religion classes, etc, than men. Why do you, as a woman, think that you can only teach children, give them the basics of their faith and beliefs, give them a strong foundation, and then have to turn away from that education for adults?? I think you’re probably a very intelligent woman, and could do very well as a minister. But the Catholic church, and some Lutheran churches say otherwise. We just get to cook now.
I

Hey- What’s wrong with cooking? We all have to eat and someone’s gotta do it!
Now seriously, so what if we can’t be priests. What is a minister anyway? God probably needs more people who are willing to do the smaller, less rewarding stuff and less people who will do the big jobs that get all the glory. Everybody seems to want those jobs. We have many different ways to minister. We have a lot of women who teach at our church . The women are VERY active at our church. We don’t just teach RE and do daycare! Our mass is a sacrifice with the priest as celebrant (like Christ). We have lots of women who teach RCIA and most of the other adult education classes. Look at our Church worldwide, women are very active and have done incredible things- look at the saints, such as St. Therese or Mother Theresa. St. Therese was only about 23 when she died. She was a cloistered nun who is not only a canonized saint, but a doctor of the Church. None of this sounds like women are being oppressed. It’s so annoying that women who are happy with these roles are constantly being reminded that we don’t realize this, but we’re being oppressed, like we don’t know any better. Just because some of us our not in the “big, powerful” positions, doesn’t mean we’re any less vital. I serve any way God sees fit, and he loves the little ways, not just the big ones. Please, I don’t know what your Catholic exposure has been, but it doesn’t resemble what us Catholics know our Church to be.

 

[IanS]

TamaraS:

You have the most important job in the world which is raising your children and managing your home. There is no job in the world quite so pleasing to God as that. You are truly more concerned about pleasing God than yourself. Don’t ever buy into the evil lies of feminists, they only hurt women. Women have never been more degraded than they are today in America. One thing aria13 needs to remember that unlike the ELCA, the Catholic Church is the Universal Church. In many countries women aren’t as “happy” and “liberated” as the women in America by getting to act like a bunch of men. In fact, for the most part, they are very proud of the roll God placed them in, and appreciate the many blessing of true femininity.

One reason for the male-only priesthood is very straightforward and (should be, anyway) uncontroversial. Jesus Christ was a Man. Given the fact that every validly-ordained priest functions in *Persona Christi * at Mass (since it is Christ Himself who transforms the elements and performs the supernatural consecration, not the priest, who “stands in” for Him), it is altogether appropriate that men only are ordained. Of course we also have clear instructions and examples of Scripture which ought to be sufficient in and of themselves to settle this question. None of the twelve disciples were women. Jesus must have had a good reason for that, whether or not we understand it. I myself would much rather trust Him and apostolic, Christian Tradition, rather than the fads and fancies of our post-modern, sexually-libertine age.

Furthermore, the highest of God’s created beings, and the only sinless creature who ever lived - according to Catholicism - is a woman (the Blessed Virgin Mary), and a woman first saw the risen Jesus (Mary Magdalene: John 20:11-18). No man - by virtue of “unfair” biology - ever had the immense, unfathomable honor of “bearing God” and thus entering into that kind of incomprehensible biological intimacy with Jesus Christ. Protestants give us misery for allegedly venerating Mary as next to God, while feminists excoriate us for lowering the status of women vis-a-vis men! Ironies never cease!