Question for men-would you leave your wife if she lost her looks?

[Elena321]

COLOR=“Magenta”]On that note, though, I’d like to propose a slightly-more nuanced question:

This is addressed to everyone who cares to post on the thread:

What would you do if your spouse purposefully let himself or herself go–that is, if he or she obviously quit making any effort in dress or personal grooming for your sake?

How do you believe you would handle that?

On the flip side: How would you handle it if your spouse seemed to spend undue amounts of time, effort and money to be sexually attractive to others rather than** to you? What if being attractive to you was of little or no account, but being thought sexy by others seemed to be very important or even was something your spouse bluntly said was very important?

(To clarify: I don’t even mean dressing to suit himself or herself rather than you, although you can answer that, too. I mean women who try to gain the attention of men not their husbands and men who want to experience appreciation for their looks from women not their wives.)

If I was in the first situation I would look at the motive of the person (eg: Depression,self-image prob,or just don’t care attitude).I’d probably reflect at myself first to see if they have really let themselves go or whether it was just me having too high/superficial expectations.
For example,if they were very muscly & worked out at gym very often & then chose a more “simple” lifestyle and now became more “average body” & I was complaining,i think the issue would really be with me and not with them!

If they had genuinely let them self go,i would react different depending on the cause:
Ie:if they were letting go due to Depression (or other mental illness cause) I would have compassion,be supportive,be patient & not upset them over it.When/if the Depression was resolved the motivation issue may too.

Or maybe the motives self image-like if they look bad in everything they wear (whether due to being very overweight or having a dull grey complexion etc) and cant look(or feel) nice in anything they may resort to not bothering anymore due to giving up/feeling without hope.

If the letting go was just due to an attitude of “ive got you now so I no longer need to bother” then my reaction would be different.
I think this mindset happens more with women though then men(?),probably due to the higher expectations on us about looks.

Second situation-I would wonder if they were doing it due to midlife crisis (which I think is really just the male version of self image/esteem probs) or whether they were no longer interested in the marriage & were trying to catch the attention of other women because they wanted an affair.
I’d probably feel it was pretty disrespectful and may even do the same (I should clarify didn’t mean affair of course I mean getting attention,just to make him know how it feels) but I know this isn’t the right way to go about it!

 

[RPRPsych]

I think a lot of people are over-reacting to the suggestion of therapy / counselling here.

The suggestion was made, as far as I can see, with good will, and with no intention to be rude.

As for those who are bashing the poster(s) who said this as rude, uncharitable, Protestant (why is that even meant to be an insult? ), etc… there’s an interesting device called a mirror. You might want to look at it.

I’ve seen hundreds of scrupulosity threads where people tell the OP to “speak to a priest” (and such posts have even been made by priests! )

How is this any different?

Is there something “evil” about therapy, especially from a Catholic therapist? As a mental health professional, I find it disgraceful that in this seemingly enlightened age, such regressive attitudes still persist.

(Also, en passant: The OP also made a thread entitled “Are all men pigs?” I can imagine the hue and cry that some would raise if any man dared to post a gender-flipped version of that thread. I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning. )

 

[Rosebud77]

I think a lot of people are over-reacting to the suggestion of therapy / counselling here.

The suggestion was made, as far as I can see, with good will, and with no intention to be rude.

As for those who are bashing the poster(s) who said this as rude, uncharitable, Protestant (why is that even meant to be an insult? ), etc… there’s an interesting device called a mirror. You might want to look at it.

I’ve seen hundreds of scrupulosity threads where people tell the OP to “speak to a priest” (and such posts have even been made by priests! )

How is this any different?

Is there something “evil” about therapy, especially from a Catholic therapist? As a mental health professional, I find it disgraceful that in this seemingly enlightened age, such regressive attitudes still persist.

(Also, en passant: The OP also made a thread entitled “Are all men pigs?” I can imagine the hue and cry that some would raise if any man dared to post a gender-flipped version of that thread. I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning. )

Hmmmm… All that I myself meant re therapy was that this idea never enters into my own way of life or wishes. Not a regressive attitude( dear me!)just something I have never and would never use. My choice as are many other aspects of life eg not using hairdressers etc etc. I see no benefit in my own life for seeking professional health care “help” with what are personal matters … and I have been through terrible things and am still doing so. No I do not really believe in modern psychological treatment etc and that is my choice and my right and need to choose
Here in Ireland unless you are really sick mentally all there is is private treatment or drugs Even if there were more I would not. I come from a generation who battled through

If you choose to find this disgraceful, that is your prerogative… Each to his or her choice… Of course I had decades of misdiagnosed and abusive so called mental health care which does bear on my beliefs!!

Each to his or her own choice

 

[RPRPsych]

If you choose to find this disgraceful, that is your prerogative… Each to his or her choice… Of course I had decades of misdiagnosed and abusive so called mental health care which does bear on my beliefs!!

Each to his or her own choice

Non sequitur.

I have had family members who have received lousy treatment from OB-GYNs, in one instance bordering on malpractice (but try filing a medical malpractice suit where I live. )

That doesn’t mean that if someone posts here asking about pregnancy complications, I would tell them (a) that OB-GYNs are useless, and (b) that those who suggest seeing an OB-GYN are being uncharitable.

 

[pianistclare]

I think a lot of people are over-reacting to the suggestion of therapy / counselling here.

The suggestion was made, as far as I can see, with good will, and with no intention to be rude.

As for those who are bashing the poster(s) who said this as rude, uncharitable, Protestant (why is that even meant to be an insult? ), etc… there’s an interesting device called a mirror. You might want to look at it.

I’ve seen hundreds of scrupulosity threads where people tell the OP to “speak to a priest” (and such posts have even been made by priests! )

How is this any different?

Is there something “evil” about therapy, especially from a Catholic therapist? As a mental health professional, I find it disgraceful that in this seemingly enlightened age, such regressive attitudes still persist.

(Also, en passant: The OP also made a thread entitled “Are all men pigs?” I can imagine the hue and cry that some would raise if any man dared to post a gender-flipped version of that thread. I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning. )

Quite right.
And to the OP’ confidence is a most attractive trait. When you believe in your own worth, apart from your looks, you will find that a good man finds you quite attractive. Work on the I aide, and worry less about the outside.Nowhere in the Gispel are we called to be pretty. Just holy.

 

[RPRPsych]

And to the OP’ confidence is a most attractive trait. When you believe in your own worth, apart from your looks, you will find that a good man finds you quite attractive. Work on the I aide, and worry less about the outside.Nowhere in the Gispel are we called to be pretty. Just holy.

Absolutely true.

I’ve met people whom most would definitely consider physically attractive, but who also had other issues / hangups which came in the way of their professional or personal lives.

And as many on the thread have already said, married love cannot be based on simple physical or sexual attraction, because those will inevitably fade with time. A husband and wife are supposed to help each other and their children get to Heaven, something which does not presuppose any worldly standard of being “hot”, “sexy”, and so on.

I would warmly recommend reading some authentic Catholic documents on marriage, such as sections 47-52 of Gaudium et Spes, which address this question in more detail.

 

[Elena321]

I think a lot of people are over-reacting to the suggestion of therapy / counselling here.

The suggestion was made, as far as I can see, with good will, and with no intention to be rude.

As for those who are bashing the poster(s) who said this as rude, uncharitable, Protestant (why is that even meant to be an insult? ), etc… there’s an interesting device called a mirror. You might want to look at it.

I’ve seen hundreds of scrupulosity threads where people tell the OP to “speak to a priest” (and such posts have even been made by priests! )

How is this any different?

Is there something “evil” about therapy, especially from a Catholic therapist? As a mental health professional, I find it disgraceful that in this seemingly enlightened age, such regressive attitudes still persist.

(Also, en passant: The OP also made a thread entitled “Are all men pigs?” I can imagine the hue and cry that some would raise if any man dared to post a gender-flipped version of that thread. I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning. )

The “are all men pigs” quote was a joke,a reference to the popculture saying “men are pigs”.
I explained this on that thread and stated that I did not mean in an angry/serious tone that men actually are pigs.
I also stated at the beginning of the thread “sorry to any men about the title” hoping that would make it clear that it was said in joke not angry tone.
TBH I was also somewhat aware that such a title would possibly interest/engage more people to the thread (which it did).
I love men and it wasn’t meant to be serious/hurt men in anyway.
On reflection,maybe it was poor judgement and perhaps I should have thought more about the title as I didn’t anticipate that some people would receive it in a way that I certainly didn’t intend.

Regarding gender flipped version of the thread-while I havn’t seen a “gender flipped” thread ive definitely seen gender flipped posts (eg:songs posted about men marrying ugly brides) etc.I felt the same about that as maybe you did about my “man” post.I was told to lighten up .Maybe they were right and maybe we all should?

Regarding therapy- that’s fine as one option if its something that’s self chosen.
Therapy is fine but people should also accept that other people may choose to work out things through friends(or online forums) instead.
Also some people who suggest this may be well meaning but others may suggest it due to their own issues.
Ie:if someone is that affected by persons posting a few threads about similar topics that much/pushes their “buttons” where they can’t chose just to not participate in that thread, it may be suggestive that there is something about them they arn’t recognising (by your username I’m guessing you are a Psychiatrist or Psychologist so you probably know this as the term projecting).

Generally speaking- As some people have shared on this thread,some people have had less than helpful experiences (or even harmful) with some therapists too.
The topic of views/experiences on therapy could “go on forever” and is worthy of its own thread

“*Kind words can be short and easy to speak, but their echoes are truly endless.”*Mother Theresa

 

[LethalMouse]

The only way I could see this from a guy who isn’t terrible would be if he actually left because she became terribly self destructive like eating, drinking, drugs etc… and she as a result lost her looks and then instead of owning up to the real reason he left she pretends he is a shallow meanie.

So basically from anyone with a tiny degree of decency let alone actual following of being catholic, NO.

If the guy is a pretty bad guy then maybe.

If the guy is number one and you think that is the reason, look deeper.

 

[Rosebud77]

Non sequitur.

I have had family members who have received lousy treatment from OB-GYNs, in one instance bordering on malpractice (but try filing a medical malpractice suit where I live. )

That doesn’t mean that if someone posts here asking about pregnancy complications, I would tell them (a) that OB-GYNs are useless, and (b) that those who suggest seeing an OB-GYN are being uncharitable.

On this we will have to agree to d iffer.Apples and oranges really as in pregnancy ther eare two lives involved with the consequent responsibility

I am talking about three decades of medical mayhem and abuse. Hightly trained people all of whom simply read the opinions etc of the others… I had to move heaven and earth to finally get a correct diagnosis and get my medical notes amended to that effect and then I left the UK… for good.
I have chosen for these my last years to opt out of any medical care of any kind I do not need. Period. That is my choice for my remaining time. I Used to say I would seek a dr if I broke a bone but that too went skywest and crooked when I broke a wrist. Left with serious deformity after careless treatment

Actually I have never said to anyone, do nto go to a therapist.All any of us said was that we were astonished that so many immediately suggested it ,…I had no idea it was so prevalent in the US.

But most of you here working and with families whereas I am out to grass. Even so…
Why use emotive words like disgraceful and uncharitable?

 

[Elena321]

I’ve seen hundreds of scrupulosity threads where people tell the OP to “speak to a priest” (and such posts have even been made by priests! )

How is this any different?

Its slightly different because the reason why people respond to scrupulous threads with “speak to a priest” is not because they don’t have an opinion but more because due to the nature of scrupulousness(ie:worry,fear,anxiety) there’s an awareness that if you give that person the wrong (or conflicting) answer that that could cause the person to worry more and exacerbate their feelings.
Theres an awareness that if that person is prone to scruple/worry/fear they may also not have the “skillset” to be able to distinguish when they are given wrong opinion/advise & may worry about it.

Theres no such concern when you are talking about threads relating to looks or self esteem,or about marriage issues,family or neighbour issues etc and there are many people on CAF that advise each other about that.

 

[Elena321]

And to the OP’ confidence is a most attractive trait. When you believe in your own worth, apart from your looks.

Your right that I need to learn to separate my worth from my looks and I will work on this.

My original question still stands to any men (or women) who want to answer it as a hypothetical (its separate from my own self -esteem issue).
The other question also was "what do you look for in a woman…"

 

[oldrover]

Answer to your first question: no, I would not. I cannot imagine any circumstances under which I would leave her. We are married 30 years this September… I am in until death do us part.

Answer to your second question: I specifically looked for someone with whom I thought I could, and would want to, share my life. Mrs. Rover was the first woman I dated who fell into that category. The tipoff was an early date… when we went to a diner in Connecticut and talked for three hours.

Perfect? Hardly. I’ve certainly got issues… she’s got a few too… but divorce is out of the question.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

There is an episode of “All in the Family” that addresses this.

Archie opined that as couples age, their eyes weaken and don’t see the flaws of their spouses.

 

[Xantippe]

I just remembered that I have a quote from a home design book about this very thing.

The female author notes that her husband never seems to notice that anything around the house is getting old or worn out, which is irritating when she wants to buy a new one and he wants to keep the old one, but then she realizes–he won’t noticing me getting old or worn out either!

There is an episode of “All in the Family” that addresses this.

Archie opined that as couples age, their eyes weaken and don’t see the flaws of their spouses.

 

[Rosebud77]

I just remembered that I have a quote from a home design book about this very thing.

The female author notes that her husband never seems to notice that anything around the house is getting old or worn out, which is irritating when she wants to buy a new one and he wants to keep the old one, but then she realizes–he won’t noticing me getting old or worn out either!

Neat. Very neat!

 

[Rosebud77]

There is an episode of “All in the Family” that addresses this.

Archie opined that as couples age, their eyes weaken and don’t see the flaws of their spouses.

Aww! Sweet!

 

[Lea101]

I think a lot of people are over-reacting to the suggestion of therapy / counselling here.

The suggestion was made, as far as I can see, with good will, and with no intention to be rude.

I’ve seen hundreds of scrupulosity threads where people tell the OP to “speak to a priest” (and such posts have even been made by priests! )

How is this any different?

Is there something “evil” about therapy, especially from a Catholic therapist? As a mental health professional, I find it disgraceful that in this seemingly enlightened age, such regressive attitudes still persist.

I don’t think anyone thinks therapy/counselling is evil. It’s just not nice when you ask someone for help/you want to vent to someone and they brush it off by telling you to get therapy. I’ve had plenty of these experiences here.

I’ve been told to see a priest for something that has nothing to do with religion.** Sometimes all a person wants is to hear from you, to have a conversation. Not to pay their hard earned money/their parents’ hard earned money for counselling.** . Not everyone can just shell out some money to talk to someone (therapy is usually unnecessary for mentally sane people, counselling is recommended instead). You can mention stuff like insurance but for example, I can’t get mental health coverage unless it’s something really, really serious. And I don’t even think my dad for insurance for me. Especially when the person is not showing any signs of a mental illness. People always say to go get counseling the moment someone is upset. It’s just annoying, honestly. I should be glad, since I’m studying psychology and these people are the ones that will make me rich lol. But again, it’s annoying.

Like the OP, I am preoccupied with beauty (bc I look like a drugged up rat, and in photos: an abused+drugged up rat, lol) and it’s just annoying when people act like I’m in desperate need of professional help. My life/health is not in danger. So I can understand the resentment some people have over the ‘therapy’ comments.

It’s like how most of us don’t run to the doctor if they have a runny nose/a cold. I think the same situation applies here. (Although in these cases, the OP is usually not mentally ill. But of course, it’s impossible to tell)

 

[Lea101]

Quite right.
And to the OP’ confidence is a most attractive trait. When you believe in your own worth, apart from your looks, you will find that a good man finds you quite attractive. Work on the I aide, and worry less about the outside.Nowhere in the Gispel are we called to be pretty. Just holy.

Guys always say that, but I always see them running away from women who are confident/calling them derogatory words (like you should be _____ but not too ____.) Is there a secret meaning of ‘confident’ nobody is telling me?

 

[tee_eff_em]

[Disclaimer: I have few if any dogs in his race]

Quietly disagreeing. It is interesting and helpful to see how folk in different cultures see these things. What is less helpful is when folk seem to have closed minds and get aggressive when folk from different cultures add a view that is different from theirs. We can all and each learn from seeing and respecting those from other cultures. We are a global community are we not? Unless you are planning to rename CAF as USCAF… The differences fascinate me …

There is something frustrating about a this sort of thread (especially if it is a pattern – I am not familiar enough with the OP to know if that is the case here or not)
**OP: ***I am seeking advice about situation *X.

**Respondent: ***I advise course of action *Y.

**OP: **Don’t afvise course of action Y! Give me different advice.
:twocents: It’s okay to want several options of advice :twocents: But when you solicit advice, don’t be surprised that you may receive well-intentioned advice you would rather not hear. :twocents:


tee

 

[Rosebud77]

I don’t think anyone thinks therapy/counselling is evil. It’s just not nice when you ask someone for help/you want to vent to someone and they brush it off by telling you to get therapy. I’ve had plenty of these experiences here.

I’ve been told to see a priest for something that has nothing to do with religion.** Sometimes all a person wants is to hear from you, to have a conversation. Not to pay their hard earned money/their parents’ hard earned money for counselling.** . Not everyone can just shell out some money to talk to someone (therapy is usually unnecessary for mentally sane people, counselling is recommended instead). You can mention stuff like insurance but for example, I can’t get mental health coverage unless it’s something really, really serious. And I don’t even think my dad for insurance for me. Especially when the person is not showing any signs of a mental illness. People always say to go get counseling the moment someone is upset. It’s just annoying, honestly. I should be glad, since I’m studying psychology and these people are the ones that will make me rich lol. But again, it’s annoying.

Like the OP, I am preoccupied with beauty (bc I look like a drugged up rat, and in photos: an abused+drugged up rat, lol) and it’s just annoying when people act like I’m in desperate need of professional help. My life/health is not in danger. So I can understand the resentment some people have over the ‘therapy’ comments.

It’s like how most of us don’t run to the doctor if they have a runny nose/a cold. I think the same situation applies here. (Although in these cases, the OP is usually not mentally ill. But of course, it’s impossible to tell)

Thank you for this. On photos I look like a wrinkled old crone. When I first tried this chromebook, I accidentally pressed camera and wondered who the wrinkly on the screen was… HORROR When I moved so did she… But then I am old enough to be wrinkled… For me much of the time when I am upset by something it is because with this illness I get overtired very fast and that is why I almost always close down here around 3 or 4pm…Often simple physical ailments like a cold cause emotions to run riot

If you need to talk to someone, yes. I am happy to be that person for other and I have someone can sound off to.

I live two hours drive from anywhere too.