Question for Muslim women

  • Thread starter Thread starter Claire_from_DE
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Sister_Amy said:
It doesn’t mean guilty. It means Protected. They don’t have to serve in the military but are protected by it–their rights to build houses of worship, to worship freely without oppression, etc.
Click to expand...
Amy, I have asked you this before…PROTECTED FROM WHAT? :o

i have yet to see a muslim answer this. i hope youre different.
 
Sister_Amy said:
ZuZu, it was very nice of you to go find all those verses and paste them conveniently for me.

But I have a little personal policy of not reading or responding to long copy/paste posts like that. I don’t have time. If you have questions for me, I can answer. But two or three pages of ranting–and the purpose of such a post is only to rant, not to learn–is not something I am interested in participating in.
Click to expand...
Well how else would I get all those verse’s there if not for copy paste?

Just sura proof that islam is about killing but usually not addressed by people like you.🤷
 
ZuzuBailey said:
Well how else would I get all those verse’s there if not for copy paste?

Just sura proof that islam is about killing but usually not addressed by people like you.🤷
Click to expand...
Truth be told, there’s an explanation for every one. But to explain it takes time, and you posted dozens of verses–requiring me to TYPE dozens of explanations. Sorry but I don’t have that kind of time right now.
 
Is that a “question for Muslim women” or did you post in the wrong thread?
 
Why dont Muslims believe Jesus is God/Son ?
In the NT Jesus mentioned this many times.
Why dont Muslims believe in the NT and Jesus’ teachings?
 
Sister Amy,

I must ask one more question of you. According to you, non-Muslims are protected class in Islam, allowed to worship freely and build places of worship. If this is true, and I am not saying that it is not written as such, why in Muslim nations are people NOT allowed to worship freely as they choose, teach any religion other than Islam, or build places of worship? Further, in some nations, the government will “allow” it only to allow mobs to destroy the church after it is finished. Why are the words one thing but the actions another? I feel that because of your unique background, you may be better able to answer this.
 
ZuzuBailey said:
Why dont Muslims believe Jesus is God/Son ?
In the NT Jesus mentioned this many times.
Why dont Muslims believe in the NT and Jesus’ teachings?
Click to expand...
Muslims believe that the Qur’an is the revealed (and preserved) Word of God, and that anything which contradicts it in other scripture is wrong. The Qur’an says that Jesus is not God, nor the son of God, and that is why Muslims don’t share that belief with Christians.

Muslims believe Jesus was given a message (i.e., the Gospel) by God to preach, and they believe anything which might be written in the Bible contradictory to the Qur’an is something which was not part of Jesus’s message, but changed or added later.
 
ralphinal said:
Sister Amy,

I must ask one more question of you. According to you, non-Muslims are protected class in Islam, allowed to worship freely and build places of worship. If this is true, and I am not saying that it is not written as such, why in Muslim nations are people NOT allowed to worship freely as they choose, teach any religion other than Islam, or build places of worship? Further, in some nations, the government will “allow” it only to allow mobs to destroy the church after it is finished. Why are the words one thing but the actions another? I feel that because of your unique background, you may be better able to answer this.
Click to expand...
I have very little respect for many of the leaders of Muslim nations. You say they do not allow non-Muslims to worship freely. That is true. I don’t know why. I just want to point out that they don’t allow Muslims to worship freely either.

You say the people aren’t allowed to teach any religion other than Islam. In some places this is true, and in those places it’s often the case that the people aren’t even allowed to teach Islam.

I don’t know why. I think it’s because the rulers of those countries feel threatened. Let me give you an example. There was a teacher at a major university in Saudi Arabia, who was invited there to teach. He was a really major scholar of hadith. He wrote something though, about a particular hadith (saying of Muhammad), saying that it was weak–that it wasn’t very authentic. But it was something that the government used and was important to the rulers–so they expelled him, and refused to let him come back even for the pilgrimage!! And all he was doing was trying to teach them the truth about Islam.

Perhaps the answer is as simple as “power corrupts?”
 
Sister_Amy said:
These are commonly misunderstood “ideas,” even some Muslims don’t understand. The ayah in the Qur’an 4:34 is a guide for husbands to follow before resorting to divorce, for a woman who is very disobedient in her religion–and this is a grave thing, not just “won’t listen to them” like you said. Moreover, the ayah actually is preventing any sort of domestic abuse. Rather than allowing the husband to hit his wife, he first has to instruct her, tell her what she is doing is wrong. If she persists, then he is to leave her bed. And if she still persists, the last resort before a divorce is to supposedly “hit” her, although some scholars even take the opinion that “hit” actually means for the husband to have intercourse with his wife again. Others allow it means hitting but in such a way that no mark is left, and not on the face, in such a way that is merely symbolic, so lightly as if being hit by a toothbrush.

Regarding women’s supposed “deficiency” the hadith is saying that women perform less prayers than men do–in general it’s true, women have a lighter obligation in regards to prayer, because they do not have to pray while menstruating. And about intelligence, the suggestion is that women are more sensitive to their emotions than logic–which is a benefit in its own way, and also a physiological truth. It’s not so much an insult really–he was encouraging the women to give in charity.
Click to expand...
I’d be interested in knowing who “hits” the man when he won’t conform? Also, is a woman allowed to leave the marriage bed in a similar manner as described above for men?
 
Sister_Amy said:
I have very little respect for many of the leaders of Muslim nations. You say they do not allow non-Muslims to worship freely. That is true. I don’t know why. I just want to point out that they don’t allow Muslims to worship freely either.

You say the people aren’t allowed to teach any religion other than Islam. In some places this is true, and in those places it’s often the case that the people aren’t even allowed to teach Islam.

I don’t know why. I think it’s because the rulers of those countries feel threatened. Let me give you an example. There was a teacher at a major university in Saudi Arabia, who was invited there to teach. He was a really major scholar of hadith. He wrote something though, about a particular hadith (saying of Muhammad), saying that it was weak–that it wasn’t very authentic. But it was something that the government used and was important to the rulers–so they expelled him, and refused to let him come back even for the pilgrimage!! And all he was doing was trying to teach them the truth about Islam.

Perhaps the answer is as simple as “power corrupts?”
Click to expand...
Thank you for the answer. I feel something similar to this. I have been saying for a while that it is based on fear and greed. I do not understand why Christianity being taught frightens them, unless they are afraid that they cannot control a Christian population. Again, you have been kind and honest with the answer and I appriciate it.
 
Sister_Amy said:
I am here to discuss Islamic beliefs. Why would I try tactics to avoid such discussion?

My gentle reminder is for people like you, whose behavior in this thread (and others) is “morally ugly” (as per your post in that thread.)

There are Muslims who unfortunately act out of ignorance to Islam. That ANYONE would justify, even attempt to justify Nazi oppression of Jews, Russian oppression of Jews, American anti-Semitism, Palestinian suicide bombings–I think it’s sick. I won’t do it.

Muslims should stand up and condemn injustice in all forms. That includes injustice against Jews, and Christians.
Click to expand...
Muslims are so convinced of the superiority of Islam that they cannot accept any criticism of it. We posted statements by your own prophet that prove that he had a low opinion of women and you accuse me and others of insulting Muslim women!

I’ve read too many articles by ex-Muslims to be taken in by the tactics you’re employing. So either you’re using taqqiya which you deny, or else you don’t know as much about your faith as you claim.

How about these statements stating that Islam discriminates against women:

Wife can’t leave home.–Shafi’i law m10.4.
If a woman claims to be having her period but her husband does not believe her, it is lawful for him to have sexual intercourse with her.–Shafi’i law e.13.5.
Support of a divorced wife is for 3 months.–Shafi’i Law m11.10.

When a woman goes out, the devil looks at her; so conceal a woman.–Tirmidhi, 928.
In paradise, there is a market of rich, beautiful and ever-young women; they will be pleased whoever buys them.–Tirmidhi, 1495.
Women are stupid.–Ibn Majah, 5.4003.

Vickie
 
I’m not a Shafi’i, nor do I have any training in Shafi’i law. My fiance is in his last semester studying Shari’ah in a Hanbali school, and my teacher as well is Hanbali. So it wouldn’t be fair for me to explain opinions of scholars or fiqh rulings which I do not understand.

I’m sure that the fiqh books have pages of explanations though, which cannot be simply summarized into a 5-word sentence, so I think that you are doing Imam Ash-Shafi’i a great disservice.
 
AgnosTheist said:
because its a war zone wherein christians are especially suspected of collaborating with the enemy. i’m pretty sure that if muslims invade a christian country, christians would also suspect local muslims and kidnap muslim clerics. :cool:
Click to expand...
There are people of all faiths in the American military including Muslims, Buddhists and atheists. So, Christians have not invaded a Muslim country. Besides, food aid workers get kidnapped in Iraq also.
 
ralphinal said:
Thank you for the answer. I feel something similar to this. I have been saying for a while that it is based on fear and greed. I do not understand why Christianity being taught frightens them, unless they are afraid that they cannot control a Christian population. Again, you have been kind and honest with the answer and I appriciate it.
Click to expand...
I agree. Sister Amy has been very polite and patient with her answers
 
Sister_Amy said:
I’m fascinated that you found tawheedah’s quote to be reactionary to the Trinity. It’s actually not–it was not revealed in response to Christians but to polytheists, but it basically refutes all the ways in which people incorrectly perceive God.
Click to expand...
No it is because the Son is begotten.
And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, women, and children, whose cry is: “Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!”
Click to expand...
So why don’t you tell me, why people should not fight for those who are weak, ill-treated, and oppressed, begging Allah for rescue from their oppressors, begging Allah for a protector, for help. Tell me why you should not fight.
Click to expand...
I have no problem with that.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Muslims believe that the Qur’an is the revealed (and preserved) Word of God, and that anything which contradicts it in other scripture is wrong. The Qur’an says that Jesus is not God, nor the son of God, and that is why Muslims don’t share that belief with Christians.

Muslims believe Jesus was given a message (i.e., the Gospel) by God to preach, and they believe anything which might be written in the Bible contradictory to the Qur’an is something which was not part of Jesus’s message, but changed or added later.
Click to expand...
So could I write a book today (or use the Book of Mormon) and claim that anything that is in the quran that contradicts it is wrong? This a bold claim that muslims make especially in light of the pedigree of the New Testament and clear, unbroken thread of Catholic Tradition in the early church. Does islam have any proof that the NT/OT is corrupt other than “the quran says so”. This is not evidence and if this is all you have then good luck to you.

Have any non-muslims come across any books that describe the Christian Heresies that are present in Islam and trace their development into what became islam?

There is actually 20% of the quran that is unintelligible and tens of thousands of pages of commentary have been written on these verses trying to explain what they mean. There is a book called “The Syro-Aramaic Reading Of The Koran” (amazon.com/Syro-Aram%C3%A4ische-Lesart-Beitrag-Entschl%C3%BCsselung-Koransprache/dp/3860932748/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1204338697&sr=8-1) which makers the assertion that these portions of the quran are syriac phrases (syriac was spoken with arabic by caravans) transcribed with arabic charactersand that some portions of the quran come from a heretical syriac lectionary. This and the grammatical errors in the quran seem to point to a less than perfect literal transcription of the word of God.
 
ralphinal said:
Sister Amy,

I must ask one more question of you. According to you, non-Muslims are protected class in Islam, allowed to worship freely and build places of worship. If this is true, and I am not saying that it is not written as such, why in Muslim nations are people NOT allowed to worship freely as they choose, teach any religion other than Islam, or build places of worship? Further, in some nations, the government will “allow” it only to allow mobs to destroy the church after it is finished. Why are the words one thing but the actions another? I feel that because of your unique background, you may be better able to answer this.
Click to expand...
Just about everything there I could apply to most previous Christian countries

(Hint:Jan Hus’s right to freedom of religion was not respected by the Church>.>)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top