Question: friend had visions about me

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So what do you guys think about the charismatic movement then? I mean, it seems like a lot of weird things going on there, visions of scripture, speaking in tongues, etc. etc.

I’ve never been, anyone experienced such things?
When Deacon Kevin Ranaghan the Catholic Charismatic founder told 7,500 Catholics at a Toronto Conferance in 1997 “that barking like dogs and oinking like pigs is a true manifestation of the Holy Spirit.” Really?

A statement from Sister Lucia of Fatima
“in this time of confusion, this time of diabolical disorientation, there would be persons of high authority within the Church who would be blind and leaders of the blind.”
 
When Deacon Kevin Ranaghan the Catholic Charismatic founder told 7,500 Catholics at a Toronto Conference in 1997 “that barking like dogs and oinking like pigs is a true manifestation of the Holy Spirit.” Really?
That’s awful! Do you have a citation? Or is it a personal memory?
 
I only had a dream in which I saw the priest whom I am friend with, in the dream I saw him in the church as usual but the difference is that he has a yellow bright crown on his head!! It must be his Glory in God’s eyes. I believe this is the dream coming from God. Yet I still have not told that priest about my dream. If so, he should be happy about it. :o
First, I would not put an interpretation on any sort of dream or vision etc. without speaking to a priest.
Second, your dream of the priest with whom you are friendly wearing a golden crown could be your subconscious expressing your admiration etc. etc. of the priest. Your dream could mean anything at all and not of necessity at all anything religious.

St Teresa sternly warns about visions and locutions - and in that warning we could include dreams. She warns that they can be very susceptible to two very strong influences. One’s imagination or deceptions by the devil. One should submit oneself to a spiritual director or a priest and follow their advice with docility. After all, if God is trying to tell you something and all religious authority tells you that messages of any kind are deceptions, God will find another way of getting the message through - nothing whatsoever can stand in God’s way and His Will… Obedience is a very powerful virtue and nothing is ever lost by obedience to sound and legitimate authority be that authority religious or secular. We are called to obey both in all things not sinful.

Seeing you are friendly with the priest, why not tell him about it? What I would not be doing is attempting to predict his reaction or response. No way of knowing. He might give a happy response and he might not.

therealpresence.org/archives/Moral_Theology/Moral_Theology_003.htm
“In the apostolic Church, Peter implemented the teaching of his Master by urging the Christians to accept the established form of government and submit to those in authority “for the Lord’s sake,” that is, Christ, in order not to bring discredit on His followers. “Be subject to every human creature” with valid authority, “whether to the king, as supreme, or to governors as sent through him …For such is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish men.” And he concluded, “fear God, honor the king.” (25)”
 
That’s awful! Do you have a citation? Or is it a personal memory?
It seems to be quoted very often, as I have heard it before myself and I am not American. I did a very quick (2 page) search for you on the internet but didn’t find a written source. It’s hard to say from such a brief search but it could have been something that was noted by so many people in the conference, given that so many thousands were present.

I was looking for this for you though. I was always confused about speaking in tongues and always thought it didn’t seem quite right, but I found this homily a while ago and found it to be very good (in fact all of the homilies posted by Audio Sancto are brilliant!).

youtube.com/watch?v=AEuk3OyoSjo
 
I don’t about you guys, I have never been to a charismatic assembly, but I have heard (question if rumors can be trusted) that it attracts “weird” people. I have heard this from several people who are catholics. By weird I mean, it attracts people with various problems and are unstable. They also tend to focus on fear, end of the world ,etc. etc. instead of focusing on positive things like Jesus Christ and message of love and hope and redemption.

Any comments?
 
It seems to be quoted very often, as I have heard it before myself and I am not American. I did a very quick (2 page) search for you on the internet but didn’t find a written source. It’s hard to say from such a brief search but it could have been something that was noted by so many people in the conference, given that so many thousands were present.

I was looking for this for you though. I was always confused about speaking in tongues and always thought it didn’t seem quite right, but I found this homily a while ago and found it to be very good (in fact all of the homilies posted by Audio Sancto are brilliant!).

youtube.com/watch?v=AEuk3OyoSjo
Did you read the youtube comments, there seems to be some merit to the counter-arguments. In any case, didn’t John Paul II revive the charistmatic movement, therefore, it is not something that is demonic…
 
I don’t about you guys, I have never been to a charismatic assembly, but I have heard (question if rumors can be trusted) that it attracts “weird” people. I have heard this from several people who are catholics. By weird I mean, it attracts people with various problems and are unstable. They also tend to focus on fear, end of the world ,etc. etc. instead of focusing on positive things like Jesus Christ and message of love and hope and redemption.

Any comments?
I think it probably does attract a lot of mentally ill people, but I also think that any religious venue has that going on. They attract me, after all. 😃

In one big conference I went to in our town, which btw our bishop personally attended parts of and then said Mass at the end of the weekend, I don’t see them focusing on fear. I’ve never even heard that about them, so if you have more details of what was said I’d be interested in it.

Actually I think too many Catholic DO focus on fear. It seems the charismatics, which we don’t have too much around us now, but also the “Holy Spirit” prayer group that has formed in our parish, are more into “hope” from what I’ve seen. And when they actually do pray, they pray with a great deal of confidence that they will be heard. At least they act like it. And they prayed over me at a very terrible time during my mental illness, and they were fully convinced the Lord would hear my prayer and they had me convinced, too. And He did. Were those prayers a factor that made the difference between healing and not? Only if I had a parallel universe to try out both ways, could I actually answer.
 
I think it probably does attract a lot of mentally ill people, but I also think that any religious venue has that going on. They attract me, after all. 😃

In one big conference I went to in our town, which btw our bishop personally attended parts of and then said Mass at the end of the weekend, I don’t see them focusing on fear. I’ve never even heard that about them, so if you have more details of what was said I’d be interested in it.

Actually I think too many Catholic DO focus on fear. It seems the charismatics, which we don’t have too much around us now, but also the “Holy Spirit” prayer group that has formed in our parish, are more into “hope” from what I’ve seen. And when they actually do pray, they pray with a great deal of confidence that they will be heard. At least they act like it. And they prayed over me at a very terrible time during my mental illness, and they were fully convinced the Lord would hear my prayer and they had me convinced, too. And He did. Were those prayers a factor that made the difference between healing and not? Only if I had a parallel universe to try out both ways, could I actually answer.
Maybe, my friend who had the visions about me, said she was healed as well at one of these renewals, where doctors were suprised because they gave her almost zero chance…
 
Maybe, my friend who had the visions about me, said she was healed as well at one of these renewals, where doctors were suprised because they gave her almost zero chance…
For me there was no dramatic thing like that at all. Just a confidence that the Lord, through the Holy Spirit, will hear the prayer. Don’t know how it will be answered. The prayers happened probably five times over a several month period. The actual “healing” was an incremental process and really wasn’t terribly “convincing” to a typical outside observer, for a few years. So really that’s why I can’t claim by mathematics there was even any correlation much less can I infer causation.

I have no opinion on the types where physical ailments are healed, but I think it can be a useful component in the healing of the mind. Because the mind is involved in everything because really all our body is connected to the brain by nerves like a big Internet so it isn’t like one command center and a bunch of minions. So the mind can be very powerful, and for me this just added a bit to what I was already doing.

My SD told me that we have physical, mental, spiritual, emotional, sexual, and social components to us as human beings. One problem with doctors (I actually asked him why doctors seemed crazier than me and couldn’t listen to me) is they are too specialized. A person needs all these areas to work together, and “experts” are only trained in one or two of these areas.

So really I received many forms of help and much love. So would I have healed without those prayers? I’ll never know because I can’t change the past for purposes of finding out. Good chance I would have healed, because I think the Lord finds avenues that are person-specific and I believe He desired me to be healed.

Like when Jesus talks about the wide and narrow gate, I think of a wide and narrow path. Many of us go on the wide path, and that’s good because we work together, learn together, etc. But none of us have the same journey, which is why I would never tell somebody “you must pray this way and not that” to someone. I can tell them what I have experience or what I think and how that may be useful, but I think too often it’s easy to have the idea that if I find something useful, I have to “sell” it to others. Then I ask myself, “am I doing this because I don’t trust that the Holy Spirit can take care of the world without my going about my personal agenda, or because I am acting as an instrument of the Holy Spirit and He is moving me to do this?” That can be especially confusing because ego can get involved and I seem to be good at fooling myself into thinking whatever I’m doing is exactly what the Lord wants. :rolleyes:

MS
 
I have never been to a charismatic assembly, but I have heard (question if rumors can be trusted) that it attracts “weird” people. I have heard this from several people who are catholics. By weird I mean, it attracts people with various problems and are unstable. They also tend to focus on fear, end of the world ,etc. etc. instead of focusing on positive things like Jesus Christ and message of love and hope and redemption.

Any comments?
Gee, that sounds like a lot of Catholics on this forum! 😃
 
What do you mean ?
Are you having trouble reading what you wrote? There are many people who post here who have “various problems and are unstable,” many who “focus on fear, end of the world ,etc. etc. instead of focusing on positive things like Jesus Christ and message of love and hope and redemption.”

I’ve totally lost track of the number of people who ask, “Is x, y, or z a sin?” Too many are convinced that God does not love them & is waiting to pounce on some imagined sin & send them to hell.

I’m surprised that non-Catholics manage to filter out these weird posts and actually find “positive things like Jesus Christ and message of love and hope and redemption.”
 
Are you having trouble reading what you wrote? There are many people who post here who have “various problems and are unstable,” many who “focus on fear, end of the world ,etc. etc. instead of focusing on positive things like Jesus Christ and message of love and hope and redemption.”

I’ve totally lost track of the number of people who ask, “Is x, y, or z a sin?” Too many are convinced that God does not love them & is waiting to pounce on some imagined sin & send them to hell.

I’m surprised that non-Catholics manage to filter out these weird posts and actually find “positive things like Jesus Christ and message of love and hope and redemption.”
I still don’t follow you. What do you mean by your statement that your surprised about non-catholics? Are you suggesting or claiming that I am not Catholic?
 
I still don’t follow you. What do you mean by your statement that your surprised about non-catholics?
I’m surprised that they can see the good in the Church after reading too many posts by nut cases. But then, maybe they don’t surf the forum like I do & read only replies to their own questions.
Are you suggesting or claiming that I am not Catholic?
That came out of left field! Of course not. :rolleyes:
 
I’m surprised that they can see the good in the Church after reading too many posts by nut cases. But then, maybe they don’t surf the forum like I do & read only replies to their own questions.

That came out of left field! Of course not. :rolleyes:
But you added a sarcrastic emoticon…
 
But you added a sarcrastic emoticon…
Good heavens! You must be one of them; oversensitive, assuming slights where there are none.

It looks like this thread is going downhill pretty quickly, so I’m going to unsub now.
 
Good heavens! You must be one of them; oversensitive, assuming slights where there are none.

It looks like this thread is going downhill pretty quickly, so I’m going to unsub now.
Ok sorry, sometimes it’s hard to tell if someone is joking or not on the internet. God bless!
 
Did you read the youtube comments, there seems to be some merit to the counter-arguments. In any case, didn’t John Paul II revive the charistmatic movement, therefore, it is not something that is demonic…
Do you mean with regard the comment that quoted 1 Corinthians 14:2?

St Paul is hard to understand, even St Peter said so, so I don’t think many can be blamed for picking him up wrong. However, also in 1 Cor 14, St Paul went on to say this:
Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? If even lifeless instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played? And if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle? So with yourselves, if with your tongue you utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know what is said? For you will be speaking into the air. There are doubtless many different languages in the world, and none is without meaning, but if I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me. So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
Brothers, do not be children in your thinking. Be infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature. In the Law it is written, “By people of strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord.” Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers. If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds? But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all, the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you.
Although 1 Cor 14 is the text that is snipped to support this practice, when you take the entire chapter for what it says, the correct interpretation becomes much clearer. The gift of tongues is an aid for communication. It is meant to help with converting gentiles. It can be sought too much by people who are eager for manifestations, and by the people who do have it, they can use it wrongly by speaking but not bringing revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching, IE, it is supposed to be understood. Yet, nevertheless, it will not always be understood by those who have been converted because the gift gives a real language that has a real target audience.

Even in this odd-sounding circumstance, he also directs that if a person genuinely has the gift and is given some divine message to say, in order for him to do so in church there are particular instructions:

“If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.” (1 Cor 14: 27-28)

Corinth was a multilingual city after all, if nobody was present to understand, then the person ought to be quiet. He ends the same paragraph with “For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.”

Really, when we take the whole picture on board. What we know to be true is this:

1.) There are prophecies in the Old Testament regarding a time when God will call the gentiles by their own (foreign) languages.

2.) Every time the gift has an application within scripture, it always involves understanding.

3.) Every time the gift has been used throughout the history of the Church, it has always been to aid in conversion or to help in understanding (think, Padre Pio).

But on the other hand, what we know to be true about the so-called charismatic renewal is this:

1.) That they teach that God has given a power to some people to effectively help them get high.

2.) That they teach that God gave this to the first century Christians, but that everybody forgot about it and had to be reminded by a group of protestants in the 1970’s.

3.) The group of protestants that had to remind us do absolutely crazy stuff like this or this and are known to carry real cases of possession.

4.) They also disobey St Paul by practising this in Church by the bucket load and without anyone to interpret. Where the text they use to try to prove the charismatic way to be correct actually clearly teaches against this.

5.) The whole movement is fundamentally undignified and usually very irreverent.

I don’t doubt that God will still act through people of good will even if they do things wrongly without knowing, but as for the movement itself, it cannot be from God. This is one thing I never quite understood why St JP II encouraged. I would have to assume that he just didn’t know exactly what was involved. Even a Pope like him can make mistakes sometimes.

To be fair, though everything attracts weird people, I can understand how like could be drawn to like with things like this. Though the main problem is that it doesn’t help people who really have problems. God might still work in them, of course, but it only encourages any problems they had. In other ordinarily normal people it only tries to train them to think in a weird way. Add into the equation that this tends to be fed to young people in youth events and diocesan youth Masses, which only has the effect of either teaching them that worship is about emotion or of putting them off altogether. It’s an unfortunate disaster.
 
Do you mean with regard the comment that quoted 1 Corinthians 14:2?

St Paul is hard to understand, even St Peter said so, so I don’t think many can be blamed for picking him up wrong. However, also in 1 Cor 14, St Paul went on to say this:

Although 1 Cor 14 is the text that is snipped to support this practice, when you take the entire chapter for what it says, the correct interpretation becomes much clearer. The gift of tongues is an aid for communication. It is meant to help with converting gentiles. It can be sought too much by people who are eager for manifestations, and by the people who do have it, they can use it wrongly by speaking but not bringing revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching, IE, it is supposed to be understood. Yet, nevertheless, it will not always be understood by those who have been converted because the gift gives a real language that has a real target audience.

Even in this odd-sounding circumstance, he also directs that if a person genuinely has the gift and is given some divine message to say, in order for him to do so in church there are particular instructions:

“If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.” (1 Cor 14: 27-28)

Corinth was a multilingual city after all, if nobody was present to understand, then the person ought to be quiet. He ends the same paragraph with “For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.”

Really, when we take the whole picture on board. What we know to be true is this:

1.) There are prophecies in the Old Testament regarding a time when God will call the gentiles by their own (foreign) languages.

2.) Every time the gift has an application within scripture, it always involves understanding.

3.) Every time the gift has been used throughout the history of the Church, it has always been to aid in conversion or to help in understanding (think, Padre Pio).

But on the other hand, what we know to be true about the so-called charismatic renewal is this:

1.) That they teach that God has given a power to some people to effectively help them get high.

2.) That they teach that God gave this to the first century Christians, but that everybody forgot about it and had to be reminded by a group of protestants in the 1970’s.

3.) The group of protestants that had to remind us do absolutely crazy stuff like this or this and are known to carry real cases of possession.

4.) They also disobey St Paul by practising this in Church by the bucket load and without anyone to interpret. Where the text they use to try to prove the charismatic way to be correct actually clearly teaches against this.

5.) The whole movement is fundamentally undignified and usually very irreverent.

I don’t doubt that God will still act through people of good will even if they do things wrongly without knowing, but as for the movement itself, it cannot be from God. This is one thing I never quite understood why St JP II encouraged. I would have to assume that he just didn’t know exactly what was involved. Even a Pope like him can make mistakes sometimes.

To be fair, though everything attracts weird people, I can understand how like could be drawn to like with things like this. Though the main problem is that it doesn’t help people who really have problems. God might still work in them, of course, but it only encourages any problems they had. In other ordinarily normal people it only tries to train them to think in a weird way. Add into the equation that this tends to be fed to young people in youth events and diocesan youth Masses, which only has the effect of either teaching them that worship is about emotion or of putting them off altogether. It’s an unfortunate disaster.
Wow thanks for that. But then it seems you are questioning the charismatic movement which has the support of several popes…
 
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