Question from a Seeking Jew

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Jew_Man_73:
I ahven’t had time to read the article in its entirety, but I have skimmed it. I have to say, it’s strange to read Jesus using the word Halakha. I’m strating to think that the Catholic church is very friendly towards Jews. I ahd no idea. I was always taught that the Catholic church was anti-Semitic. I guess this is wrong?
Note: I haven’t read all of the posts after the one to which I am responding.

It is sadly true that there have been, undoubtedly still are, Catholics who are anti-Semitic. However, having studied Catholicism in depth for many years, I have found that the authentic teaching of the Church has always been incompatible with anti-Semitism. This is because Catholicism was founded by Jesus of Nazereth, who was born and raised a Jew. Whom we believe is the Messiah foretold in the Hebrew Scriptures, the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. The God who established the covenant with Israel with the promise that through his descendants, all the nations of the world would be blessed and learn to call on the name of the Lord. The Jewish religion was a part of that covenant. When Jesus came, He declared that he did not come to abolish, but to fulfill the covenant. This was done by establishing a new covenant which would embrace gentiles along with the Jews.

However, this establishment was not a repudiation of Judiasm or even of Jews for it was established among Jews. In fact, the New Covenant did not extend to the Gentiles until after the Crucifixion. Prior to that, when Jesus sent out His disciples, He gave them explicit instructions that they were only to go among the children of the house of Israel. When God became Man, he did so as a Jew and was born to a **Jewish virgin ** whom we Catholics refer to as our Blessed Mother and praise as the greatest Saint in heaven; whom no one will ever equal. **All of the Apostles whom Jesus chose to lead the Church of the New Covenant were Jews ** and anyone, Jew or gentile, was welcome and remains welcome to this day. Now, it is true that certain ritual practices have either changed or been eliminated. These changes are explained in the New Testament as relating to the difference between the ritual sacrifices required by the Old Covenant no longer being required due to Christ’s perfect Sacrifice. Therefore, again Catholicism does not repudiate Judaism but claims its glorious fulfillment in Catholicism. Again, the perfect example of this is the Passover, which was a perpetual rememberence. Has that been eliminated in Catholicism? No. The Mass is our Passover celebration because Christ, as the Lamb of God, is our Passover Sacrifice. Therefore, the Passover is fulfilled and is now celebrated every day!

What of the Old? Are we to disregard it? No. For it is our own origin, which is why we revere the writings of the Old Testament equally with those of the New. They are both, for us, the Word of God. The true and full understanding of the New Testament is not possible without reference to the Old Testament and to Judaism for they are our roots. If we cut off the roots, the vine would die!

I don’t mean to wax on. I only hope to illustrate the collossal misunderstanding that exists on both sides. To be anti-Semitic is to be anti-Catholic; for the Jews, as descendents of Shem, are our religious elder brothers as Pope John Paul II emphasized. In the accounts I have read of Jews who have become Catholic (including the book I referred to before, “Salvation is from the Jews”), they do not really conisder themselves as converts because, for them, they have at last found the fulfillment for which Judaism is perpetually longing. If we Catholics who have no experience of Judaism gave serious thought to that, we would realize that, by being Catholic, we are not in a new religion but part of the fulfillment of Judaism. That we are now part of the covenant with God’s chosen people who are, as was revealed through Moses, God’s firstborn. We gentile Catholics are the younger siblings who have been granted unfettered access to our older brother’s inheritance.

What a glorious God we have!
 
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Jew_Man_73:
I ahven’t had time to read the article in its entirety, but I have skimmed it. I have to say, it’s strange to read Jesus using the word Halakha. I’m strating to think that the Catholic church is very friendly towards Jews. I ahd no idea. I was always taught that the Catholic church was anti-Semitic. I guess
this is wrong?
We had a Mass for JPII at my parish this evening and the rabbi from the local synagogue was one of the speakers who eulogized our beloved pope. I have never known the Catholic Church to be anti-semitic, but I’m sure you can find a few anti-semites among Catholics as well as among just about any group.
 
Exporter said:
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You say you are a Jew. If you attend Temple often and theen go to a Catholic Mass you will see how similar they are. You’ll have to study some to find that there are similar prayers. After all Catholism grew out of The Jewish Religion.

Yes, I AM a Jew, and I attended temple regularly until recently. Judging from the mass I attended this past week, there were some similarities in the liturgy.
 
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Ignatius:
The founder, The Twelve Patriarchs, and the Seventy Desciples, were all Jewish. You expected something else?

May the Lord bless you.
Maybe I did. Jewish/Catholic relations have been shaky throughout most of history. I wasn’t sure. May the Lord bless you too.
 
Dr. Colossus:
The Catholic Church is about as far away from anti-Semitism as you can get. Just consider the incredible outpouring of support for Pope John Paul II from the Jewish peoples.

*This Rock *Magazine had an article a few issues back entitled “Are the Gospels Anti-Semitic?”. It’s a pretty good read:

catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0403fea1.asp
Thank you for the reply. Alot of Jews (At least most of the onesw I’ve known) do think the Gospels are anti-Semitic. From what I’ve read of them, (I haven’t read them all) there appear to be alot of Jews who wanted Jesus crucified, but alot who supported him. Also, The Romans seemed to want to crucify him too. Am I right?
 
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krazykatlady:
We had a Mass for JPII at my parish this evening and the rabbi from the local synagogue was one of the speakers who eulogized our beloved pope. I have never known the Catholic Church to be anti-semitic, but I’m sure you can find a few anti-semites among Catholics as well as among just about any group.
I’m glad to hear that a rabbi spoke. That’s great. I loved the pope too. I’ve never believed Pope John Paul II to be anti-Semitic, but I was always taught that the Catholic church has been mostly anti-Semitic historically.
 
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deaconswife:
Welciome Jew_Man_73. I am a member of the Association for Hebrew Catholics and can heartily recommend them. If at some point you felt called to the Catholic Church, I can tell you that you do not have to give up your Jewishness to be a member. One of the activities that the Association is working towards is a rite for Hebrew Catholics incorporating traditions close to the hearts of those came from Judaism. I see you are from North Carolina - is it hard to be Jewish in the heart of the Bible Belt.

Shalom
Thank you very much for your post, and your understanding. Yes, it is very hard to be Jewish in North Carolina. We’re almost non-existent here. I would love to learn more about possible conversion while at the same time retaining my Jewishness.
 
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shannin:
Rosaland Moss’ tapes are excellent. She ties her Jewish roots right into the Catholic faith. 👍
Several people have recommended her. I want to get my hands on some of these tapes. Thanks! 😃
 
I don’t mean to wax on. I only hope to illustrate the collossal misunderstanding that exists on both sides. To be anti-Semitic is to be anti-Catholic; for the Jews, as descendents of Shem, are our religious elder brothers as Pope John Paul II emphasized. In the accounts I have read of Jews who have become Catholic (including the book I referred to before, “Salvation is from the Jews”), they do not really consider themselves as converts because, for them, they have at last found the fulfillment for which Judaism is perpetually longing. If we Catholics who have no experience of Judaism gave serious thought to that, we would realize that, by being Catholic, we are not in a new religion but part of the fulfillment of Judaism. That we are now part of the covenant with God’s chosen people who are, as was revealed through Moses, God’s firstborn. We gentile Catholics are the younger siblings who have been granted unfettered access to our older brother’s inheritance.

What a glorious God we have!

Thank you, that left me speechless. I have never heard anyone, Protestant or Catholic, explain it that way. :blessyou:

By the way, I love the part about not being in a new religion, but a fulfillment of Judaism. Posting on here has made me want to investigate the Catholic faith even more.
 
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Jew_Man_73:
I have another question. Please help me. Does anyone know where I can obtain a list of all the New Testament passages that claim Jesus is the Messiah? I’m familiar with the TANAKH passages that prophesy about the coming of the Messiah, but I would like to read the New Testament passages as well, to see how they compare with the TANAKH. Any help anyone can give me would be appreciated.
I got the following references from, “A Textual Concordance of the Holy Scriptures,” by Thomas David Williams

These cross-reference the prophesies in the Old Testament with their fulfillment in the New

Isaiah 7:14 = Matthew 1:18-25
Michah 5:2 = Matthew 2:3-6
Hosea 11:1 = Matthew 2:13-15
Jeremiah 31:15 = Matthew 2:16-18
Malachi 3:1; Isaiah 40:3-5 = Matthew 2:23, 3:1-3; Mark 1:2-3; Luke 3:3-6
Isaiah 9:1-2 = Matthew 4:13-16
Isaiah 53:4 = Matthew 8:16-17
Isaiah 42:1-4 = Matthew 12:14-21
Psalms 77:2 = Matthew 13:34-35
Jonah 2:1 = Matthew 16:4; Luke 11:29-30
Isaiah 62:11; Zachariah 9:9 = Matthew 21:1-5; John 12:12-16
Psalms 117: 22-23 = Acts 4:10-11
Psalms 40:10 = Matthew 26:20-21, 24; John 13:18; Acts 1:16-17
Zachariah 11:12-13, 13:7 = Matthew 26:31, 27:6-10
Psalms 21:19 = Matthew 27:35; John 19:23-24
Isaiah 53:3-5 = Mark 9:10-11
Isaiah 53:12 = Mark 15:27-28; Luke 22:37
Isaiah 61:1-2 = Luke 4:16-21
Psalms 68:10 = John 2:14-18
Isaiah 54:13 = John 6:44-45
Isaiah 6:9-10, 53:1 = John 12:37-41
Psalms 24:19 = John 15:24-25
Psalms 68:22 = John 19:28-29; Matthew 27:33-34
Exodus 12:46; Numbers 9:12; Zachariah 12:10 = John 19:32-37
Psalms 15:8-11; Isaiah 55:3 = Acts 2:23-31, 13:32-37
Deuteronomy18:15, 19 = Acts 3:19-23
Genesis 12:3, 22:18 = Acts 3:25-26
Psalms 2:1-2 = Acts 4:24-28
Isaiah 53:7-8; Psalms 68:10 = Acts 8:32-35; Romans 15:3
Psalms 109:4 = Hebrews 7:14-17
Psalms 39:7-9 = Hebrews 10:5-10
Isaiah 53:5, 9 = 1 Peter 2:21-24
 
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theMutant:
I got the following references from, “A Textual Concordance of the Holy Scriptures,” by Thomas David Williams

These cross-reference the prophesies in the Old Testament with their fulfillment in the New

Isaiah 7:14 = Matthew 1:18-25
Michah 5:2 = Matthew 2:3-6
Hosea 11:1 = Matthew 2:13-15
Jeremiah 31:15 = Matthew 2:16-18
Malachi 3:1; Isaiah 40:3-5 = Matthew 2:23, 3:1-3; Mark 1:2-3; Luke 3:3-6
Isaiah 9:1-2 = Matthew 4:13-16
Isaiah 53:4 = Matthew 8:16-17
Isaiah 42:1-4 = Matthew 12:14-21
Psalms 77:2 = Matthew 13:34-35
Jonah 2:1 = Matthew 16:4; Luke 11:29-30
Isaiah 62:11; Zachariah 9:9 = Matthew 21:1-5; John 12:12-16
Psalms 117: 22-23 = Acts 4:10-11
Psalms 40:10 = Matthew 26:20-21, 24; John 13:18; Acts 1:16-17
Zachariah 11:12-13, 13:7 = Matthew 26:31, 27:6-10
Psalms 21:19 = Matthew 27:35; John 19:23-24
Isaiah 53:3-5 = Mark 9:10-11
Isaiah 53:12 = Mark 15:27-28; Luke 22:37
Isaiah 61:1-2 = Luke 4:16-21
Psalms 68:10 = John 2:14-18
Isaiah 54:13 = John 6:44-45
Isaiah 6:9-10, 53:1 = John 12:37-41
Psalms 24:19 = John 15:24-25
Psalms 68:22 = John 19:28-29; Matthew 27:33-34
Exodus 12:46; Numbers 9:12; Zachariah 12:10 = John 19:32-37
Psalms 15:8-11; Isaiah 55:3 = Acts 2:23-31, 13:32-37
Deuteronomy18:15, 19 = Acts 3:19-23
Genesis 12:3, 22:18 = Acts 3:25-26
Psalms 2:1-2 = Acts 4:24-28
Isaiah 53:7-8; Psalms 68:10 = Acts 8:32-35; Romans 15:3
Psalms 109:4 = Hebrews 7:14-17
Psalms 39:7-9 = Hebrews 10:5-10
Isaiah 53:5, 9 = 1 Peter 2:21-24
Wow, thank you. That’s alot. I’ll let you know once I’ve read these.
 
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Jew_Man_73:
Wow, thank you. That’s alot. I’ll let you know once I’ve read these.
that’s truly a lot to read through!

we’re still praying for you.

:blessyou:
 
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Jew_Man_73:
I’m glad to hear that a rabbi spoke. That’s great. I loved the pope too. I’ve never believed Pope John Paul II to be anti-Semitic, but I was always taught that the Catholic church has been mostly anti-Semitic historically.
I understand that there has been anti-Semitism in the Church historically and neither the Church nor Catholics are proud of this. In my lifetime, which has been pretty long 😉 I have never heard anything anti-semitic, but quite the opposite.
 
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Jew_Man_73:
Thank you for the reply. Alot of Jews (At least most of the onesw I’ve known) do think the Gospels are anti-Semitic. From what I’ve read of them, (I haven’t read them all) there appear to be alot of Jews who wanted Jesus crucified, but alot who supported him. Also, The Romans seemed to want to crucify him too. Am I right?
Correct. Just like ALL walks of life, there were some good Jews and some bad Jews. The Romans did the actual crucifying.
 
I looked back to see how long this conversation has been going on - quite some time. I hope that you find what you are seeking. I have found that some of the best Catholics are converts - because unlike those of us that were born into the faith they have had to seek truth, endure ridicule, be divided from family and friends, suffer much lonliness and the like over their decisions to come into the church. This shows a sincere desire to be a part of the one church - the truth calls them regardless of the consequences. They sometimes have a better understanding than someone who has been there their whole life.
 
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Jew_Man_73:
… A lot of Jews (At least most of the ones I’ve known) do think the Gospels are anti-Semitic. From what I’ve read of them, (I haven’t read them all) there appear to be alot of Jews who wanted Jesus crucified, but alot who supported him. Also, The Romans seemed to want to crucify him too. Am I right?
I think that if one fails to realize that we, as Catholics, identify ourselves with the Jews who crucified Christ each Good Friday (the Friday before Easter when we commemorate the crucifixion of Christ), then it could be misconstrued as our holding a grudge against “those Jews who crucified our Lord.” But this is not what we are saying as we recollect the story. It’s not like Purim (sic?) where a story is recounted and we recollect the bad king who did so many wrongs.

Rather, we are introspective and realize that the pain and suffering of Christ was inflicted because of our sins and most importantly, because of our disbelief. If our Faith were sufficient, we wouldn’t sin. If we didn’t sin, there would have been no need for a perfect sacrifice. If those who stood in our proxy to offer up the holy sacrifice had faith greater than ours, the sacrifice might have been postponed, but it could not have been avoided, for man was, is and apparently will be sinful. To atone for the sin of turning our backs on God, we can’t begin to make amends. We have offended the infinite and in our finite nature there is no way we could begin to make things right.

So only an infinite gift, an infinite sacrifice can begin to return us to God. God in his infinite Mercy and Justice has given us his only son that we might atone for our sins and be joined into his family as his adopted children.

We don’t Blame the Jews, the Romans or any other group. Since it was the Romans who actually did the act of crucifying Christ, if we held it against them, why in the world would we now call ourselves “Roman Catholic.” It would be like saying “Nazi Jew”. That term can never exist as anything other than the grossest of oximorons. And yet we refer to ourselves as Roman Catholic. Christ on the Cross taught us something we didn’t previously understand, for scripture said “an eye for an eye…” and we understood this to mean that we were to seek justice for the wrongs we had suffered, or that certainly God would ensure it for us, in God’s time.

However, Christ, on the Cross taught us something that Christians struggle to incorporate into our lives. He said, “Forgive them Father, they know not what they do.” This was not a mistaken accident that resulted in someones death. This was a gruesome act of torture, culminating in a crucifixion and yet he claimed “they know not what they do.” Meditate on that for a while and you come to understand that we are specifically told not to hate those who harm us. If they knew us for the better person we are meant to be, they wouldn’t treat us so roughly. As Christians, we are called to be that better person, to walk in Christ’s shoes and accept, with strength and humility, the sufferings we encounter. This is a very non-Jewish teaching and one that takes much time to fully understand. I will pray for you.

I would also recommend that you purchase a copy of the film “The Passion of the Christ” and watch it. You may want to watch it with a Catholic friend who could perhaps assist you in understanding what you’ve seen. You could also read the short text of “The Guide to the Passion” put out by www.evangelization.com .

I think you have started a wonderful thread and I wish you all the best as you continue on your journey to Know and Love the Lord. I’m certain you will find that he has called you to serve him through the Catholic Church and I am enjoying seeing you open your eyes to this possibility. May God Bless you and keep you safe,

CARose
 
The recommendation to watching the Passion of the Christ reminded me of one thing I heard from a Jewish Catholic. There is a tradition that anyone who hangs from a tree is cursed by God (or something to that effect) and that, since Jesus was crucified, many Jews understand this to mean that he could not have been the Messiah.

From the Catholic perspective, however, we look at it as God’s compassion and mercy. All covenants have curses that apply when the covenant is broken. An example of this is the proclivity to sin, and being subject to death being the consequence (the curse) of Adam’s sin. God, in His infinite mercy, God realized that no man would be able to bear the full burden of that covenant curse. He therefore, took the curse upon Himself, becoming man and submitting to crucifixion so that he could, as man, fulfill the curse of the covenant that came upon man through Adam.

In doing this, He took upon himself that portion of the curse which man was unable to bear. It only remains for us to accept it and the Graces which became available through His Sacrifice on our behalf.
 
Wow, thank you. That’s alot. I’ll let you know once I’ve read these.
As long as you’re reading, here’s another good one…
Isaiah 22:20-22 <-> Matt 16:19 wherein Peter is given the office of “Prime Minister” of the Church. 🙂

A link that may help you on your journey is David Moss’ site for the Association of Hebrew Catholics.

Ok, I see the link was already given, This is a long thread. already…
Shalom
Jim
 
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antiaphrodite:
that’s truly a lot to read through!

we’re still praying for you.

:blessyou:
Thank you. I appreciate all the prayers from the posters here. The encouragement I’ve received here means alot. I never expected the posters here to be so supportive. I don’t know what I expected, really, but the the outpouring of encouragement and support has been amazing.
 
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krazykatlady:
I understand that there has been anti-Semitism in the Church historically and neither the Church nor Catholics are proud of this. In my lifetime, which has been pretty long 😉 I have never heard anything anti-semitic, but quite the opposite.
I’m glad to hear that (Or in this case, read that. 🙂 ) The posters here certainly haven’t been anti-Semitic. And once again, I’m amazed at the existence of the AHC. Apparently I’m not the only Jew to ever go through this. That makes me feel alot better.
 
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