Question from a Seeking Jew

[Jew_Man_73]

Dandelion_Wine:

Correct. Just like ALL walks of life, there were some good Jews and some bad Jews. The Romans did the actual crucifying.

Yes, I read that this morning. I went to talk to the priest at the local church here, and he gave me a Catholic Study Bible. All four of the gospels state that the Roman soldiers crucified him, and the priest showed me some gospel passages that indicated that alot of the Roman officials wanted him executed too. Interesting.

 

[Jew_Man_73]

m8p:

I looked back to see how long this conversation has been going on - quite some time. I hope that you find what you are seeking. I have found that some of the best Catholics are converts - because unlike those of us that were born into the faith they have had to seek truth, endure ridicule, be divided from family and friends, suffer much lonliness and the like over their decisions to come into the church. This shows a sincere desire to be a part of the one church - the truth calls them regardless of the consequences. They sometimes have a better understanding than someone who has been there their whole life.

That’s an interesting point you made. I’ve talked to the director of RCIA at the local church here, and she told me that about half the congregation is made up of adult converts. She said that they are the ones who are the most “on fire” and do most of the volunteer work around the parish. (Not to insult lifelong Catholics, this is just how it is at this particualar parish.) She described the converts there as “the lifeblood of the church.”

 

[Jew_Man_73]

We don’t Blame the Jews, the Romans or any other group. Since it was the Romans who actually did the act of crucifying Christ, if we held it against them, why in the world would we now call ourselves “Roman Catholic.” It would be like saying “Nazi Jew”. That term can never exist as anything other than the grossest of oximorons. And yet we refer to ourselves as Roman Catholic. Christ on the Cross taught us something we didn’t previously understand, for scripture said “an eye for an eye…” and we understood this to mean that we were to seek justice for the wrongs we had suffered, or that certainly God would ensure it for us, in God’s time.

However, Christ, on the Cross taught us something that Christians struggle to incorporate into our lives. He said, “Forgive them Father, they know not what they do.” This was not a mistaken accident that resulted in someones death. This was a gruesome act of torture, culminating in a crucifixion and yet he claimed “they know not what they do.” Meditate on that for a while and you come to understand that we are specifically told not to hate those who harm us. If they knew us for the better person we are meant to be, they wouldn’t treat us so roughly. As Christians, we are called to be that better person, to walk in Christ’s shoes and accept, with strength and humility, the sufferings we encounter. This is a very non-Jewish teaching and one that takes much time to fully understand. I will pray for you.

I would also recommend that you purchase a copy of the film “The Passion of the Christ” and watch it. You may want to watch it with a Catholic friend who could perhaps assist you in understanding what you’ve seen. You could also read the short text of “The Guide to the Passion” put out by www.evangelization.com .

I think you have started a wonderful thread and I wish you all the best as you continue on your journey to Know and Love the Lord. I’m certain you will find that he has called you to serve him through the Catholic Church and I am enjoying seeing you open your eyes to this possibility. May God Bless you and keep you safe,

CARose

Thank you for pointing out that it wasn’t the fault of the Jews, and thank you for your prayers. I bought a copy of the “Passion of the Christ” this afternoon, and I’m meeting with the RCIA director and the priest of the local church here tonight to watch it and talk about it. I’m really not sure what to expect. Keep praying.

 

[Jew_Man_73]

theMutant:

The recommendation to watching the Passion of the Christ reminded me of one thing I heard from a Jewish Catholic. There is a tradition that anyone who hangs from a tree is cursed by God (or something to that effect) and that, since Jesus was crucified, many Jews understand this to mean that he could not have been the Messiah.

From the Catholic perspective, however, we look at it as God’s compassion and mercy. All covenants have curses that apply when the covenant is broken. An example of this is the proclivity to sin, and being subject to death being the consequence (the curse) of Adam’s sin. God, in His infinite mercy, God realized that no man would be able to bear the full burden of that covenant curse. He therefore, took the curse upon Himself, becoming man and submitting to crucifixion so that he could, as man, fulfill the curse of the covenant that came upon man through Adam.

Yes, that is true. Hanging on a tree is a sign of being cursed by G-d. Alot of Jewish friends and acquaintances have told me that’s why dismiss the possibility of Jesus being the Messiah. (There are other reasons, too of course.)
Your point about covenants and curses is very interesting to me. If G-d took the curse upon Himself, would that explain why Jesus died on a tree? Have Jews missed the point on this? Anyone who wants to respond, please do, thanks.

 

[Jew_Man_73]

jimmytoes:

As long as you’re reading, here’s another good one…
Isaiah 22:20-22 <-> Matt 16:19 wherein Peter is given the office of “Prime Minister” of the Church.

A link that may help you on your journey is David Moss’ site for the Association of Hebrew Catholics.

Ok, I see the link was already given, This is a long thread. already…
Shalom
Jim

Thanks for the scripture reference. I’ll be sure to read that.

 

[Faustina]

Jew_Man_73:

I actually visited a Catholic church this past week. Not sure why, but I cried. I’m not normally a crier.

That is the Holy Spirit speaking to you. It happens to me all the time. Usually during the reading of the Gospels and then during the Eucharist. Embrace it.

Welcome to the forum.

Consider yourself on my list of prayer intentions so that you may seek what you are searching.

 

[Jew_Man_73]

Faustina:

That is the Holy Spirit speaking to you. It happens to me all the time. Usually during the reading of the Gospels and then during the Eucharist. Embrace it.

Welcome to the forum.

Consider yourself on my list of prayer intentions so that you may seek what you are searching.

Thank you for your prayers. It seems alot of people here are praying for me. The priest at the local church here told me the same thing, as did a Protestant friend of mine. They said the Holy Spirit was reaching out to me.

 

[AnnaRose]

Not sure if this was posted already
…chnetwork.org/

Go to “conversion stories” on Coming Home.

God Bless, …you’ll be in my prayers

 

[Jew_Man_73]

AnnaRose:

Not sure if this was posted already
…chnetwork.org/

Go to “conversion stories” on Coming Home.

God Bless, …you’ll be in my prayers

Thank you for your prayers. This website is very interesting. I didn’t realize that so many Jews and Protestants convert to the Catholic church. I’ve heard alot of stories of people leaving the Catholic church and converting to Protestantism, but this is the first time I’ve been exposed to stories of people converting to Catholicism.

 

[theMutant]

Jew_Man_73:

Yes, that is true. Hanging on a tree is a sign of being cursed by G-d. Alot of Jewish friends and acquaintances have told me that’s why dismiss the possibility of Jesus being the Messiah. (There are other reasons, too of course.)

Naturally, I didn’t mean to imply that this was the only reason.

Jew_Man_73:

Your point about covenants and curses is very interesting to me. If G-d took the curse upon Himself, would that explain why Jesus died on a tree? Have Jews missed the point on this? Anyone who wants to respond, please do, thanks.

I think that, from the Catholic perspective, the symbolism is very deliberate. In regard to the covenent/curse point. I would recommend a couple of things by Scott Hahn to review whenever you get the chance. The first is a 5-tape series of lectures called Salvation History in which he outlines God’s covenants with man starting with Adam. The second is a book entitled “A Father Who Keeps His Promises.”

Additionally, I would also recommend a one-tape lecture of his called “The Fourth Cup” and his book entitled, “The Lamb’s Supper.” Both of these describe the relationship of the Eucharist and the Mass to the Passover.

 

[theMutant]

Jew_Man_73:

I bought a copy of the “Passion of the Christ” this afternoon, and I’m meeting with the RCIA director and the priest of the local church here tonight to watch it and talk about it. I’m really not sure what to expect. Keep praying.

I’m sure that many others share my interest in knowing your reaction to the film as a Jew investigating Catholicism. There are few things that touch me so deeply that I am brought to tears. This movie was one of them. Another is the song called, The Gift. I can listen to it, but if I try to sing it – forget it. As soon as God speaks in the song I’m all choked up and tears just start streaming down my face! But I digress.

 

[Jew_Man_73]

theMutant:

Naturally, I didn’t mean to imply that this was the only reason.

I think that, from the Catholic perspective, the symbolism is very deliberate. In regard to the covenent/curse point. I would recommend a couple of things by Scott Hahn to review whenever you get the chance. The first is a 5-tape series of lectures called Salvation History in which he outlines God’s covenants with man starting with Adam. The second is a book entitled “A Father Who Keeps His Promises.”

Additionally, I would also recommend a one-tape lecture of his called “The Fourth Cup” and his book entitled, “The Lamb’s Supper.” Both of these describe the relationship of the Eucharist and the Mass to the Passover.

I’ve actually heard about Scott Hahn, from my research into the Catholic church. Apparently he’s a well known convert. Thanks for the recommendation, I’ll look these up.

 

[Jew_Man_73]

theMutant:

I’m sure that many others share my interest in knowing your reaction to the film as a Jew investigating Catholicism. There are few things that touch me so deeply that I am brought to tears. This movie was one of them. Another is the song called, The Gift. I can listen to it, but if I try to sing it – forget it. As soon as God speaks in the song I’m all choked up and tears just start streaming down my face! But I digress.

Well, it was a very interesting and moving experience. There were some things that I didn’t understand, and the priest explained these to me. As for the movie, it was the most beautiful and at the same time the ugliest movie I’ve ever seen.
The film depicted alot of Jews who wanted Jesus dead, including the high priest. This offended me at first, until the film depicted Jews who supported him, such as the Jewish woman who gave him water when he fell, only to be chased away by a Roman soldier. I appreciated the portrayal of a Jewish woman showing kindness towards Jesus, while a Gentile was not.
As far as the film being anti-Semitic: I thought at first that it might be, because of all the Jews in the film who were crying out for Jesus’ death. However, after the film started depicting Jews who loved Jesus and Romans who were torturing him and killing him, my opinion changed. I don’t think the film was anti-Semitic at all.
The potrayal of Mary, the mother of Jesus was beautiful and heartbreaking. (I also appreciate the fact that a Jewish actress played the part.) When Mary cried, I cried. Her pain seemed so real, I could hardly bear it. I also love the way she was portrayed. The fact that Mary Magdalene and the apostles called her “Mother” was moving.
The portrayal of Mary Magdalene was also brilliant. I loved the fact that this Jewish woman was being portrayed as a woman who genuinely loved Jesus, and not a Jew who wanted him killed. When she was crawling in the dirt during the flashback sequence, reasching out to Jesus who had forgiven her sins, (the priest explained it to me) I was crying so hard that we had to pause the DVD. That was, in my opinion, the most beautiful scene in the film. The love and devotion she showed at the cross was both heartrending and incredibly beautiful. I couldn’t believe the effect she had on me.
The flagellation, beating, and crucifixion was unbearable. The priest had to stop the film several times because I was crying so hard and needed to compose myself. I screamed out loud when they drove the nails into his hands. Even now, I’m choking back tears just thinking about it.
I’m becoming upset and starting to cry again, so I’m going to stop for now. I’ll post more later. Please pray for me.

 

[antiaphrodite]

don’t worry. we’re still praying.



(p.s. you’re right, The Passion…has to be one of the most beautiful and ugliest movies ever–which convinces me all the more of the truth of its message. there is beauty in truth, but the truth also hurts.)

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Jew_Man_73:

Well, it was a very interesting and moving experience. There were some things that I didn’t understand, and the priest explained these to me. As for the movie, it was the most beautiful and at the same time the ugliest movie I’ve ever seen.
The film depicted alot of Jews who wanted Jesus dead, including the high priest. This offended me at first, until the film depicted Jews who supported him, such as the Jewish woman who gave him water when he fell, only to be chased away by a Roman soldier. I appreciated the portrayal of a Jewish woman showing kindness towards Jesus, while a Gentile was not.
As far as the film being anti-Semitic: I thought at first that it might be, because of all the Jews in the film who were crying out for Jesus’ death. However, after the film started depicting Jews who loved Jesus and Romans who were torturing him and killing him, my opinion changed. I don’t think the film was anti-Semitic at all.
The potrayal of Mary, the mother of Jesus was beautiful and heartbreaking. (I also appreciate the fact that a Jewish actress played the part.) When Mary cried, I cried. Her pain seemed so real, I could hardly bear it. I also love the way she was portrayed. The fact that Mary Magdalene and the apostles called her “Mother” was moving.
The portrayal of Mary Magdalene was also brilliant. I loved the fact that this Jewish woman was being portrayed as a woman who genuinely loved Jesus, and not a Jew who wanted him killed. When she was crawling in the dirt during the flashback sequence, reasching out to Jesus who had forgiven her sins, (the priest explained it to me) I was crying so hard that we had to pause the DVD. That was, in my opinion, the most beautiful scene in the film. The love and devotion she showed at the cross was both heartrending and incredibly beautiful. I couldn’t believe the effect she had on me.
The flagellation, beating, and crucifixion was unbearable. The priest had to stop the film several times because I was crying so hard and needed to compose myself. I screamed out loud when they drove the nails into his hands. Even now, I’m choking back tears just thinking about it.
I’m becoming upset and starting to cry again, so I’m going to stop for now. I’ll post more later. Please pray for me.

God Bless you You have my prayers as well.The Passion is about love.It makes me bawl too.I mean bigtime.You do not watch that movie you experience it:crying:

 

[Jew_Man_73]

Lisa4Catholics:

God Bless you You have my prayers as well.The Passion is about love.It makes me bawl too.I mean bigtime.You do not watch that movie you experience it:crying:

You read my mind. You experience that movie. After it was over, I told the priest that it was an ordeal watching it. It stays with you long after the credits roll.

 

[Jew_Man_73]

antiaphrodite:

don’t worry. we’re still praying.



(p.s. you’re right, The Passion…has to be one of the most beautiful and ugliest movies ever–which convinces me all the more of the truth of its message. there is beauty in truth, but the truth also hurts.)

Thank you for your prayers. I’ll post the rest of my impressions about the movie later today, once I get my thoughts organized. Intense.

 

[theMutant]

Jew_Man_73:

The film depicted alot of Jews who wanted Jesus dead, including the high priest. This offended me at first, until the film depicted Jews who supported him, such as the Jewish woman who gave him water when he fell, only to be chased away by a Roman soldier. I appreciated the portrayal of a Jewish woman showing kindness towards Jesus, while a Gentile was not.

I also thought is was good to show that not all of the Jewish priests were out to get Jesus. Some of those summoned were driven out by the others because they disapproved of the manner of the proceeding. I thought this was particularly significant because they were not supporters of Jesus but were decrying the injustice which, in truth, goes against the Jewish law itself. This helps to emphasize that Jesus was not condemned by Judaism as a religion, but by particular religious leaders.

This is important for Catholics to remember as not all of our leaders in our history have acted in true accordance with the teachings of our faith. This does not reveal any fault in our faith, it reveals a fault in those individuals. The same can be said regarding the Jewish faith and those leaders who sought to persecute Jesus. The Catholic Church, like Judaism before it, is filled with both saints and sinners.

 

[Jew_Man_73]

theMutant:

I also thought is was good to show that not all of the Jewish priests were out to get Jesus. Some of those summoned were driven out by the others because they disapproved of the manner of the proceeding. I thought this was particularly significant because they were not supporters of Jesus but were decrying the injustice which, in truth, goes against the Jewish law itself. This helps to emphasize that Jesus was not condemned by Judaism as a religion, but by particular religious leaders.

This is important for Catholics to remember as not all of our leaders in our history have acted in true accordance with the teachings of our faith. This does not reveal any fault in our faith, it reveals a fault in those individuals. The same can be said regarding the Jewish faith and those leaders who sought to persecute Jesus. The Catholic Church, like Judaism before it, is filled with both saints and sinners.

That is a good point you made. There were Jewish religious leaders in the film who did not want Jesus to be executed, and they were driven out by the ones who did want him executed. Is this actually depicted in the gospels, or was this artisitc license on the part of Mel Gibson? (I was just wondering if he added that part to the film because of all the accusations of anti-Semitism that were directed against him.)
I also thought it was interesting that most of the Romans didn’t care. They didn’t care if he lived or died, they were just doing their jobs, and doing them mercilessly. They certainly didn’t seem to have a great love for Jesus. I think this was good, because it helped to balance out the portrayals in the film and take away from any anti-Semitism that might otherwise have been present.
And I agree with you about the saints and sinners part. I’ve met many Jews who were far from being saintly. I’ve also known many Jews who are filled with the love of G-d. I’m sure Catholics are the same, going by many that I’ve met recently.
I still have alot to pray about and alot to sort out in my mind. This has been quite an experience so far, to say the least.

 

[CreosMary]

Welcome elder brother
I pray you find your home in the Catholic Church. You may want to look up Edith Stein on a Catholic site. She was a jewish girl who converted to the faith,became a Nun and a saint. This was during WWII.
I must share with you a little joke that a Bishop friend of mine told me…
Roses are red,
Violets are bluish,
If it wasn’t for Jesus,
We’d all be Jewish!!
God Bless and Mary protect you always
Br CreosMary