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Jew_Man_73
Guest
Is there something I can read about the Orthodox churches too? If they reject Peter and the papacy, how can they have Apostolic Succession?
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CARose
Guest
There are at least two instances of Apostolic succession in the bible, as pertains to the position / role of Apostle. When Judas betrayed Jesus and then committed suicide, his position was filled by another when they used lots to decide.
When Saul / Paul saw the light, he became another Apostle, appointed directly by Christ, but even he went to the other Apostles before being sent out by them to evangelize to the Gentiles. Remember, the scales were not removed from his eyes until they were washed by one of the members of the Church.
Then there are also stories of Timothy going from Paul as well as others (I don’t have their specific stories). Each time, a person is first an “apprentice” to one who understand the word, and is then commissioned to go forth and preach. One doesn’t simply get slain in the spirit and go forth, skipping the step of being vetted. This is something the Catholic Church takes very seriously. Preaching the Gospel is something that you need to work towards attaining, after you feel the call from God.
Oh, you talked about getting lost in Romans. Don’t worry, it’s a tough book. You may want to take a look at Hebrews. It’s written to Jewish Christians. You may enjoy it. Remember the Eucharist while you read it! But wrt Roman’s you may want to try to get a hold of Scott Hahn’s tape series Romanism in Romans. It’s an excellent series that walks you through the entire book, helping with contextual information.
You might check to see if a local Catholic Parish has a library from which you could borrow it. Otherwise, it can be purchased through it St. Joseph Communications, at www.saintjoe.com. He is an excellent resource for learning more about scripture. He’s a professor at Stubenville University in Ohio and he and his wife are converts to the faith.
CARose
When Saul / Paul saw the light, he became another Apostle, appointed directly by Christ, but even he went to the other Apostles before being sent out by them to evangelize to the Gentiles. Remember, the scales were not removed from his eyes until they were washed by one of the members of the Church.
Then there are also stories of Timothy going from Paul as well as others (I don’t have their specific stories). Each time, a person is first an “apprentice” to one who understand the word, and is then commissioned to go forth and preach. One doesn’t simply get slain in the spirit and go forth, skipping the step of being vetted. This is something the Catholic Church takes very seriously. Preaching the Gospel is something that you need to work towards attaining, after you feel the call from God.
Oh, you talked about getting lost in Romans. Don’t worry, it’s a tough book. You may want to take a look at Hebrews. It’s written to Jewish Christians. You may enjoy it. Remember the Eucharist while you read it! But wrt Roman’s you may want to try to get a hold of Scott Hahn’s tape series Romanism in Romans. It’s an excellent series that walks you through the entire book, helping with contextual information.
You might check to see if a local Catholic Parish has a library from which you could borrow it. Otherwise, it can be purchased through it St. Joseph Communications, at www.saintjoe.com. He is an excellent resource for learning more about scripture. He’s a professor at Stubenville University in Ohio and he and his wife are converts to the faith.
CARose
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Jew_Man_73
Guest
Excellent idea. I think I will put Romans aside for now and concentrate on Hebrews. I’ll look for the tape set too. (I read Rome Sweet Home, by the way.) I remember reading about Judas being replaced, and about Saul being converted as well. I didn’t realize those were instances of Apostolic Succession. Interesting. It makes sense. New men continue to be called and ordained down through history. I understand better now.
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CARose
Guest
Have you looked through the CA tracts for anything on Apostolic Succession? They tend to do an excellent job of approaching a subject clearly, thoroughly and yet succinctly.
WRT Orthodox Churches and their retention of Apostolic Succession, they have a valid Bishop, actually they have a Patriarch, which is one step above a standard Bishop, one step below the Pope, whom I believe they see as the Patriarch of the West. From this position, they can ordain an unbroken chain of successors, other priests, deacons and bishops who are sent out to confect the Eucharist.
I’m in no way an expert of the Orthodox Church and don’t know any specific references to suggest.
God Bless,
CARose
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Jew_Man_73
Guest
Thank you. Honestly, it hasn’t occurred to me to look on CA. I’m still familiarizing myself with this website. I’ll look up Apostolic Succession.
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Jew_Man_73
Guest
Oh, by the way, I was thinking about another similarity between Jewish liturgy and Catholic liturgy. During our services, there is a time when we turn to each other, shake hands, and say “Shabbat Shalom.” At Mass, there is a time when we turn to each other, shake hands, and say “Peace be with you.” I just thought this was interesting.
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CARose
Guest
Seeing as how the Catholic Mass is the Jewish Liturgy, such similarities are fun to see, but are to be expected. But it is fun to find them isn’t it!
CARose
CARose
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Jew_Man_73
Guest
Yes, it really is. I had no idea that the Mass was so similar to the Jewish liturgy until I visited a Catholic church, and the more I attend, the more similarities I see.Seeing as how the Catholic Mass is the Jewish Liturgy, such similarities are fun to see, but are to be expected. But it is fun to find them isn’t it!
CARose
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CARose
Guest
We had a priest come once who said the Mass in Hebrew. Now that was amazing, as you hear him, over the host saying (excuse the spelling) “Baruch, ata adoini, eluhenu melech …” I was blown away, because I knew the words, the same words I said over Friday’s Challah.
Welcome Home JM, ready or not, God’s got you and is bringing you home, Post Haste!
CARose
Welcome Home JM, ready or not, God’s got you and is bringing you home, Post Haste!
CARose
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Jew_Man_73
Guest
Wow, why did he say it in Hebrew? Were you in Israel at the time? Yes, those words are said every Friday in temple. Very interesting! My friends all agree that G-d is bringing me home too, even my Protestant friends!
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CARose
Guest
He said the entire mass in hebrew. I never learned why he was saying it in Hebrew, but he did and it was amazing. I found myself praying along at that point.
CARose
CARose
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Jew_Man_73
Guest
Interesting. I would love to attend a Hebrew Mass.
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CARose
Guest
Yea, I’m glad I had the opportunity to see it. It really left me reeling as I saw the Jewish Liturgy before me. I wish I knew more about where this priest was from, although I did go up and thank him, I don’t recall what he said regarding where he was from or why in Hebrew. I think I was probably in the state of shock.
CARose
CARose
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Jew_Man_73
Guest
I’m going to aske the RCIA director at the church here if she knows of any Hebrew language Masses. I really want to go to one. Even if I had to drive a couple of hours, it would be ok.
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CARose
Guest
When I encountered it, it was a visiting priest. I don’t know that even in his home parish that he says it in Hebrew on a regular basis, but perhaps you’ll find something. God’s given you so much already, why not this as well!
CARose
CARose
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VociMike
Guest
Just as an aside, the only other time outside of Revelation that God breathes on anything or anyone is in Genesis, when He breathes life into man. Make whatever connections you will.
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neophyte
Guest
Oh my, JM73, I was thinking about you today and wondering if I should speak of baptism and the mikveh.
Yes, they are very strongly connected. I have to be brief right now, but consider:
When Jesus went to the mikveh with John the Baptist, John said that he saw the spirit of God descend on Jesus as he came up out of the water.
Jesus told the woman at the well that if she asked, he would give her living water!!! ('nuff said??)
And in the book of Revelation there’s a scene with the throne room of God, and from the foot of the throne a river of water is gushing forth.
And the Catholic Church teaches that baptism removes the stain of original sin, places a mark of God’s ownership on the person’s soul, and is a vehicle by which God’s grace is given to the individual to help them have faith in Him, love Him, and hope in Him, give them the power to live and act according to the promptings of God, and to grow in goodness through the moral virtues.
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Jew_Man_73
Guest
I hope so. It’s worth looking into, at least.When I encountered it, it was a visiting priest. I don’t know that even in his home parish that he says it in Hebrew on a regular basis, but perhaps you’ll find something. God’s given you so much already, why not this as well!
CARose
J
Jew_Man_73
Guest
Thanks. Interesting.
J
Jew_Man_73
Guest
Thank you very much. That’s exactly what I was wondering. From what I read and from what my roommate told me, it sounded to me like John the Baptist was performing mikvehs. It seems logical to me that actual baptism wouldn’t be instituted until after Jesus went back to Heaven and the Church actually got started. I haven’t gotten to Revelation yet, so I can’t comment on it.
However, just as baptism cleanses the individual of original sin, the mikveh provides a temporary cleansing and is a sign of obedience to G-d. In essence, the mikveh is a sign of G-d’s ownership as well, just as baptism is for Christians. Many of the posters here have told me that Catholicism arose out of Judaism, and that Catholicism is Judaism fulfilled. In my opinion, this is one of the strongest indicators of that. I find this to be extremely interesting.Thanks for your post. If you have any more insights, please post those too.
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