question on abortion

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trav6574:
An 11 year old girl was molested and was impregnated, an abortion was just performed this morning. What is the Churchs’ stance on this?
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First, just because a person is violated (a crime) should not give justification to another crime…an abortion.

I also want to go on record and say that I really do not like this arguement in the first place. I love how the pro-death crowd loves to use this example (and I am not saying that trav6574 is one of these people so don’t kill me here).

The truth is that 99.9% of all abortions are done for one reason…convenience. People just want to be able to have sex with anyone without consequence. Let’s just call abortion what it is…an abomination. It is are duty as Christians to fight until this stupidity has been purged from our society. We can’t call ourselves Christians if we do not.

Brad
 
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sadie2723:
First, just because a person is violated (a crime) should not give justification to another crime…an abortion.

I also want to go on record and say that I really do not like this arguement in the first place. I love how the pro-death crowd loves to use this example (and I am not saying that trav6574 is one of these people so don’t kill me here).

The truth is that 99.9% of all abortions are done for one reason…convenience. People just want to be able to have sex with anyone without consequence. Let’s just call abortion what it is…an abomination. It is are duty as Christians to fight until this stupidity has been purged from our society. We can’t call ourselves Christians if we do not.

Brad
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👍 You said it. Even in this case it’s for “convience”, for the parents of the girl, and the girl herself. Did she asked to be raped, of course not! But does anyone out there really thinks the baby is asking to be killed! Of course not, just like the girl, the baby becomes another yet another victim of a sick society. Every life is a gift from God, no matter what was the circumstances of conception.
 
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estesbob:
HMMM-so you competely dismiss Church teachings from the equation??? Since our Church’s teachngs on this issue is crytsal clear we already know what decison is the right one.
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I consider my personal relationship with God above all else, including any church teachings. Don’t you?
 
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FCEGM:
No. God already has told us what the right decision is, so there is no need to pray to know the answer, only to have the strength to act accordingly.
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There is always a need to pray.
 
Rand Al'Thor:
Peace be with you!

That was my point. You don’t approve of abortion “in [this] situation” but you approve of it in others. YOU ARE APPROVING OF **MURDER **in certain situations. How can you do that??? You say that abortion is murder and you abhor it, and yet you APPROVE OF IT!!! Either you’re against abortion or you’re not. You can’t situationalize something like murder.

In Christ,
Rand
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Ok Rand, losing your wife or the baby. What is your choice?
 
Ok, folks, anybody here believe in capital punishment? If so, that’s murder isn’t?
 
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sadie2723:
The truth is that 99.9% of all abortions are done for one reason…convenience. People just want to be able to have sex with anyone without consequence. Let’s just call abortion what it is…an abomination. It is are duty as Christians to fight until this stupidity has been purged from our society. We can’t call ourselves Christians if we do not.

Brad
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I agree with you on this!! Getting an abortion for convenience sake is an abomination.

However, I’m getting lambasted by your fellow posters for the .1% of the time where abortion could possibly be a distasteful, yet viable option.
 
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mikew262:
I agree with you on this!! Getting an abortion for convenience sake is an abomination.

However, I’m getting lambasted by your fellow posters for the .1% of the time where abortion could possibly be a distasteful, yet viable option.
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And that is the point. The pro-death crowd would like us to believe that things like pregnancy via incest or a mother’s life being in danger via the pregnancy happen every day. They do not. The fact is that they think that hey have the right to choose. No human has the right to choose if an unborn child lives or dies. That is God’s decision.

And, I know that there is someone out there that is going to say that if we do away with legal abortion that we can then expect the rise of back alley abortions. The truth is that we probably can, and that is a tragedy. But, it does not matter where abortions take place. What matters is that they are wrong no matter where they happen.

Now that we have Alito on the court, maybe we can finally put an end to this abomination.

Brad
 
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mikew262:
Nice sidestep. Lose both is your answer?
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The point is that it is not a decision that a human gets to make. It is also very rare. The people who want legal abortion want it for the 99.9% of the cases…where it is done for convenience. Choice is a myth in this sense. The only choice is between right and wrong. There is no middle ground.

Brad
 
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mikew262:
I consider my personal relationship with God above all else, including any church teachings. Don’t you?
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Are you implying that a Catholic’s personal relationship with God could contradict Church teaching? Our consciences are supposed to be formed in line with what the Church teaches because the Church merely passes on what God teaches His faithful.

That is why it would be wrong to put either God or the Church before the other. They aren’t competitors for my favor, but they are my Lord and the family he left behind on earth to lead and guide me toward Him.

God bless.
 
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mikew262:
Ok, folks, anybody here believe in capital punishment? If so, that’s murder isn’t?
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I oppose capital punishment as vigorously as I oppose Abrtion. I have stood in vigil outside abportion clinics and I have stood in vigil outside of The Prison in Huntsville Texas on execution nights. However I am whenever Captail Punishment comes up in a debate about abortion it generally means someon is trying to change the subject . Four points need to be made in this regard before we go too far down this path:
  1. The Church allows of Capital Punishment
  2. Since captial Punishment is legal it can in no way be descibed as murder-the same goes for abortion, IMO.
  3. There is absolutely no moral equivalence between the execution of less than a 100 people a year for crimes they commited and the slaughter of 1.2 million unborn children a year.
  4. It is in no way hypocritical to oppose abortion and support capital punishment
 
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estesbob:
He has an very low opinion of pro-life advocates for one who supposedly is “mostly” pro-life. Has refered to us as “propogandists” and our comments as “pro-life babble”. Reading his posts in other threads it would be fair to infer Mike is liberal and i suspect with abortion he has run into the problem manyLiberals who want to practice their faith do-the Church’s teachings disagree profoundly with the stance of the Political party they support. So although he swears he is pro-life(with a couple of “exceptions”) he can barely hide his contmept for those “neathandral conservatives” who oppose abortion with NO exceptions.
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Well, now that you think you have analysed my thoughts and political party leanings, let me straighten you out.

First off, if I offended you by defending my position to you, I apologize. I do not have a low opinion of pro-lifers, I respect their views, and just because I don’t 100% agree with the “party stance”, doesn’t mean I don’t respect it. It’s quite obvious if somebody doesn’t agree with you, the venom appears almost immediately. BTW, with some very few exceptions I consider myself more pro-life than pro-choice.

Me a liberal? HA! I consider myself a moderate conservative. I almost always agree with the conservative point of view. I believe my views on abortion, which I have outlined, agrees with the President and the Republican party platform.

If I have any contempt, it’s for self-rightous types who treat anybody else who doesn’t absolutely agree with them with contempt. Look at yours and couple of other’s posts. It’s pretty obvious. The only time, I may have gotten out of line is when several of you tried to convince me that pro-choice equals pro-abortion. Pro-life overly aggressive zealots have been throwing this around for years. It angers me. Forgive me for giving in to that anger.
 
Although I personally do not believe in Capital punishment either, I can understand their arguements pertaining to this. A person commited crimes against society. But other then being an “inconvience”, please explain the crime of a baby, that would justify his/her murder?
 
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mikew262:
Well, now that you think you have analysed my thoughts and political party leanings, let me straighten you out.

First off, if I offended you by defending my position to you, I apologize. I do not have a low opinion of pro-lifers, I respect their views, and just because I don’t 100% agree with the “party stance”, doesn’t mean I don’t respect it. It’s quite obvious if somebody doesn’t agree with you, the venom appears almost immediately. BTW, with some very few exceptions I consider myself more pro-life than pro-choice.

Me a liberal? HA! I consider myself a moderate conservative. I almost always agree with the conservative point of view. I believe my views on abortion, which I have outlined, agrees with the President and the Republican party platform.

If I have any contempt, it’s for self-rightous types who treat anybody else who doesn’t absolutely agree with them with contempt. Look at yours and couple of other’s posts. It’s pretty obvious. The only time, I may have gotten out of line is when several of you tried to convince me that pro-choice equals pro-abortion. Pro-life overly aggressive zealots have been throwing this around for years. It angers me. Forgive me for giving in to that anger.
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I forgive you. Still, I have to say it. Pro-Choice does equate to Pro-Abortion. You either approve of it, or you do not. There is no middle ground here no matter what lable you attach to it.

Brad
 
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estesbob:
I oppose capital punishment as vigorously as I oppose Abrtion. I have stood in vigil outside abportion clinics and I have stood in vigil outside of The Prison in Huntsville Texas on execution nights. However I am whenever Captail Punishment comes up in a debate about abortion it generally means someon is trying to change the subject . Four points need to be made in this regard before we go too far down this path:
  1. The Church allows of Capital Punishment
  2. Since captial Punishment is legal it can in no way be descibed as murder-the same goes for abortion, IMO.
  3. There is absolutely no moral equivalence between the execution of less than a 100 people a year for crimes they commited and the slaughter of 1.2 million unborn children a year.
  4. It is in no way hypocritical to oppose abortion and support capital punishment
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While I commend your consistant stance on capital punishment and abortion, to say opposing abortion and supporting capital punishment is in no way hypocritical is laughable.

As some of your fellow posters have said, killing is killing. Sure, I agree, executing a mass murderer morally seems easier than aborting babies, but again, killing is killing.

Cmon, you seem like a pretty smart guy, think this through.
 
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sadie2723:
I forgive you. Still, I have to say it. Pro-Choice does equate to Pro-Abortion. You either approve of it, or you do not. There is no middle ground here no matter what lable you attach to it.

Brad
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Well, I obviously disagree with you, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
 
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ElizabethAnne:
Are you implying that a Catholic’s personal relationship with God could contradict Church teaching? Our consciences are supposed to be formed in line with what the Church teaches because the Church merely passes on what God teaches His faithful.

That is why it would be wrong to put either God or the Church before the other. They aren’t competitors for my favor, but they are my Lord and the family he left behind on earth to lead and guide me toward Him.

God bless.
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Many Catholics do not agree with 100% of the church’s teachings. Many of the teachings are man-made not God-made. Each person has (or should have ) a personal relationship with God.

I use by Christian Catholic faith as a guide to live my life, but most important is my personal relationship with God. He is my life’s ultimate judge. He is the person I seek my guidance from.
 
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kaymart:
But other then being an “inconvience”, please explain the crime of a baby, that would justify his/her murder?
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This is a very tough question. The baby has commited no crime. Again, with very few exceptions, I oppose abortion as much as the next person. However, for instance, when it comes down to a wife/mother or the baby, the medical establishment asks for a choice and the father/husband has to choose or both will die, I cannot fault the husband for choosing his wife. As far as aborting fetuses after a violent rape or incest, I am torn on that. I certainly would insist it should be done within 6 weeks after conception, but I know that offers no comfort to no-exception pro-lifers.
 
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