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Verity1
Guest
Mike, you mentioned Jesus in your last post. Re-read his words to the scribes and pharisees. He didn’t put a sock in it when He had something important to say. Not very polite, I’d say.
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estesbob
Guest
Ok-you have been warned. you’ll have to find out how the groups are moderated the hard way.
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Verity1
Guest
OK. (And you think I’M aggressive!..)
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Brendan
Guest
Challenging them in what way?
And what is your defintion of ‘passing judgement’ ; how would that differ from disagreeing with them on a particular proposition?
If one person said " I consider myself to be a good Catholic" that is subject to little debate, as it is a statement of predisposition on a fact.
But if a person says " I AM a good Catholic", that is a true propostition and could rightly be debated?
For example, if Charles Manson was right in front of you as said " I am a good Catholic", would that not be a subject of legitimate debate?
And would that not be true for any person, after all, there do exist a series of objective criteria to measure against, correct?
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jebojora
Guest
You know, stating the teachings of the Church and the fact that someone is not following those teachings…is not passing judgement. It’s stating facts.
We have the teachings of the Church so we know what is right and wrong. If you are Catholic then you agree with the teachings of the Catholic Church. If you do not agree with ALL the teachings then you are not Catholic you are a Protestant attending the Catholic Church and calling yourself Catholic.
Martin Luther did not agree with ALL the teachings of the Church…he still hung on to some of them…but he was no longer Catholic. Many Protestants agree with some of the teachings of the Catholic Church…that doesn’t make them Catholic.
You can still be a Christian. You can still love God, you can still do good and charitable things in the name of Christ. But being a Catholic means accepting all the teachings of the Church. It is not a democracy or a birth rite.
Based on that, a Catholic can not be pro-choice under any circumstances because the Church teaches it is NEVER acceptable. We must always choose life.
We have the teachings of the Church so we know what is right and wrong. If you are Catholic then you agree with the teachings of the Catholic Church. If you do not agree with ALL the teachings then you are not Catholic you are a Protestant attending the Catholic Church and calling yourself Catholic.
Martin Luther did not agree with ALL the teachings of the Church…he still hung on to some of them…but he was no longer Catholic. Many Protestants agree with some of the teachings of the Catholic Church…that doesn’t make them Catholic.
You can still be a Christian. You can still love God, you can still do good and charitable things in the name of Christ. But being a Catholic means accepting all the teachings of the Church. It is not a democracy or a birth rite.
Based on that, a Catholic can not be pro-choice under any circumstances because the Church teaches it is NEVER acceptable. We must always choose life.
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Bella3502
Guest
I think you will find that most Catholics would disagree with your first statement. Look at all the ones using of birth control instead of NFP.
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estesbob
Guest
You all are making WAY too much of this Is is not a theological discussion. We are merely pointing out to a relatively new member that telling someone that they shouldnt call themselves Cathoicmommy is outside of forum guidelines. I happen to agree that it is problematic to be Catholic and Pro-choice BUT the guidlines says we dont question each others beliefs.
Let me see if I can make this more clear. If you want to say in general that a person shouldnt call themselves catholic if they are pro-choice that is fine. If you single out a specifc poster and tell them they can not call themselves a Catholic you have crossed the line. Its really not that hard to follow.
Having said that dont complain to me-I didnt m,ake up the rules-post anyway you ant and when you find yourself suspended dont say you werent warned.
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Verity1
Guest
“You all are making WAY too much of this Is is not a theological discussion.”
I thought it was you who was making too much of it. And if it isn’t a theological discussion, what the heck is it?
“We are merely pointing out to a relatively new member that telling someone that they shouldnt call themselves Cathoicmommy is outside of forum guidelines.”
I thank you for your concern. Having read the rules, I have not come to that conclusion, but I await the moderators guidelines and will abide by them by shutting up if that’s what they decide.
“I happen to agree that it is problematic to be Catholic and Pro-choice BUT the guidlines says we dont question each others beliefs.”
I don’t see what’s “problematic”. As far as I can see, it’s just not possible to be Catholic and pro-abortion, unless we all agree that sometimes black is white and vice versa. Have we really come to that?
“Let me see if I can make this more clear. If you want to say in general that a person shouldnt call themselves catholic if they are pro-choice that is fine. If you single out a specifc poster and tell them they can not call themselves a Catholic you have crossed the line. Its really not that hard to follow.”
Huh?
“Having said that dont complain to me-”
OK.
“I didnt make up the rules-post anyway you ant and when you find yourself suspended dont say you werent warned.”
OK.
I thought it was you who was making too much of it. And if it isn’t a theological discussion, what the heck is it?
“We are merely pointing out to a relatively new member that telling someone that they shouldnt call themselves Cathoicmommy is outside of forum guidelines.”
I thank you for your concern. Having read the rules, I have not come to that conclusion, but I await the moderators guidelines and will abide by them by shutting up if that’s what they decide.
“I happen to agree that it is problematic to be Catholic and Pro-choice BUT the guidlines says we dont question each others beliefs.”
I don’t see what’s “problematic”. As far as I can see, it’s just not possible to be Catholic and pro-abortion, unless we all agree that sometimes black is white and vice versa. Have we really come to that?
“Let me see if I can make this more clear. If you want to say in general that a person shouldnt call themselves catholic if they are pro-choice that is fine. If you single out a specifc poster and tell them they can not call themselves a Catholic you have crossed the line. Its really not that hard to follow.”
Huh?
“Having said that dont complain to me-”
OK.
“I didnt make up the rules-post anyway you ant and when you find yourself suspended dont say you werent warned.”
OK.
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jebojora
Guest
My point exactly.
I have a friend who identifies herself as Catholic. She misses Mass whenever she doesn’t feel like going, she never goes to confession anymore because she says it’s no longer required. She’s getting her 18 year old on contraception so she can have sex with her boyfriend and she says abortion is okay because the souls of aborted babies just go to another baby.
But she’s in that ever growing “gray” area of those who claim to be Catholic.
It has to be a black and white issue. I don’t think anyone is making too much out of it. These so called Catholics are presenting are part of the reason so many Protestants have no idea what Catholics believe. Catholics don’t know what they believe.
Abortion is black and white. Always murder never an exception.
God is in charge of life…not us. We have devalued life by allowing contraception and now abortion. Catholics must stand united, and they must stand up for life.
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Verity1
Guest
“I think you will find that most Catholics would disagree with your first statement. Look at all the ones using of birth control instead of NFP.”
Well then, “most Catholics” will be wrong to do so. They are not practising the Faith if they are wilfully and of their own free will using artificial birth control, because the Church teaches that this is intrinsically wrong and a mortal sin.
Well then, “most Catholics” will be wrong to do so. They are not practising the Faith if they are wilfully and of their own free will using artificial birth control, because the Church teaches that this is intrinsically wrong and a mortal sin.
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estesbob
Guest
Much discussion about whether this kind of comment is acceptable
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estesbob
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Verity1 said:
You also need to learn how to quote the post you are replying to-the above is impossble to follow.
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Verity1
Guest
Well, let’s see if I can do better this time. As a “relatively new poster” I’m not au fait with the system. Do forgive me.
“You all are making WAY too much of this Is is not a theological discussion.”
I thought it was you who was making too much of it. And if it isn’t a theological discussion, what the heck is it?
“We are merely pointing out to a relatively new member that telling someone that they shouldnt call themselves Cathoicmommy is outside of forum guidelines.”
I thank you for your concern. Having read the rules, I have not come to that conclusion, but I await the moderators guidelines and will abide by them by shutting up if that’s what they decide.
“I happen to agree that it is problematic to be Catholic and Pro-choice BUT the guidlines says we dont question each others beliefs.”
I don’t see what’s “problematic”. As far as I can see, it’s just not possible to be Catholic and pro-abortion, unless we all agree that sometimes black is white and vice versa. Have we really come to that?
“Let me see if I can make this more clear. If you want to say in general that a person shouldnt call themselves catholic if they are pro-choice that is fine. If you single out a specifc poster and tell them they can not call themselves a Catholic you have crossed the line. Its really not that hard to follow.”
Huh?
“Having said that dont complain to me-”
OK.
“I didnt make up the rules-post anyway you ant and when you find yourself suspended dont say you werent warned.”
OK.
Is that any clearer?.
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luvmykids
Guest
Maybe you can be charitable enough to let this new poster know how to do it then, instead of being so critical. I don’t think the way you presented it sounded any nicer than what you are accusing this poster of doing to someone else. Sorry.
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Brendan
Guest
Ahem, then what is it doing in a forum entitled “Moral Theology”
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michaelmac
Guest
Catholic church teaching says all abortion is wrong ,so what happens when the person carrying the child is told she and the baby will die if there is no abortion , so instead of one death you have two. by coming to full term she is commiting suicide ,this is also against Catholic church teaching or so im told yours michaelmac
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Lorarose
Guest
On the topic of abortion, I think Lime5 by Mark Crutcher (Life Dynamics) should be required reading.
Abortion clinics are not good places…at all.
They are filthy…the tables and utensils often do not get sterilized.
The abortionists themselves are often the bottom of the barrel “doctors” who couldn’t cut it in the real world of medicine.
Abortion doctors have sexually and physically abused their patients.
Indeed - at times- they have directly killed them after puncturing their internal organs and leaving them to die.
Often - they do not “complete” the abortion and leave fetal body parts inside the women - causing life threatening infection and bleeding.
Women have died because the abortionist was too embarrassed to call the ambulance - yet again- to his clinic, and waits until it is too late.
The statistics on the deaths due to abortion is probably underreported, because many women will go home and develop an infection. They will then go to a real hospital and die. The cause of death will be listed as infection - not abortion.
You really want to take your daughter to an abortion clinic anyone?
Read Lime5 and then, please, think again.
Abortion clinics are not good places…at all.
They are filthy…the tables and utensils often do not get sterilized.
The abortionists themselves are often the bottom of the barrel “doctors” who couldn’t cut it in the real world of medicine.
Abortion doctors have sexually and physically abused their patients.
Indeed - at times- they have directly killed them after puncturing their internal organs and leaving them to die.
Often - they do not “complete” the abortion and leave fetal body parts inside the women - causing life threatening infection and bleeding.
Women have died because the abortionist was too embarrassed to call the ambulance - yet again- to his clinic, and waits until it is too late.
The statistics on the deaths due to abortion is probably underreported, because many women will go home and develop an infection. They will then go to a real hospital and die. The cause of death will be listed as infection - not abortion.
You really want to take your daughter to an abortion clinic anyone?
Read Lime5 and then, please, think again.
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