Question on Islam -- round 4

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I’ll look into it, Jharek, but if I find anything else to say about it I’ll start a new thread. My main point was that claiming Christianity was opposed to progress makes no sense if one knows the close ties between higher education in the West and the Catholic Church.
 
As long as you continue to engage in unwarranted generalizations and sloppy thinking, people who care about accuracy and fairness are going to call you on it (unless you find a discussion group which agrees with you 100% of the time). It’s as simple as that.

Also, by the way, the medieval civilization you are criticizing was not strictly speaking a theocracy, because there was a head of state (the monarch) and a head of church (the bishop) with clearly defined spheres of influence and power. If you are going to criticize something, it would behoove you to try and learn something about it first.

I can recommend some books if you’re interested.
I’m glad to be called on any inaccuracy I might have said (I’ll never lay claim to perfection)… but so far I see no inaccuracy. What I see honestly is a pretty intolerant outlook that’s not willing to take the high road, but rather one who would rather engage Muslims while dug into a foxhole with your weapon off safe.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve been to Iraq, I’ve seen everything hatred and stupidity has to offer & I say no thanks. I love my country, remain in the Army (more than willing to go again) yet I don’t operate from a premise of hatred. Isn’t it you guys who preach love? Well, where’s your love. Wasn’t it Christ who said turn the other cheek? I don’t see any cheeks turning here, except in the direction of the fight.

That’s all I’m saying. As for me I was raised Roman Catholic, my family remains Catholic (and I love them to death). So I obviously have nothing against Catholics. What I can’t stand is unreasonableness.
 
It sounds like humble in doubt is trying to convince us that paganism, or secularism, is the way to peace. I wonder how this fares when we really look at secularism - no religion - in its full scope. Communism killed more people than Hitler did. And when you talk of a separation of Church and state as in Europe, you are talking about a people who were Christian in their thinking, overall. Not secular, or pagan.
how could you possibly pull paganism out of anything I’ve ever said? If I don’t believe in the bible, why do you think I’d be more predisposed to even more outlandish stories (like Zeus or Odin). Moreover, I’ve appealed to love and forgiveness, are these virtues you suddenly disagree with?
As for the comment about a handful of scientists, and thinkers, (well, actually less) that can be counted as far as what came out of Islam you must keep in mind that handfull was over 1400 years.
So, one cannot make a comment without being misconstrued as being nasty? I only make a comment on the backwardness that Islam brings.
how have I been nasty for goodness sake?
If you look at some of the current news of countries that are newly islamicized you will find out the reason why this backwardness. The children are going to school not to learn the three 'r’s, but to study for hours on end the Quran. The girls, too often, are restricted from going to schools. And that is sad since most won’t even be able to go to a doctor in the future if there are no female doctors.
yes and I sweated for 15 long months in Iraq (will probably be going to Afghanistan in the near future) playing my little part in reforming that country … what have you done lately (besides sit here and judge my motives and try and foster hostility between Christians and Muslims). Thankfully your Pope (and his predecessor) are tempered, stable, and good men who at least try to foster peace.
 
how could you possibly pull paganism out of anything I’ve ever said? If I don’t believe in the bible, why do you think I’d be more predisposed to even more outlandish stories (like Zeus or Odin). Moreover, I’ve appealed to love and forgiveness, are these virtues you suddenly disagree with?

how have I been nasty for goodness sake?

yes and I sweated for 15 long months in Iraq (will probably be going to Afghanistan in the near future) playing my little part in reforming that country … what have you done lately (besides sit here and judge my motives and try and foster hostility between Christians and Muslims). Thankfully your Pope (and his predecessor) are tempered, stable, and good men who at least try to foster peace.
I was in the USMC for 7+ years (exited as a SSgt). I left the USMC to the private sector and I am retired now. I am currently a group leader in Act for America, so I do indeed do things to help America keep her from sliding into sleeping while Islam is on the march even in our own country (stealth jihad - see below for references). So, you are not the only one who is active. 🤷

I do know that our military people like to be thanked and acknowledged for their duty - so, thank you. And I mean that. After studying Islamic history though, I don’t know if our good works over there will last for very long. Especially with Iran breathing over our shoulders. We should be taking them more seriously - no matter how moronic they sound, they believe that wiping out Israel is their Allah’s command, and the West too.

I am afraid we will be back fighting them again if we become too lax. And that makes me sick to think that.

Personally, I am finding your posts hard to follow. So, for now I am not going to pursue this topic with you if you do not mind.

I do not believe that the Church was such a hinderance as you think it was. They certainly had some bad characters, but that was in spite of everything. The ones who kept written records and such were usually Monks. The art is of a superior nature. Science progressed. And you can comment on this but I am not going to keep on going after this.

References:
a couple of books,
‘A Never Ending War’,
‘Stealth Jihad: How Radical Islam is Subverting America without Guns or Bombs’ and
‘They Must Be Stopped: Why We Must Defeat Radical Islam and How We Can Do It’
The Third Jihad - 30 minute version
Brigette Gabriel’s talk at the Thomas More Law Center
 
I was in the USMC for 7+ years (exited as a SSgt). I left the USMC to the private sector and I am retired now. I am currently a group leader in Act for America, so I do indeed do things to help America keep her from sliding into sleeping while Islam is on the march even in our own country (stealth jihad - see below for references). So, you are not the only one who is active. 🤷

I do know that our military people like to be thanked and acknowledged for their duty - so, thank you. And I mean that. After studying Islamic history though, I don’t know if our good works over there will last for very long. Especially with Iran breathing over our shoulders. We should be taking them more seriously - no matter how moronic they sound, they believe that wiping out Israel is their Allah’s command, and the West too.
That’s cool … but don’t you think poverty and ignorance is always exploited by extremists (and dealing with people dug into a zealous religious stance always makes diplomacy more difficult – I’m speaking of course of radical Muslims)? The majority of the Muslim world does not prefer a perpetual war with the west, nor are they deluded into thinking they can convert the whole world to Islam (though a small radical element is this deluded … and they are the enemy, which we can and eventually will defeat).
I am afraid we will be back fighting them again if we become too lax. And that makes me sick to think that.
anything’s possible … but I hope not.
 
** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

A New Convert: Shall I Expose My Past to My Spouse?

Heba - Canada ; I am a new Muslim who married after converting to Islam. In my past life, I was guilty of sins such as dating and fornication. Am I obliged to disclose my past sins to my spouse? I have been told that if I fail to disclose them to my spouse, I will not be forgiven by Allah. Is this true?

Sheikh Ahmad Kutty, Canada, states: … Prophet (peace and blessings be on him) said, “Islam wipes out all the past sins of a person.” Once a person asked the Prophet (peace and blessings be on him), “In my past life (as a non-Muslim) I was guilty of many a trespasses and acts of lewdness; would I be forgiven?” He said, “Didn’t you know that Islam wipes out the past?”

Still on another occasion, one of the men asked the Prophet (peace and blessings be on him), “What about the good works I did in the past such as charities, freeing of slaves, feeding of the poor, etc?” The Prophet (peace and blessings be on him) replied, “You carry with you to Islam all of the good works you did before.”

…Should a person disclose his/her past sins to the spouse? The answer is definitely no. Since Allah has covered a person’s sins, it is not anyone’s business to seek to lift Allah’s cover of confidentiality. Thus it is unbecoming of anyone to probe into someone’s sinful past, especially one’s life before Islam.

…Allah Almighty knows best.

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503546714
 
That’s cool … but don’t you think poverty and ignorance is always exploited by extremists (and dealing with people dug into a zealous religious stance always makes diplomacy more difficult – I’m speaking of course of radical Muslims)? The majority of the Muslim world does not prefer a perpetual war with the west, nor are they deluded into thinking they can convert the whole world to Islam (though a small radical element is this deluded … and they are the enemy, which we can and eventually will defeat).
Yes. But here is the problem in Islam, their teachings tell them to use whatever means to push Islam on the rest of the world - death, conversion or subjugation is the only peace they know. Otherwise, it is an ‘eternal war’. Of course, they twist the meanings of words. They use ‘war’ to mean ‘opening up the world to Islam’. Just as they use ‘innocent’ to throw us off guard, in Islam it only applies to Muslims. No unbeliever is considered to be innocent - not even a baby infidel.

Believe me, the more I dig into Islam the more unsettling it becomes. And wading ones way through it while the Muslims are saying something different. Well, even that can be explainedwith deception being allowed in Islam. It even has a special name, taqiyya/kithman.

But, the history of Jihad is very unsettling. While they tell us that it was a big nothing or that everyone else were the ones who were at fault, the truth lies elsewhere. I have posted this several times and for those who are tired of my reposting this, well get over it.

History of jihad

Keep in mind that the Jihadists are not poor, uneducated or ignorant. What they are are Jihadists who hope to go to heaven by waging Jihad, the most holiest of things that they can do in Islam. And many have been caught on our own shores - and they weren’t poor or ignorant.

The stuff about the poor and ignorant are the usual excuses, and it isn’t only the Muslims that use those excuses but also their apologists. They also use other excuses such as infidels are oppressing them, or the infidels are the aggressors, etc. And it usually ends out not to be the case. People such as Geert Wilders is trying to show the Europeans that this is not the case. Other notables are former muslims such as Nonie Darwish, Walid Shoebat, Ayan Hirsi Ali, the Caner Brothers, Ali Sina, Silas, etc.

Silas has a series of articles one of which - Slavery in islam - I post when referring to slavery that still exists in Islam that so many just ‘fluff’ over. Even the Black Muslims!

Ali Sina runs faithfreedom.org and I blog over there too quite often. He and others have quite a batch of good articles.

Oh and keep in mind - diplomacy in Islam means that if you are an unbeliever you should accept death or subjugation if you do not want to be converted. Otherwise, peace treaties and/or cease fires are to last only 10 years and are to be broken as soon as they are regrouped/rearmed. It is called Hudna.

All of this can be gotten from Islam’s own texts, historians and history.
 
I want to add to that previous post of mine. Diplomacy. Have you noticed that all the diplomacy in the world hasn’t helped the situation in Israel. They want to drive them out. So, now they are looking for some more land, and a little more and a little more.

It is the same situation that the Muslims in the Philippines are wanting. They are bombing and basically what they want is their own land in the Philippines. AS did the Pakistanis wanted from India, and as they want Kashmir and in late 2007 another jihad was declared in India. And let us now forget Bosnia!

Why is it that everyone else is expected to accept them into their lands and live among them peacefully but when their numbers increase to a certain point they are living in communities, growing outward and driving people away from them so as they can expand (and they drive them away via crimes against them) and then when they feel they have enough - boom, they want their own country.

As with the over 700 sensitive urban areas in France that is dangerous for anyone who is not a Muslim to enter, they expect full security when they venture out. This is happening in too many places. % of muslims and % of violence directed against non-muslims

This is what Geert Wilders has been talking about as to what is happening in Europe.

In the USA, if you do decide to look into this further, there are over 30 compounds around the USA that have questionable activity on them. (see the 30 minute clip of the dvd called ‘The Third Jihad’ I don’t know if that has on it what the full length dvd has on it - but it goes into these compounds). Also fox news had a special on these compounds, it was called ‘Homegrown terrorism’. I cannot find a link to it right now, but I have some others that follow.

They have dug bunkers.

Where have the muslims gone from Islamberg? It contains underground bunkers, and that is where they do their firing, and other training.
Sheikh Mubarak Ali Gilani, a Pakistani cleric who served as the imam of the Yasin Masjid in Brooklyn and founder of ‘muslims of America’, ‘We will train you to be like tigers and lions.’
THE OTHER COMPOUNDS

From 1982 to 1992, Gilani established other compounds (called “hamaats”) in such places as Hyattsville, Maryland; Falls Church, Virginia; Red House, Virginia; Macon, Georgia; York, South Carolina; Dover, Tennessee; Buena Vista, Colorado; Talihina, Oklahoma; Tulane Country, California; Squaw Valley, California; Onalaska, Washington, and Toronto, Ontario

homegrown terrorism - over 30 compounds
 
** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

A New Convert: Shall I Expose My Past to My Spouse?

Heba - Canada ; I am a new Muslim who married after converting to Islam. In my past life, I was guilty of sins such as dating and fornication. Am I obliged to disclose my past sins to my spouse? I have been told that if I fail to disclose them to my spouse, I will not be forgiven by Allah. Is this true?

Sheikh Ahmad Kutty, Canada, states: … Prophet (peace and blessings be on him) said, “Islam wipes out all the past sins of a person.” Once a person asked the Prophet (peace and blessings be on him), “In my past life (as a non-Muslim) I was guilty of many a trespasses and acts of lewdness; would I be forgiven?” He said, “Didn’t you know that Islam wipes out the past?”

Still on another occasion, one of the men asked the Prophet (peace and blessings be on him), “What about the good works I did in the past such as charities, freeing of slaves, feeding of the poor, etc?” The Prophet (peace and blessings be on him) replied, “You carry with you to Islam all of the good works you did before.”

…Should a person disclose his/her past sins to the spouse? The answer is definitely no. Since Allah has covered a person’s sins, it is not anyone’s business to seek to lift Allah’s cover of confidentiality. Thus it is unbecoming of anyone to probe into someone’s sinful past, especially one’s life before Islam.

…Allah Almighty knows best.

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503546714
God forbid one is honest with their spouce under islam!

By **not **telling the “truth” you are living in denial, lies and you are being deceitfull to your spouce. Very, very sneaky and dishonorable!
 
Yes. But here is the problem in Islam, their teachings tell them to use whatever means to push Islam on the rest of the world - death, conversion or subjugation is the only peace they know. Otherwise, it is an ‘eternal war’. Of course, they twist the meanings of words. They use ‘war’ to mean ‘opening up the world to Islam’. Just as they use ‘innocent’ to throw us off guard, in Islam it only applies to Muslims. No unbeliever is considered to be innocent - not even a baby infidel.
If you ask me Christianity has some pretty questionable tenants as well. It also glorifies martyrdom, it has also inspired men, countries, churches, etc. to military adventurism (to spread the word by the sword). Look at the crusades, how Christianity was spread in Latin America, etc.

I’m really not sure what the solution is. To me religion seems to be an obstacle to peace. So on balance I think peace is probably only possible if people can transcend the more zealous aspects of their religion. It seems that both Christianity and Islam do have passages in their respective bibles that do allow for peace with those who disagree with them, however, many tend to focus on the elements of their dogma that is not tolerant. Herein lies the challenge for religious people. I think the unstable will always twist whatever they have at their disposal to justify their twisted outlook (whether it’s religion or something else).

Zealotry always inspires an equal and opposite reaction. It only adds fuel to the fire. So what will people listen to? Will people be guided by lust for power or common sense …

It’s the same as everything else … human nature and our collective choices.
 
I’m glad to be called on any inaccuracy I might have said (I’ll never lay claim to perfection)… but so far I see no inaccuracy. What I see honestly is a pretty intolerant outlook that’s not willing to take the high road, but rather one who would rather engage Muslims while dug into a foxhole with your weapon off safe.
If you see no inaccuracy then you haven’t been reading my posts. As for Muslims, I have nothing against them; I think you’re confusing me with someone else.
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve been to Iraq, I’ve seen everything hatred and stupidity has to offer & I say no thanks. I love my country, remain in the Army (more than willing to go again) yet I don’t operate from a premise of hatred. Isn’t it you guys who preach love? Well, where’s your love. Wasn’t it Christ who said turn the other cheek? I don’t see any cheeks turning here, except in the direction of the fight.
Thank you for your military service.
That’s all I’m saying. As for me I was raised Roman Catholic, my family remains Catholic (and I love them to death). So I obviously have nothing against Catholics. What I can’t stand is unreasonableness.
Yet you are unable to see that you are the one who is being unreasonable in the sweeping generalizations you make about religion. I’ve pointed out where you’ve been wrong and you’ve done nothing to refute my claims so I’m at a loss as to what else I can say or do.🤷
 
If you ask me Christianity has some pretty questionable tenants as well. It also glorifies martyrdom, it has also inspired men, countries, churches, etc. to military adventurism (to spread the word by the sword). Look at the crusades, how Christianity was spread in Latin America, etc.

I’m really not sure what the solution is. To me religion seems to be an obstacle to peace. So on balance I think peace is probably only possible if people can transcend the more zealous aspects of their religion. It seems that both Christianity and Islam do have passages in their respective bibles that do allow for peace with those who disagree with them, however, many tend to focus on the elements of their dogma that is not tolerant. Herein lies the challenge for religious people. I think the unstable will always twist whatever they have at their disposal to justify their twisted outlook (whether it’s religion or something else).

Zealotry always inspires an equal and opposite reaction. It only adds fuel to the fire. So what will people listen to? Will people be guided by lust for power or common sense …

It’s the same as everything else … human nature and our collective choices.
You generalize too much on ‘religion is an obstacle to peace’ statement. this is why I stopped the other discussion. I cannot figure out where you are coming from, or maybe you are just thinking while writing.

here is the difference between Christians who become martyrs - not usually by choice while Muslims become martyrs when they kill unbelievers. Maybe listen to Walid Shoebat, a Palestinian ex-muslim PLO guy talk about this martyrdom in Islam.

Walid Shoebat Shoebat’s experiences with what he was taught in islam.. Select the program that says, Talking It Over, PART 1 December 13, 2008.

In the Bible there is no directive to keep on killing for God’s sake. Usually when you read such things it was just what happened at that time.

Those who espouse a lack of religion means peace doesn’t make sense to me either. The lack of religion in communism caused more deaths than Hitler in Stalin’s Russia. This is also true with Mao. Then look at Cuba, etc.

Now we have a secular Europe who are in full political correctness mode, who have no values or have lost them, and let the Muslims just run roughshod over their country and their values.

One does not have to be a fundamentalist to have values. One does not have to be a fundamentalist to stand up for what is right and know what is wrong. And Islam is just wrong on so many levels.
 
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

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…By **not **telling the “truth” !
why ask about the past ? Islam teaches that if u repent sincerely , your sin is forgiven . A human must not dig another person’s life to find out what sins s/he committed in the past .

Also , Islam does not say to confess to any human being . We must confess to God only & ask His forgiveness & must be careful not to repeat the sin/mistake.
 
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

why ask about the past ? Islam teaches that if u repent sincerely , your sin is forgiven . A human must not dig another person’s life to find out what sins s/he committed in the past .

Also , Islam does not say to confess to any human being . We must confess to God only & ask His forgiveness & must be careful not to repeat the sin/mistake.
I stand firmly with my post.
God forbid one is honest with their spouce under islam!

By **not **telling the “truth” you are living in denial, lies and you are being deceitfull to your spouce. Very, very sneaky and dishonorable!
 
I was just reading some hadiths and found this to be of interest and perhaps for discussion:

Volume 9, Book 84, Number 63: Bukhari

Narrated 'Abdullah:

**As if I am looking at the Prophet while he was speaking about one of the prophets whose people have beaten and wounded him, and he was wiping the blood off his face and saying, “O Lord! Forgive my, people as they do not know.” **

The above sounds very familiar to:

Luke 23:34

Then said Jesus, “Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.”

It’s a very interesting passage that mohamad would utter.
 
jakasaki,how did you find this hadith ??

It’s really interesting,I’ve never seen it before…
 
Quote post from another thread - I’m sending my reply here since it has to do with overall islam.
rtconstant said:
Well, that is necessary. When Uthman put the Quran together he did so with an erroneous understanding of the Trinity. He thought that Christians believed in three gods. Since he put this in the Quran, and since Muslims are obligated to believe the Quran is a divine book, they must by default accept what they know is not true. This can lead to all sorts of mixed up thinking.

The fact that all of the beliefs the Church holds today can be documented in the 8th century is really beside the point.

But back to the OP, the Quran does not forbid a Muslim woman to marry a Christian or Jew so the extra scholastic work can be accepted or ignored according to her conscience. Of course this is barring any immediate legal ramifications, such as the act being illegal in her home country.
This most likely to continue and references are given"

The first collection of the Qur’an

Not assembled during the time of Muhammad but copies available

Zaid b. Thabit said:

‘The Prophet died and the Qur’an had **not **been assembled into a single place.’
(p. 118, Ahmad b. Ali b. Muhammad al Asqalani, ibn Hajar, “Fath al Bari”,
13 vols, Cairo, 1939/1348, vol. 9, p. 9)

When people came to Medina to learn about Islam, they were provided with copies of the chapters of the Qur’an, to read and learn them by heart.
(Hamidullah, “Sahifa Hammam ibn Munabbih”, 1070, p. 64)

By Salim

Salim had already ‘collected the Qur’an into a single volume’ – he was the first to collect the Qur’an, and gave it the name mushaf, a word he had heard in Ethiopia,
(p. 121, Jalal al Din Abdul Rahman b. abi Bakr al Suyuti, "al Itqan fi ulum al Qur’an", Halabi, Cairo, 1935/1354, pt 1, p. 58)

I will continue with references…
 
By Abu Bakr

The Muslim sources are thus quite clear that Abu Bakr and `Umar were responsible for the first collection of the Qur’an texts following the death of the Muhammad.

Discordant voices were nonetheless heard, Abu Bakr died and the Qur’an had not been collected; `Umar was killed and the Qur’an had not been collected.’ (p. 229)

Zaid reports,
'Abu Bakr sent for me on the occasion of the deaths of those killed in the Yemama wars. I found Umar b. al Khattab with him. Abu Bakr said, "Umar has just come to me and said, ‘In the Yemama fighting death has dealt most severely with the qurra’ and I fear it will deal with equal severity with them in other theatres of war and as a result much of the Qur’an will perish [d h b].

I am therefore of the opinion that you should command that the Qur’an be collected.’" Abu Bakr added, “I said to Umar, 'How can we do what the Prophet never did?' Umar replied that it was nonetheless a good act. He did not cease replying to my scruples until God reconciled me to the undertaking.”

Abu Bakr continued, “Zaid, you are young and intelligent and we know nothing to your discredit. You used to record the revelations for the Prophet, so pursue the Qur’an and collect it all together.” By God! had they asked me to remove a mountain it could not have been more weighty than what they would now have me do in ordering me to collect the Qur’an.

I therefore asked them how they could do what the Prophet had not done but Abu Bakr insisted that it was permissible. He did not cease replying to my scruples until God reconciled me to the undertaking as He had already reconciled Abu Bakr and `Umar.

I thereupon pursued the Qur’an collecting it all together from palm-branches, flat stones and the memories of men. I found the last verse of sura al Tawba in the possession of Abu Khuzaima al Ansari, having found it with no one else, “There has now come to you…” to the end of the sura.

The sheets [suhuf] that Zaid prepared in this manner remained in the keeping of Abu Bakr.

On his death, they passed to Umar who then bequeathed them on his death to his daughter Hafsa. (p. 118-119, Ahmad b. Ali b. Muhammad al `Asqalani, ibn Hajar, “Fath al Bari”, 13 vols, Cairo, 1939/1348, vol. 9, p. 9. Also Sahih Bukhari vol. VI:509, 510)

Zuhri reports that when slaughter befell the Muslims in the Yemama it was Abu Bakr who feared that many of the qarra’ would perish.
(p. 120, Ahmad b. Ali b. Muhammad al Asqalani, ibn Hajar, “Fath al Bari”, 13 vols, Cairo, 1939/1348, vol. 9, p. 12)

It is said that upward of 700 Companions fell in the Yemama. Sufyan reports that when Salim was slain Umar hastened to Abu Bakr. (p. 120, Ahmad b. Ali b. Muhammad al `Asqalani, ibn Hajar, “Fath al Bari”, 13 vols, Cairo, 1939/1348, vol. 9, p. 9)

The first to collect the Qur’an between two covers was Abu Bakr. awwal man jamaa al Qur'an baina lawhain. (p. 122, Abu Bakr Abdullah b. abi Da’ud, “K. al Masahif”, ed. A. Jeffery, Cairo, 1936/1355, p. 6)

Ali said, 'God bless Abu Bakr! He was the first to collect the Qur'an between two covers', (p. 122, Abu Bakr Abdullah b. abi Da’ud, “K. al Masahif”, ed. A. Jeffery, Cairo, 1936/1355, p. 6)

And again, ‘the greatest reward in respect of the masahif will fall to Abu Bakr for he was the first to collect the text between the two covers.’
(p. 122, Abu Bakr `Abdullah b. abi Da’ud, “K. al Masahif”, ed. A. Jeffery, Cairo, 1936/1355, p. 5)

Hisham b. 'Urwa reports his father as saying,
‘Abu Bakr collected the Qur’an after the death of the Prophet.’
(p. 122, Abu Bakr `Abdullah b. abi Da’ud, “K. al Masahif”, ed. A. Jeffery, Cairo, 1936/1355, p. 6)

Elsewhere we are assured that Zaid first wrote out the Qur’an for Abu Bakr on scraps of leather and on palm-branches. On the death of Abu Bakr, Umar appointed Zaid to transcribe his materials into the sahifa which remained in Umar’s possession.
(p. 123, Ahmad b. Ali b. Muhammad al Asqalani, ibn Hajar, “Fath al Bari”, 13 vols, Cairo, 1939/1348, vol. 9, p. 12)

Zaid says that they had been accustomed to organising the Qur’an from these scraps in the presence of the Prophet.
(p. 123, Jalal al Din Abdul Rahman b. abi Bakr al Suyuti, "al Itqan fi ulum al Qur’an", Halabi, Cairo, 1935/1354, pt 1, p. 57)

Abu Bakr ordered Umar and Zaid to sit in the gate of the mosque and to include in the mushaf only what was vouched for by the testimony of two men. (p. 125, Ahmad b. Ali b. Muhammad al `Asqalani, ibn Hajar, “Fath al Bari”, 13 vols, Cairo, 1939/1348, vol. 9, p. 11)
 
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