Question on Islam -- round 4

[rikkk1958]

Aren’t you guys get the role of Planten? You know Planten changed his last lettter of d to n, He is Planted here in this forum and all he has to do is to repudiate you all with the same tactics he used for so long. So don’t be fooled. All you have to do is understand what he is talking about. It’s a total nonsense to all your arguments.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Aren’t you guys get the role of Planten? You know Planten changed his last lettter of d to n, He is Planted here in this forum and all he has to do is to repudiate you all with the same tactics he used for so long. So don’t be fooled. All you have to do is understand what he is talking about. It’s a total nonsense to all your arguments.

Dang, I learn something new about Planten every day.

Actually I enjoy seeing famdigy and Planten debate in the same thread, since their tactics are so different. One is calm, polite, informative, relevant…the other is…I don’t even know how to describe it.

 

[Jay53]

Dang, I learn something new about Planten every day.

Actually I enjoy seeing famdigy and Planten debate in the same thread, since their tactics are so different. One is calm, polite, informative, relevant…the other is…I don’t even know how to describe it.

I think this describes it perfectly: :hypno:

 

[planten]

Originally Posted by rikkk1958

Aren’t you guys get the role of Planten? You know Planten changed his last lettter of d to n, He is Planted here in this forum and all he has to do is to repudiate you all with the same tactics he used for so long. So don’t be fooled. All you have to do is understand what he is talking about. It’s a total nonsense to all your arguments.

**rikkk, you may think what you like. I am not planted. I am Planten of the “Planten und Blumen”. Did you ever hear about them?

I am not against Moses and Jesus. In this forum, I have learnt a lot about the beliefs of the Catholics. I need not try to hurt your feelings. I know you people have too much feelings and some beliefs. But you do not care whether your beliefs are right or not.

So I will also not point out anything bad of your beliefs. That is because you do ot like anything from me. I will try to be patient and I will hope that you will control your passions and abuse of our prophet too. That is a resonable request.

You need not downplay Islam. There is no need. You can always preach the good points of church or bible teachings. Nobody will object. Nobody will stop you. There is no use bringing up any bad points about other’s faith. Please note all the abuse and try to speak out against it. There will be complete calm and peace on the forum.

There are many types of non-catholics here. There are Muslims and other non-Muslims non-Catholics too. What is the use of starting adverse threads about Islam?? If such threads are started then the Muslims will do their duty by all means. Then christians should be content with the replies of the Muslims, planten and others.

All the Muslims will confront the Catholics and they will point out the weakness in your scripture. Then You will need to be patient. I never intended to hurt the feelings of the christians. I believe in Love for All. Hatred for None.
**

 

[dzheremi]

I never intended to hurt the feelings of the christians. I believe in Love for All. Hatred for None.

Yeah…this week…

 

[Jay53]

Another general Islam question:

With regard to this passage:

Matthew 16:13-19

Now Jesus Having come into the district of Caesarea Philippi, began to ask his disciples, saying, “Who do men say the Son of Man is?” But they said, “Some say, John the Baptist; and others Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.” He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answered and said, “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Then Jesus answered and said, “Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to thee, but my Father in heaven. And I say to thee, thou art Peter, and Upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

What church do Muslims believe Jesus was establishing and do they believe that the gates of hell have prevailed in leading Christians to worship Jesus as God which Muslims view as the ultimate offense punishable by eternity in hell?

 

[Jay53]

Bump

 

[Aydan]

Bump

well I have a pretty good idea of what the answer is but some folks were complaining that we answered the question before the Muslims so I was holding off to see if they would answer. Their answer to your question would most likely be that Jesus was either misunderstood misquoted or the more common argument that Paul made everything up that’s the argument they use to explain away why Christians can drink alcohol and eat pork I’ve seen it used by Muslim scholars on several occasions. Muslims think that Paul invented parts of the New Testament to suit his own agenda. I could provide sources if you want them. Muslims feel free to tell me if I’m wrong on this.

 

[Jay53]

Thank you Aydan for your post. I am still hopeful that some of our Muslim posters here will contribute their opinion to this subject.

With regard to this passage:

Matthew 16:13-19

Now Jesus Having come into the district of Caesarea Philippi, began to ask his disciples, saying, “Who do men say the Son of Man is?” But they said, “Some say, John the Baptist; and others Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.” He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answered and said, “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Then Jesus answered and said, “Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to thee, but my Father in heaven. And I say to thee, thou art Peter, and Upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

What church do Muslims believe Jesus was establishing and do they believe that the gates of hell *have *prevailed in leading Christians to worship Jesus as God which Muslims view as the ultimate offense punishable by eternity in hell?

 

[Angel7]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

It was explained to you already. If u are not satisfied , sorry we have no new answer for u .

For those who don’t know : Prophet was discussing about Islam with tribal leaders. He thought if one leader accepts Islam , the whole group will follow him . So , during the discussion when a man interrupted him more than once, Prophet just frawned without scolding / shouting .

God corrected his this mistake . Guidance come from God only. So , Prophet should have talked to that person who willingly came to know about Islam rather than those leaders who were not interested about the Truth.

Prophet did not want money or other things in exchange of preaching of oneness of God. His answer of this kind of proposal was : if they were to put the sun in my right hand and the moon in my left hand to stop me from preaching Islam, I would never stop. I will keep preaching until Allah makes Islam prevail or I die."

Although Jesus and Muhammed are supposed to be preaching the same G-d. Muhammed spreads the “religion of Peace” in a very militant way.

Jesus Preached to the Poor, not to the scholars or the scribes, He chose Fishermen to be his disciples, men that worked for a living, the real “work”, men with caullused hands. Jesus turned fishermen into “Fishers of men”

Jesus preached to the poor to spread the word of G-d. so that the Rich would not gain credit and say "oh ya, I was the one that spread Christianity to Turkey, you know, just sent some of my scribes over to preach.’ NO!!! Jesus chose the poor, and the humble, and the weak-in-spirit, to spread the word, not rich men, because if rich men spread the gospel, people would think it was spread by his/her abilities. If the Poor spread the word, they know that it is G-d that moves them, and not by their abilities, but by G-d’s grace was the word spread.

 

[Angel7]

Note, Islam goes in circles in Many subjects.
It even Contradicts itself.
The Koran says that Jesus was not crucified (he was), and that the Gospels, and the bibles were altered over time. (where is the proof). However, at one point (I believe) Mohammed said the Gospels were completely accurate (correct me if im wrong).
Islam not only contradicts the teachings of Jesus, but it Contradicts Itself!?!?!?!

Truth can NOT contradict Truth. Its impossible.
Light does not shadow Light.
Good does not Diminish Good.
How does the “truth” of the Koran Contradict itself?! what does this show of Islam?

The Catholic Church doesn’t make people Blindly follow a certain doctrine. It encourages, people to ask questions, and learn, it does not contradict itself Ever.

I understand the Vatican recognizes Muslims worship the Same god as Jews and Christians.
However Mohammed preached in a way very different, almost at times opposite, to what Jesus taught.

(Forgive me if my remarks offend anyone, or if they’re innacurate. Im Just trying to stir your Brains into thinking about it}

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Note, Islam goes in circles in Many subjects.
It even Contradicts itself.
The Koran says that Jesus was not crucified (he was), and that the Gospels, and the bibles were altered over time. (where is the proof). However, at one point (I believe) Mohammed said the Gospels were completely accurate (correct me if im wrong).
Islam not only contradicts the teachings of Jesus, but it Contradicts Itself!?!?!?!

Truth can NOT contradict Truth. Its impossible.
Light does not shadow Light.
Good does not Diminish Good.
How does the “truth” of the Koran Contradict itself?! what does this show of Islam?

It’s a major intellectual dishonesty in Islamic apologetics. They say the Bible is tarnished…but oh, no wait! Here’s a passage of scripture we can use to try and prove Islam! Or better yet, they start out using passages of scripture, until a Christian points out the flaw in their context, and then suddenly it’s…oh! The Bible must have been changed later to include that!

The fact is the Koran says over and over again that the Torat and Injil (Torah and Gospel) were sent down by God as a sign to the people, but then claims people “hide” scripture or change it, without presenting evidence. There are even hadith where companions of the prophet and early Muslim leaders tell the Muslims to just ignore Jewish/Christian scripture and read the Koran. Hence even in the early days of Islam the followers of the religion were grounded in weak apologetics and understanding of comparative religion.

 

[Jay53]

Thank you Aydan for your post. I am still hopeful that some of our Muslim posters here will contribute their opinion to this subject.

With regard to this passage:

Matthew 16:13-19

Now Jesus Having come into the district of Caesarea Philippi, began to ask his disciples, saying, “Who do men say the Son of Man is?” But they said, “Some say, John the Baptist; and others Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.” He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answered and said, “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Then Jesus answered and said, “Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to thee, but my Father in heaven. And I say to thee, thou art Peter, and Upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

What church do Muslims believe Jesus was establishing and do they believe that the gates of hell *have *prevailed in leading Christians to worship Jesus as God which Muslims view as the ultimate offense punishable by eternity in hell?

Where are all our Muslim posters? Do any of them have an opinion about this?

 

[Jay53]

Bump again.

Originally Posted by Jay53
Thank you Aydan for your post. I am still hopeful that some of our Muslim posters here will contribute their opinion to this subject.

With regard to this passage:

Matthew 16:13-19

Now Jesus Having come into the district of Caesarea Philippi, began to ask his disciples, saying, “Who do men say the Son of Man is?” But they said, “Some say, John the Baptist; and others Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.” He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answered and said, “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Then Jesus answered and said, “Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to thee, but my Father in heaven. And I say to thee, thou art Peter, and Upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

What church do Muslims believe Jesus was establishing and do they believe that the gates of hell have prevailed in leading Christians to worship Jesus as God which Muslims view as the ultimate offense punishable by eternity in hell?

Where are all our Muslim posters? Do any of them have an opinion about this?

 

[Aydan]

Bump again.

well since no one else responded I found this this guy is a former Christian preacher who converted to Islam and like I said before they dismiss the Bible verse you’re talking about because they believe that the Bible is corrupted and that Paul made up his own teachings and founded Christianity. Now that this is from a Muslim I hope you find the answer you are seeking because I don’t think you’re going to get much closer than this judging by the inactivity on this thread.
islamnewsroom.com/answers-to-questions-mainmenu-26/86-godtoldme.html

 

[planten]

**You all Catholics are having good discussion amongst yourself against Islam. We Muslims should not spoil your feast. have a good time celebrating your religion which is based only on some unbelieveable ideas. You just want the people to beleive whatever you say. Many people have revolted against those ideas and they have become atheists.

So what else do you want? If only you could convince your faith people i.e. JW’s and Mormons and some Jews, it would be good thing. But Alas. Such a thing will never happen. You are towing your load along by throwing debris upon Islam.**

 

[Aydan]

**You all Catholics are having good discussion amongst yourself against Islam. We Muslims should not spoil your feast. have a good time celebrating your religion which is based only on some unbelieveable ideas. You just want the people to beleive whatever you say. Many people have revolted against those ideas and they have become atheists.

So what else do you want? If only you could convince your faith people i.e. JW’s and Mormons and some Jews, it would be good thing. But Alas. Such a thing will never happen. You are towing your load along by throwing debris upon Islam.**

did you even read what I just said if you want to discount a practicing Muslim and one of your own scholars from his opinion on the subject not my problem I’m sure he would love to hear you think he is against Islam! Since when is asking the question about Islam being against Islam? If you’re not going to read what people write then why even answer in the first place?

 

[elwill]

Thank you Aydan for your post. I am still hopeful that some of our Muslim posters here will contribute their opinion to this subject.

With regard to this passage:

Matthew 16:13-19

Now Jesus Having come into the district of Caesarea Philippi, began to ask his disciples, saying, “Who do men say the Son of Man is?” But they said, “Some say, John the Baptist; and others Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.” He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answered and said, “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Then Jesus answered and said, “Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to thee, but my Father in heaven. And I say to thee, thou art Peter, and Upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

**What church do Muslims believe Jesus was establishing and do they believe that the gates of hell *have ***prevailed in leading Christians to worship Jesus as God which Muslims view as the ultimate offense punishable by eternity in hell?

we don’t think that jesus (pbuh) established any church , we believe that the founder of christianity is paul, not jesus

and yes we believe that the gates of hell *have *prevailed in leading Christians to worship Jesus as God

 

[Aydan]

we don’t think that jesus (pbuh) established any church , we believe that the founder of christianity is paul, not jesus

and yes we believe that the gates of hell *have *prevailed in leading Christians to worship Jesus as God

Wow, I had it almost right. The only thing I missed was the gates of hell. My Turkish training is paying off in more ways than one.

 

[ZAKI]

Wow, I had it almost right. The only thing I missed was the gates of hell. My Turkish training is paying off in more ways than one.

wasalam