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Jay53
Guest
Then what did Jesus mean by His statement?
And why is St. Peter the first Pope? Or did St. Paul make that up too?
Are Muslims as anti-St. Peter as they are St. Paul?
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And why is St. Peter the first Pope? Or did St. Paul make that up too?
Are Muslims as anti-St. Peter as they are St. Paul?
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Jay53
Guest
I guess you were right, Aydan.Wow, I had it almost right. The only thing I missed was the gates of hell. My Turkish training is paying off in more ways than one.
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ZAKI
Guest
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Byzantine_Wolf
Guest
Grand revelation: Islam is open theism.
Course not.
Planten is like a bad actor who doesn’t really respond to what his co-stars do, he just waits for them to quit speaking and then reads his scripted lines.
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Jay53
Guest
why the sad face bro?
wasalam
Because Aydan was right - she had the “excuse/explanation” pegged. I still would like to know what Muslims think Jesus meant by His statement and what their view is of St. Peter (and the successive Popes after him.)
And it’s “sis”, not “bro” - at least last time I checked!
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Aydan
Guest
Yes Jay you are correct I’m a sister but I give people a break because people who don’t speak Turkish don’t realize it’s a female Turkish name. but in this case he’s referring to you as a brother saying why the sad face brother Jay?Because Aydan was right - she had the “excuse/explanation” pegged. I still would like to know what Muslims think Jesus meant by His statement and what their view is of St. Peter (and the successive Popes after him.)
And it’s “sis”, not “bro” - at least last time I checked!
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jakasaki
Guest
Just stay with me here for a moment Jay -
On:
7.31.09 you ask a question for the muslim members to answer
8.02.09 you bump because you have no answer from our muslim members
From:
8.03.09 through 8.05.09 various posters reply but no muslim members
On:
8.05.09 you post a question again
8.07.09 you bump again because no answer from our muslim members
And then behold,** 9 days later after you asking several times **you get this from a muslim member:
Typical!
On:
7.31.09 you ask a question for the muslim members to answer
8.02.09 you bump because you have no answer from our muslim members
From:
8.03.09 through 8.05.09 various posters reply but no muslim members
On:
8.05.09 you post a question again
8.07.09 you bump again because no answer from our muslim members
And then behold,** 9 days later after you asking several times **you get this from a muslim member:
Not a sigle muslim member replied to your inquiry and now you get “discussion amongst yourself” statement.
Typical!
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Aydan
Guest
jakasaki just to be fair elwill did provide an answer to the question
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Jay53
Guest
I knew that.
I gave him my reason for the sad face and was telling him that* I *am a sister, not a brother.
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jakasaki
Guest
Indeed, I missed that one…
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Jay53
Guest
I just feel bad and confused, because I asked a genuine question. I’m not trying to “bait” anyone or be antagonistic. I genuinely don’t understand how Islam attracts converts because of the contradictions with previous scriptures. I’m just trying to understand their view on various points of Christianity. Perhaps these are verses that they have never read or have not been exposed to before and that is why they have no answer.
I just would like to know what Muslims believe Jesus meant by His statement and then how they view the Papacy of St. Peter in light of that. I understand that there is some animosity towards St. Paul (although I really don’t know why), but St. Paul was not the only apostle/disciple back then. There has been a succession of Popes all the way from St. Peter until now (and St. Paul was NOT one of them) - including through the time of Muhammad. St. Peter was a direct disciple of Jesus - has he been corrupted too - and if so, when, where, how?
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Aydan
Guest
oh this is an easy one they don’t believe Jesus ever said anything about building a church at all they say that Paul simply lied about what Jesus said and made the whole thing up. And yes they don’t believe Peter was the first Pope they believe that Paul invented that also so yes they are anti-St. Peter as well.
Then what did Jesus mean by His statement?
And why is St. Peter the first Pope? Or did St. Paul make that up too?
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Aydan
Guest
Well Jay I can tell you in my experience most Muslims in the Turkish culture I know would not react that way when you ask a question like that so please don’t judge all Muslims by this one reaction they are not all like that at all. Especially Turkish Muslims and you don’t need to feel bad about asking questions I do it all the time. And for the record my Turkish friends asked me questions about Christianity and it’s no big deal so please don’t judge people by this one reaction.I just feel bad and confused, because I asked a genuine question. I’m not trying to “bait” anyone or be antagonistic. I genuinely don’t understand how Islam attracts converts because of the contradictions with previous scriptures. I’m just trying to understand their view on various points of Christianity. Perhaps these are verses that they have never read or have not been exposed to before and that is why they have no answer.
I just would like to know what Muslims believe Jesus meant by His statement and then how they view the Papacy of St. Peter in light of that. I understand that there is some animosity towards St. Paul (although I really don’t know why), but St. Paul was not the only apostle/disciple back then. There has been a succession of Popes all the way from St. Peter until now (and St. Paul was NOT one of them) - including through the time of Muhammad. St. Peter was a direct disciple of Jesus - has he been corrupted too - and if so, when, where, how?
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jakasaki
Guest
Aydan,
While Jay is waiting for an answer, can you answer this for me.
I have 3 Turkish muslim friends who are very dear and near to me and have been friends with them for many decades.
Anyway, they smoke cigs and they drink alcohol. But they do not eat pork.
Now, they do join us for holidays and BBQ’s and they don’t care that we eat pork.
And while my dad was alive and well, they would visit him and mom for BBQ’s and such and would bring a bottle of something called “Araki” ← ? spelling
My question is this. Do the majority of **Turkish **muslim drink alcohol and smoke cigs?
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Jay53
Guest
Don’t worry - I won’t judge them! Sometimes I just don’t understand because the posters here seem to jump all over the anti-Israel, pro-Palestinian threads and give their opinions, but I ask a genuine question and it gets largely ignored by them.
Are you saying that Muslims think St. Paul wrote part of the Gospel of Mattew and made up that statement and that he invented the Papacy of St. Peter - St. Peter was never really Pope.??? What about the succession of Popes since then? I think it was St. Linus after that - did Paul make up his papacy too? And what do Muslims think happened to St. Peter? If you are correct and Muslims believe that St. Peter had a different Gospel than what has been passed down through the Church, then wouldn’t that necessarily mean that God did not preserve His Word?
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Hadi
Guest
one thing to keep in mind… what if we don’t answer these questions , and what if we answered wrong …
as far as I know, most Muslims here are under the age of 25 and I think we are only 5 members here…most of us know little about our religion let alone other religions…but some of you are putting higher expectations from us…
when I first saw you last question, I didn’t answer,because I don’t know the answer,but now I feel that I have to
here is what I personally believe :
I believe only in the Torah and the Quran …I reject the authority of all the others…
but I putting an extra effort to understand the 4 gospels and the history of the early church…
First, one shouldn’t think the “church” mentioned by Jesus is the Roman Catholic Church,because from day one,the Christians were split into different churches and sects…so no one could say for certainty that this particular church is what Jesus meant…
Second, I believe that Jesus was a Reformer to Judaism at that time,he had no interest to establish a new religion…maybe a synagogue where they teach the Torah and keep the laws …but definitely not the Catholic Church as we know it today
again,as much I like to answer all the questions here,sometimes I don’t have the answer and sometimes busy …just give us time or maybe join an Islamic forum
as far as I know, most Muslims here are under the age of 25 and I think we are only 5 members here…most of us know little about our religion let alone other religions…but some of you are putting higher expectations from us…
when I first saw you last question, I didn’t answer,because I don’t know the answer,but now I feel that I have to
here is what I personally believe :
I believe only in the Torah and the Quran …I reject the authority of all the others…
but I putting an extra effort to understand the 4 gospels and the history of the early church…
First, one shouldn’t think the “church” mentioned by Jesus is the Roman Catholic Church,because from day one,the Christians were split into different churches and sects…so no one could say for certainty that this particular church is what Jesus meant…
Second, I believe that Jesus was a Reformer to Judaism at that time,he had no interest to establish a new religion…maybe a synagogue where they teach the Torah and keep the laws …but definitely not the Catholic Church as we know it today
again,as much I like to answer all the questions here,sometimes I don’t have the answer and sometimes busy …just give us time or maybe join an Islamic forum
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Hadi
Guest
Could you please present some documents written by the first three Popes ,regarding their beliefs about Jesus and the bible.
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Aydan
Guest
sure no problem I had the very same question basically there’s two groups of Muslims in Turkey and my teacher said it’s about 50-50 you have the devout Muslims who do not eat pork or drink any alcohol whatsoever and they pray and fast during Ramadan and so on. Then there’s the other 50% of Turkish Muslims who drink alcohol who don’t fast or pray but nearly all Turks pay attention to what food is forbidden and allowed in Islam that’s very important to Turks so the vast majority don’t eat pork because that’s ingrained in the Turkish culture. It’s akin to our cafeteria Catholics so that’s why your friends smoke and drink but do not eat pork. Yes smoking is quite common in Turkey I’m not sure how common cigars are as compared to cigarettes but I do know smoking is a common practice. I hope this answers your question.
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jakasaki
Guest
Yes, thanks Aydan -
I also know other Turkish muslim guys who own & run gas stations around town also smoke and drink.
I guess we have the other “50” % living here in NY.
Be well,
A
Aydan
Guest
I’m quite sure you have a good mix like we do I have friends in both categories.
Peace
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