Questioning Patriotism

[Thekla]

aimee:

Good post.

I have come across some folks on this forum described on the ‘list’.

Do tell. I read the list and could not care less if I fit everything on it because it’s just more of the same mindless rhetoric we’ve come to know from those in our government. It’s always a sign of desperation when people have to fall back on patriotism and hiding behind the troops; they have no defense for their own actions and resort to political hackery.

The fact remains that a majority of Americans believe that the president deliberately misled the country for war. To that neither he nor his supporters have any coherent response.

But this is standard operating procedure with many who, if they were on fire, would continue to say all is well and the administration is the greatest thing since sliced bread. They say that the truth shall set you free, but not from what I’ve seen. It apparently drives many to desperate and unkind words and deeds; to turn on their fellow citizens in some smart-aleck way; to choose politicians over their neighbors.

 

[Elaine_s_Cross]

gilliam:

You might be unpatriotic if:

deanesmay.com/posts/1131804246.shtml

Sorry, but frankly, my dear, I think it’s fascist rubbish.

 

[Elaine_s_Cross]

gilliam:

Have you signed up to help win the war or is complaining after the fact, for the sake of complaining, really helping? .

I complained before the war, the night of the attack and ever since. If we’re wrong, we’re wrong. Admit it, and do the right thing.

 

[Elaine_s_Cross]

rlg94086:

You may be too old to know this, but the world has changed. Those who attacked us this time are not affiliated with any country, but they are supported by some. Saddam Hussein fully supported their actions, while not directly behind them. Our administration made it clear that we were going after terrorists and the governments that support them.

So I guess it would have been right for the Soviet Union to have attacked us because we were funding Osama bin Laden’s fight against them in Afghanistan?

 

[Elaine_s_Cross]

gilliam:

No one is saying it sin’t protected speech and no one is saying that my son and his buddies aren’t going into harms way to protect that speech for you.

I will pray that your son seeks conscientous objector status.

 

[MikeWM]

Thekla:

Do tell. I read the list and could not care less if I fit everything on it because it’s just more of the same mindless rhetoric we’ve come to know from those in our government. It’s always a sign of desperation when people have to fall back on patriotism and hiding behind the troops; they have no defense for their own actions and resort to political hackery.

Agreed 100%. If patriotism is being re-defined as blindly accepting the actions of your government no matter what, than I’m more than happy to not be called a patriot (under that definition).

Mike

 

[gilliam]

Elaine's Cross:

I will pray that your son seeks conscientous objector status.

Why course my son by praying for something he does not wish and does not need? Please pray for his safety and that he will honor his as he fights for your freedom.

 

[gilliam]

MikeWM:

Agreed 100%. If patriotism is being re-defined as blindly accepting the actions of your government no matter what,

It isn’t. Read the articles, that is not what I am saying. TigerHawk pulled out an old essay to answer this age-old debate in American on what is proper dissent in a country at war. The Iraq War is not the first time this country has seen dissenters, and neither was Vietnam. Glenn Reynolds revived the “discussion” as well, yesterday.

 

[Elaine_s_Cross]

gilliam:

Why course my son by praying for something he does not wish nor does not need? Please pray for his safety and that he will honor his as he fights for your freedom.

Does not wish nor does not need? If our actions are immoral, I will pray for his soul as I did my nephew when he was in Iraq. I will also pray for his physical safety, but I think the soul is much more important.

Sorry, but I don’t need your son, my nephew, or anyone else’s relative to fight for my “freedom” in Iraq. If need be, I need them to fight Washington, the Patriot Act, the No Child Left Behind Act, and un-Constitutional government in general, whether it be the Republicans or the Democrats in charge.

 

[gilliam]

Elaine's Cross:

Does not wish nor does not need? If our actions are immoral, .

They are not. We are there trying to make the country stable and free and fighting terrorists who blow up civilians to try to gain power. The Vatican has asked us to stay until there is stability. No, our actions there are not now immoral. I don’t know where you are getting that from.

 

[Wondering_Waif]

gilliam:

Why course my son by praying for something he does not wish and does not need? Please pray for his safety and that he will honor his as he fights for your freedom.

I will definitely pray for his safety. Please tell him I said thank you for his service to my country. I understand your pride.

 

[gilliam]

Wondering Waif:

I will definitely pray for his safety. Please tell him I said thank you for his service to my country. I understand your pride.

Thank you, especially for the prayers

 

[Wondering_Waif]

gilliam:

Thank you, especially for the prayers

I’m leaving, but I truly appreciate all that he has done. God bless!

 

[aimee]

Thekla:

Do tell. I read the list and could not care less if I fit everything on it because it’s just more of the same mindless rhetoric we’ve come to know from those in our government. It’s always a sign of desperation when people have to fall back on patriotism and hiding behind the troops; they have no defense for their own actions and resort to political hackery.

The fact remains that a majority of Americans believe that the president deliberately misled the country for war. To that neither he nor his supporters have any coherent response.

But this is standard operating procedure with many who, if they were on fire, would continue to say all is well and the administration is the greatest thing since sliced bread. They say that the truth shall set you free, but not from what I’ve seen. It apparently drives many to desperate and unkind words and deeds; to turn on their fellow citizens in some smart-aleck way; to choose politicians over their neighbors.

I wonder where yout anger comes from…sad really…your’e wrong , of course…but I’m sure you’ll deny it …
God Bless

 

[aimee]

gilliam:

Thank you, especially for the prayers

I pray for our military each evening and will include your son…

 

[jman507]

If you ask me, it really seems someone could dissent from the war but yet not violate those ten things.

As for me, I supported the war ever since Clinton first proposed it. I didn’t care much for Saddam after hearing among other things that he gassed so many Kurds. He invaded another country & supported terrorism. It seemed he did nothing to end the sanctions, but continued a cat and mouse game with weapon expectors after he claimed he had WMD after the first war.

 

[mjdonnelly]

JOHNYJ:

He sent not enough troops there with not enough equiment, no body armour and no armour on the HUmvees.

Don’t know much about the military do you?

Soldiers sent into combat zones had body armor, staging areas may be hazardous, but are not comabt zones.

President has no control over the number of vests ordered, or amount of armor available for HMMVVs, that is controlled by the individual branches and can be slowed by any number of factors. Including suppliers not being able to keep up with demand.

Soldiers have a job to do, and do it with what they have. Not all units have, or can have the very best equipment at all times. Equipment is traded from one unit to the next as they are rotated in and out of zones.

 

[mjdonnelly]

Elaine's Cross:

So I guess it would have been right for the Soviet Union to have attacked us because we were funding Osama bin Laden’s fight against them in Afghanistan?

Technically, yes. That was the whole cold war. We fought against Russia through the people of Korea, Vietnam, Iran/Iraq, and rebels in Afghanistan.

 

[mjdonnelly]

Elaine's Cross:

I will pray that your son seeks conscientous objector status.

How embarrassing.

 

[davy39]

Wondering Waif:

Different war, different reaction. You may be too young to know this but Japan attacked America on our own space.

Well, I was a very young child during WW2, but is everybody saying that we should wait until actual missles, or suitcase dirty bombs with some countrys name on it are exploded in this country before we do anything? The alternative is to try to stop it before it starts. If we really had any idea of some of the close calls we’ve had in this country in the last ten years with terriorism, we would probably be shocked. Even though we have a free press, we don’t read everything in the paper or on the internet.