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edwest211
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Same old same old. With no change.
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Wozza
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Come up with some new arguments and you’ll get some new responses. You get the same ol’ same ol’ because you keep presenting the same ol’ same ol’.
I mean, do you want to count the times we have seen the same posts from you time after time after time. And that whale diagram…that must have been posted at least a dozen times.
Time to change the song book, Ed. You make it too easy.
I mean, do you want to count the times we have seen the same posts from you time after time after time. And that whale diagram…that must have been posted at least a dozen times.
Time to change the song book, Ed. You make it too easy.
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edwest211
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On the contrary, both sides refuse to relinquish their playbooks as evidenced by the recently closed mega-thread.
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Michael_Anthony
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Here are the best answers I can come up with:
- I believe it was Pope St. John Paul the Great (but maybe it was Pope Benedict XVI) who said that evolution was a credible theory as to the development of life on earth. Original sin fits, in that, while humanity may have evolved (through God’s guidance) there would necessarily be only 2 true humans (Adam and Eve) who were the first to have both human biology, and an immortal, rational soul. These two then did something forbidden by God which is original sin.
- Why do you say everything appears random in nature, while the locations of certain things seem random, there remains a logical pattern to it all. If we could scientifically know all the meteoric collisions and everything that ever happened to a meteor, we could explain why it is where it is, and looks the way it does, everything follows natural patterns we call physics. In other words, even the most arbitrarily random things are still logical and follow rules. Natural selection follows this pattern, beings evolve to survive, until recently, only those able to exercise some advantage could survive, so certain traits that were advantageous, were propagated, and ones that were disadvantageous resulted in accelerated death. As such, each being maximized some trait that enabled it to attain what is needed to survive, for humanity, that would be our ingenuity, and ability to make things both large, and delicate, which, when put together, enable us to surpass our inherent limits, we can’t run fast enough to catch many animals, but we can create something (a bow and arrow for instance) which can fly fast enough to catch them. This is one-way natural selection and humanity make sense. It is very obvious in Galapagos finches, when there is a drought, and the only seeds available are large and hard to crack, the finches more often have large strong beaks that can crack the seeds and eat, when there is an abundance of water, the small seeds become prevalent, and seeds with small beaks that can get to the seeds become prevalent. Likewise, God can use this to guide us into a being that is optimized for rationality, for being able to understand, explore, care for, and create.
- Because they each served some purpose in their own time, what that was we may not understand fully, but perhaps one explanation is that God made the dinosaurs because he knew that we would find them interesting. God seems to delight in creating things for us to delight in.
- Human consciousness can be viewed as intentional because it exists beyond the natural function. If it were merely biology, then there would be no free will, and no ability to over-ride instinct, simply a repeating loop of stimuli and responses. Further people have out-of-body experiences, and some people who have died and been resuscitated have reported awareness, even when in every medical way they were dead, this means something beyond their brain was still experiencing something. (1/2)
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Michael_Anthony
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While I am not too familiar with any books or the like, I would recommend you checking out Franciscan University of Steubenville, they do a lot of work in the area of Fides et Ratio (Faith and Reason) and probably have a resource, or course that could help you. (2/2)
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Techno2000
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Other than photosynthesis, what did the first organisms on earth eat ?
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Wozza
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But we only have one side making the fallacious arguments and t’other side refuting them. If you keep saying that there are no contemporaneous examples of organsims transitioning then what else can one do but make a list of a few that obviously are.
And then wait until someone new turns up and prompts the same ridiculous argument.
And fat chance anyone gets a reply akin to: ‘Oh yeah. Missed those. Fair enough’. They are just ignored and then the same nonsense regurgitated a few weeks down the line.
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edwest211
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Both sides are capable of ignoring anything and continuing on as if a particular post never existed. Or complaining that the post is not ‘what they want to hear’ from the Church, not me.
In the book, Benedict reflected on a 1996 comment of his predecessor, John Paul II, who said that Charles Darwin’s theories on evolution were sound, as long as they took into account that creation was the work of God, and that Darwin’s theory of evolution was “more than a hypothesis.”
“The pope (John Paul) had his reasons for saying this,” Benedict said. “But it is also true that the theory of evolution is not a complete, scientifically proven theory.”
Benedict added that the immense time span that evolution covers made it impossible to conduct experiments in a controlled environment to finally verify or disprove the theory.
“We cannot haul 10,000 generations into the laboratory,” he said.
In the book, Benedict reflected on a 1996 comment of his predecessor, John Paul II, who said that Charles Darwin’s theories on evolution were sound, as long as they took into account that creation was the work of God, and that Darwin’s theory of evolution was “more than a hypothesis.”
“The pope (John Paul) had his reasons for saying this,” Benedict said. “But it is also true that the theory of evolution is not a complete, scientifically proven theory.”
Benedict added that the immense time span that evolution covers made it impossible to conduct experiments in a controlled environment to finally verify or disprove the theory.
“We cannot haul 10,000 generations into the laboratory,” he said.
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Wozza
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Case in point. How many times have we seen that quote? And how many times has it been proved wrong? And how many times I have asked you to name one person in the entire forum who denies that evolution denies God?
How many, Ed?
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edwest211
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“The Pope is wrong” is never going to fly. As I wrote, one side only “wants to hear” what it wants to hear.
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buffalo
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Catholics understand God to be almighty not omnipotent. I have told you this many times, yet you persist.
In any case, There are things God cannot do.
In this case God chose creation not evolution. If He chose evolution then it was intelligently designed.
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edwest211
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And Cardinal Christof Schoenborn made it clear that design in nature is real. This opposed to the claim that living things only look designed.
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Wozza
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You should brush up on your catechism:rossum:
Catholics understand God to be almighty not omnipotent.
[268] Of all the divine attributes, only God’s omnipotence is named in the Creed: to confess this power has great bearing on our lives. We believe that his might is universal , for God who created everything also rules everything and can do everything.
‘Can do everything’ means that ‘He can set the rules and He can set the starting conditions so that exactly the outcome He wants will happen’.
Unless it means something else to you?
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buffalo
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He cannot deceive or be deceived. He cannot create a square circle.
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Techno2000
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So, which is it… blind unguided chance or God used evolution to create ?
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Wozza
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No. But He’s omnipotent. As per the catechism. Which you said He wasn’t. Surprised you didn’t know that. And if we were talking geometry you might have a point. But we aren’t, so you don’t.Wozza:
He cannot deceive or be deceived. He cannot create a square circle.
But He can set the starting conditions so that exactly the outcome He wants will happen. As you have been told. Three times now.
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Wozza
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All educated Christians take the second option. All honest atheists wouldn’t discount it.Wozza:
So, which is it… blind unguided chance or God used evolution to create ?
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buffalo
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Creed:
"I believe in God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth…
Yes, indeed, Creation was frontloaded as in:
IDvolution - God “breathed” the super language of DNA into the “kinds” in the creative act.
This accounts for the diversity of life we see. The core makeup shared by all living things have the necessary complex information built in that facilitates rapid and responsive adaptation of features and variation while being able to preserve the “kind” that they began as. Life has been created with the creativity built in ready to respond to triggering events.
Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on Earth have the same core, it is virtually certain that living organisms have been thought of AT ONCE by the One and the same Creator endowed with the super language we know as DNA that switched on the formation of the various kinds, the cattle, the swimming creatures, the flying creatures, etc… in a pristine harmonious state and superb adaptability and responsiveness to their environment for the purpose of populating the earth that became subject to the ravages of corruption by the sin of one man (deleterious mutations).
IDvolution considers the latest science and is consistent with the continuous teaching of the Church.
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Wozza
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As I said, all educated Christians…Wozza:
Creed:
"I believe in God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth…
Yes, indeed, Creation was frontloaded as in:
IDvolution - God “breathed” the super language of DNA into the “kinds” in the creative act.
This accounts for the diversity of life we see. The core makeup shared by all living things have the necessary complex information built in that facilitates rapid and responsive adaptation of features and variation while being able to preserve the “kind” that they began as. Life has been created with the creativity built in ready to respond to triggering events.
Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on Earth have the same core, it is virtually certain that living organisms have been thought of AT ONCE by the One and the same Creator endowed with the super language we know as DNA that switched on the formation of the various kinds, the cattle, the swimming creatures, the flying creatures, etc… in a pristine harmonious state and superb adaptability and responsiveness to their environment for the purpose of populating the earth that became subject to the ravages of corruption by the sin of one man (deleterious mutations).
IDvolution considers the latest science and is consistent with the continuous teaching of the Church.
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Techno2000
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Yes…I agreeTechno2000:
All educated Christians take the second option. All honest atheists wouldn’t discount it.Wozza:
So, which is it… blind unguided chance or God used evolution to create ?
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