Questions about the concept of free will in Heaven

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AFerri48

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  1. Do you think people have free will in Heaven?
  2. If so, what’s to stop people from rebelling against God in Heaven like Adam and Eve did on earth, bringing upon sin?
  3. And if one can’t rebel against God in Heaven for some reason, why couldn’t God have done the same thing to stop people from rebelling against him on earth?
Complex questions…
 
  1. Do you think people have free will in Heaven?
Yes, in heaven we live in the complete freedom of love.
  1. If so, what’s to stop people from rebelling against God in Heaven like Adam and Eve did on earth, bringing upon sin?
Nothing.
There are no restraints in heaven to stop anyone from sinning.
  1. And if one can’t rebel against God in Heaven for some reason, why couldn’t God have done the same thing to stop people from rebelling against him on earth?
Complex questions…
One can rebel against God.
We are created with free will and have it forever. God never violates free will.
If he coerces us to obey him, then he contradicts his own revealed nature.
Love does not force.
 
  1. Do you think people have free will in Heaven?
  2. If so, what’s to stop people from rebelling against God in Heaven like Adam and Eve did on earth, bringing upon sin?
  3. And if one can’t rebel against God in Heaven for some reason, why couldn’t God have done the same thing to stop people from rebelling against him on earth?
Complex questions…
Unfortunately I can’t speak on the idea of free will in Heaven. I’m sure there is some knowledgeable Catholic philosopher out there (Ven. Abp. Fulton Sheen, maybe?) who can articulate that truth.
But I would think that beholding the Beatific Vision would supplant any possible sin that you could think of in terms of desires.
 
We will have Free Will, but our wills will either be fixed on God (Heaven), or on ourselves (Hell). Once determined, it will be impossible for that fixation to change.

We have our entire lives to decide if we want to follow God or not. Up until the last millisecond of our Earthly life, we can turn away from sin and seek God’s forgiveness. However, one that last second of our life has passed, that’s it, our wills are fixed. There are still free, and they are still entirely ours, but they will becomes the absolute expression of what we make of them on Earth. If I chose to be a Godly man during my life, then my soul will continue to be Godly in eternity; there is nothing that can change that. Likewise, if I chose to be godless, then my soul will be godless for all eternity, and nothing can change that. I know it’s probably a little hard to understand, but this is not a violation of Free Will.

Think of it this way. When we die, we experience our choice perfected. If we chose God, then our wills will be perfectly aligned with Him, and we will never be willing to sacrifice the Beatific Vision for the passing pleasures of sin. God fulfills all of our needs so completely that we will never desire anything that is not Him. If we chose ourselves over God and wind up in Hell, then that choice will likewise be “perfected,” and we will never be willing to accept God as our Lord, no matter what pain and emptiness is brought about by that decision.

(Even this isn’t really a good explanation. Unfortunately, words will always fall short when trying to describe the realities of eternal existence.)
Nothing.
There are no restraints in heaven to stop anyone from sinning.
I’m sorry, but this is wrong. While we do -technically- still have Free Will in Heaven, our Wills will be so perfectly aligned with God’s that in practice it will be impossible for us to sin. Otherwise, given the eternal nature of Heaven, we would eventually sin, and therefore lose Heaven eternally.
One can rebel against God.
We are created with free will and have it forever. God never violates free will.
If he coerces us to obey him, then he contradicts his own revealed nature.
Love does not force.
There is no coercion involved. We will see God in His fullness (at least, as much as we are capable of comprehending Him), and our Wills will be united with His. We will not sin because, upon seeing the Beatific vision, we will be completely and totally unwilling to surrender it for some lesser experience.
 
I’m sorry, but this is wrong. While we do -technically- still have Free Will in Heaven, our Wills will be so perfectly aligned with God’s that in practice it will be impossible for us to sin. Otherwise, given the eternal nature of Heaven, we would eventually sin, and therefore lose Heaven eternally.
Yes, it is correct.
There are no restraints in heaven. Restraints are for slaves. In union with God we enjoy the perfect freedom of the sons and daughters of God.
Heaven is perfect freedom. People confuse perfect freedom with restraint or ignorance. It is neither.
We don’t “technically” have free will in heaven, we really and truly and completely have free will in overflowing abundance.
There is no coercion involved. We will see God in His fullness (at least, as much as we are capable of comprehending Him), and our Wills will be united with His. We will not sin because, upon seeing the Beatific vision, we will be completely and totally unwilling to surrender it for some lesser experience.
Yes.
I’m not sure how you got from one idea to the other there…
 
  1. Do you think people have free will in Heaven?
  2. If so, what’s to stop people from rebelling against God in Heaven like Adam and Eve did on earth, bringing upon sin?
  3. And if one can’t rebel against God in Heaven for some reason, why couldn’t God have done the same thing to stop people from rebelling against him on earth?
Complex questions…
I can’t see how there could be free will in heaven. We cannot choose to sin there. The Angels had free will and a third of them chose against God. But I doubt Michael could have free will to switch sides now.
 
Yes, it is correct.
There are no restraints in heaven. Restraints are for slaves. In union with God we enjoy the perfect freedom of the sons and daughters of God.
Heaven is perfect freedom. People confuse perfect freedom with restraint or ignorance. It is neither.
We don’t “technically” have free will in heaven, we really and truly and completely have free will in overflowing abundance.
I was not disputing the exitence of Free Will in Heaven. Our Wills will be beyond free, they will be prefected. However, Once we are in Heaven, it will not be possible for us to use our free will in a way that would cause us to sin. This is because that would require a fundamental change in the state of our souls, which is impossible in a timeless reality, as GEddie pointed out.

Here is a good primer on the subject:

ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/FRWILL.htm
Yes.
I’m not sure how you got from one idea to the other there…
I got there through a bit of an extrapolation based on your apparent position that it was possible to sin in Heaven. If it were possible, but we were incapable of doing it, then that would require coercion of some kind on God’s part. My position (and the position of the Church), is that once our Wills are set in the direction of God (at our deaths), then it is impossible for them to change to the point that we would be capable of rejecting God’s will and sinning.

I realize that you’re not saying God coerces us, I just wanted to re-emphasize the point that there is no coercion involved.
 
Changing the fixation of one’s will requires time.

ICXC NIKA
Then what do you make of the parroted line that without free will we would be robots? So does one become a robot the second God says ‘‘Well done good and faithful servant’’, right after death? So essentially the millisecond when you step into eternity is when saved souls instantly morph into robots?
 
I was not disputing the exitence of Free Will in Heaven. Our Wills will be beyond free, they will be prefected. However, Once we are in Heaven, it will not be possible for us to use our free will in a way that would cause us to sin. This is because that would require a fundamental change in the state of our souls, which is impossible in a timeless reality, as GEddie pointed out.
But that is not restraint. We are not restrained in heaven.
This is an important point in a discussion about free will.

Perfect freedom is not God restraining us from sinning. That would be coercion.
Perfect freedom is just what it is.
So while there is no sin in heaven, it is not due to restraints.
 
But that is not restraint. We are not restrained in heaven.
This is an important point in a discussion about free will.

Perfect freedom is not God restraining us from sinning. That would be coercion.
Perfect freedom is just what it is.
So while there is no sin in heaven, it is not due to restraints.
Personally I want to be happy, at peace and content. If that involves restraining my will, I say, ‘‘Show me those godly shackles’’. We were assumedly made for him, so here’s hoping that we can be thoroughly satisfied with him to the extent that willing what God doesn’t will would not even enter our minds.
 
William Lane Craig has a written a response on the issue that was helpful to me personally concerning this question.
Can People in Heaven Sin?
Dear Dr. Craig,

I was in attendance at one of your lectures in Baltimore around 2 years ago at the conference Two Tasks. I appreciate the tireless work you are doing. May God continue to strengthen you, while deepening your personal relationship with Him.

There is one question that is related to the problem of evil that has not been resolved in my mind. This question has chronically baffled me, and I feel leaves me intellectually vulnerable in defending Christianity.

One way to open up the issue is with the following question:

HOW DOES GOD GUARANTEE THAT THERE WILL BE NO EVIL AMONG THE SAVED IN HEAVEN?

Some possible answers are sketched below. This is a product of my own thinking, influenced by lay research into the subject. Skeptics have posed the problem as well. . . . Please help me decide which is the best, most biblical, most philosophically coherent answer, or point out an alternative that I have not thought through.

Note: Below, I use the pronoun “we” as a short-hand for the saved/elect.

Answer 1: There is NO free will heaven. The saved are immutably good and have no choice nor temptation to sin.

Rebuttal: Can lack of free will coexist with love of the saved towards God. (If answered yes, the free will defense of evil crumbles.) How would love not be diminished or extinguished without free will?

Answer 2: There IS free will in heaven–we have the capacity to choose evil. But in our glorified body and regenerated nature, we abhor evil (no evil desire), and therefore never choose it. To back this up, consider God, who is free, despises evil, and is one of supreme love. Perhaps free will must be narrowly defined as having the ability to choose something, but not whether one would ever choose it because of one’s nature.

Rebuttal: If this is the case, why does God not create Adam such that he has no desire towards evil in the first place? Also, how is Adam’s pre-fall nature different from the one characterized in answer 2?

Answer 3: There is NO free will in heaven. However, we can not consider heaven in isolation from the earthly decision that led to eternal life. We had free will on earth, and God simply permanently cemented that freely chosen (salvifically efficacious) decision to accept Christ upon mortal death. Love still exists in heaven because God affirms the free-willed decision to follow God while on earth. (This is a tenuous underdeveloped train of thought).

Thank you very much.

Gary

We’re simply speculating when it comes to questions like this, so there may be more than one plausible answer. Insofar as sceptics are concerned, it’s up to them to prove some sort of incoherence here, which would be very difficult to do.

My own inclination is for a view along the lines of (3). God has created us at an “epistemic distance,” so to speak, which allows us the freedom to rebel against Him and separate ourselves from Him. This world is a vale of decision-making during which we decide whether we want to live with God forever or reject Him and so irrevocably separate ourselves from Him. As discussions of the so-called “Hiddenness of God” have emphasized, God could have made His existence overwhelmingly obvious, had He wanted to. During this life, we “see in a glass darkly,” as St. Paul put it; but someday we shall see “face to face” (I Cor. 13.12). Medieval theologians liked to talk of the “Beatific Vision” which the blessed in heaven will receive. There the veil will be removed, and we shall see Christ in all of His loveliness and majesty. The vision of Christ, the source of infinite goodness and love, will be so overwhelming as to remove all freedom to sin. I like to think of it like iron filings in the presence of an enormously powerful electromagnet. They would be so powerfully attracted to the magnet that there is simply no possibility of their falling away. So with the blessed in heaven.

Something like this may have already occurred with angelic beings. Originally created “at arm’s length” from God epistemically, they had a time to choose either for or against God. Those who chose for God were then sealed with the Beatific Vision, so that no further fall is possible. Fallen angels are Satan and his minions.

I find this a satisfying account of the matter. But the doctrine of middle knowledge affords a version of (2) that is viable as well. One could hold that God via His middle knowledge knew exactly which persons, if saved and glorified in heaven, would freely persevere in grace, even though they would retain the freedom to sin. It’s not that they have a different nature than others; it’s just that this is how they would freely choose. God has chosen to create a world in which all the saved are precisely such persons. Hence, everyone in heaven will freely persevere. They could fall away but they just won’t. Interestingly, creating a world like this could involve God’s having to put up with a lot of otherwise undesirable features of the world, such as vast amounts of natural and moral evil. Perhaps only in a world like that would all those who come freely to know God and His salvation be a person who would freely persevere in heaven. This view would have obvious relevance to the problem of evil.

My own preference remains for (3) simply because it seems right to think that the unalloyed vision of Christ would be something so overwhelmingly attractive that freedom to resist it would be utterly removed.
 
Sin causes tears, there will be no tears in heaven because there is no sin… We will be glorified to be like Jesus who cannot sin… It’s against the nature of God so as one with the Father in heaven we wont have the desire to sin causing pain instead we will experience no sin rather ultimate joy and love. If only people did that on earth now this place would be a much more joyous and loving place…
 
  1. Do you think people have free will in Heaven?
  2. If so, what’s to stop people from rebelling against God in Heaven like Adam and Eve did on earth, bringing upon sin?
  3. And if one can’t rebel against God in Heaven for some reason, why couldn’t God have done the same thing to stop people from rebelling against him on earth?
Complex questions…
  1. No. Impossible.
  2. See #1
  3. He chose not to.
 
While we do -technically- still have Free Will in Heaven, our Wills will be so perfectly aligned with God’s that in practice it will be impossible for us to sin.
Why does God align our will with His in heaven, but not on earth? Wouldn’t it be better for us to have our wills aligned with His on earth and yet still have free will?
 
  1. No. Impossible.
  2. See #1
  3. He chose not to.
  1. What do you make of the ‘‘robot argument’’ to justify our free-will here on earth? In your estimation, why did God choose not to? Would ‘‘Because God doesn’t want salvation to be cheap’’ be a plausible reason?
Why does God align our will with His in heaven, but not on earth? Wouldn’t it be better for us to have our wills aligned with His on earth and yet still have free will?
I think the way Adam is portrayed indicates that he was indeed very close to that. My best explanation is that God is supreme, sovereign, and a such he determines the price and the conditions to attain salvation. In other words, he wills that all men be saved, but he doesn’t will that all men be saved. IOW he desires that all men be saved, but he didn’t organize things in a way which would have made non-salvation a possibility. He knocked down Saul from a horse to convert him, so he could find ways to convert all the earth’s population, or he could have created a system where non-salvation was out of the equation.
 
Why does God align our will with His in heaven, but not on earth?
Alignment of our will is ours to do, not God’s.
Wouldn’t it be better for us to have our wills aligned with His on earth and yet still have free will?
Yes, it is necessary for us to align our wills to God’s. If not, we have chosen hell. This, however, is our responsibility, not God’s.
 
Alignment of our will is ours to do, not God’s.

Yes, it is necessary for us to align our wills to God’s. If not, we have chosen hell. This, however, is our responsibility, not God’s.
But once in eternity, what do you think happens to free will? If saved souls no longer have it, then they are ‘‘robots’’ (in reference to the classical ‘‘robot argument’’ to justify our having free will down here)? If not, how so? If so, why does being robot-like it suddenly stop to be problematic?
 
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