This thread caught my eye
I noticed somebody mentioned Tabari.
“When Eve became heavy with her first pregnancy, Satan came to her before she gave birth and said, ‘Eve, what is that in your womb?’ She said, ‘I do not know.’ He asked, ‘Where will it come out from-your nose, your eye, or your ear?’ She replied, ‘I do not know.’” Tabari I:321
I hope you realize that most Muslims recognize Tabari as not being an authentic source of Hadith. Even during his era, Muslim scholars did not pay attention to Tabari’s work, and it was largely discredited. A better source of Hadith would be the Canonical Sahih Bukhari, although from what I’ve heard, Shi’as reject that for another canonical collection of Hadith.
"Muhammad has the authority to say he is the “Seal of the Prophets” because he said God gave him the authority.
The same could be said about Bahá’u’lláh, or Joseph Smith. They all said they were prophets, too.
Except Joseph Smith or Bahaullah did not perform miracles. Nor did they create a successful religion that became a massive world faith.
Yet another bare assertion fallacy. The early Church Fathers contend the Ebionites were heretics. Given the choice between you and their contemporaries, I will stick with the early Church Fathers.
The Jewish rabbis claimed the early Christians were heretics and blaspheming against God. Given the choice between you and the early contemporaries of these people, I will stick with the Jewish rabbis
Mohammed may have been a reformer for a 7th century society of desert merchants and caravan raiders, but by modern (or even 15th century) standards, he falls a little short. Christ never participated in military raids, killed his critics (Asma bint Marwan), or preached violence towards “non-beleivers”.
Read history for a change. Muhammad did not engage in anything as vile as the Inquisition, which did take place in Europe even after the 15th century. Nor did he exterminate an entire primitve native population (like the European colonizers of the New World).
And Muhammad showed immense mercy during his reign as a king. He forgave the man who murdered his pregnant daughter. He forgave the woman he mutilated and defiled his beloved uncle’s corpse. He forgave an entire city which had conspired to kill him and tortured him and his followers.
Also, for all we know, Christ would have done the same thing as Muhammad had he gotten power - Muhammad was basically another gentle Christ when he had no power. You cannot assume that Christ would have remained the same and then bash Muhammad on that basis.
See above regarding Muhammed as a reformer. I don’t suppose Christians would approve of Jesus if he preached peace, yet bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves, like Muhammed did.
Islam was first an EMPIRE. It absorbed much of the science customs, etc, of the people it conquered, like the Romans before them. Arabic Numerals are actually Indian, geometry from the Greeks, etc.
Muhammad himself stated that ‘black and white are equal’ in his Last Sermon. This was not something ‘absorbed’ from other cultures, who were pretty racist at that time.
And please read about how slavery works in Islam before speaking about it. It is nothing like the type of slavery that was practiced in the West, especially America.
The OT allows slavery and Jesus never said anything about banning slavery, hence slavery is allowed by Christianity too - it’s just that most Christians choose not to follow it.
Do you really believe that the human mind is so perfect that it can memorize a whole book without error? Many of the original reciters of the Quran were killed in a battle and Uthman had copies of the Quran burned because of contradictions in the translations, which made many Muslims question the validity of their faith. So much for the perfection of the Quran!
Arabs were primarily an ‘oral people’. Meaning everything, from tribal histories to family histories were passed down orally. Read any book on anthropology and you will see that oral cultures are able to pass down information perfectly through memorization and recitation like this.
Millions of Muslims today have memorized the Quran. They are called Hafiz (Guardians). All of them have memorized the same scripture, front to back, word for word. This includes Muslims from different sects - Sunnis, Shi’as, Wahhabis, and others all have the SAME Quran and their Hafiz have memorized the SAME scripture.
Even the Shi’a, who generally have an unfavorable view of Othman, consider his Quranic recension to be the authoritative one. They have the same Quran as Sunnis and other Muslims.
Othman had copies of the Quran burned because they were either being mistranslated or not copied correctly as new non-Arab converts flooded Islam. Take a look at the Sana’a Manuscript of the Quran which was found in 1972. It was one of the ‘corrupted Qurans’ that escaped Othman’s burning. The manuscript, if you read it, doesn’t make sense. It’s basically gibberish. Random sentences thrown together.
Othman HAD to get rid of Qurans like these. Otherwise it might have ended up the same way as the Torah
We believe in one God consisting of three divine persons as it has been revealed to us by Jesus, the 2nd person of the Blessed Trinity.
i.e. a triune God. Muslims believe in a unified God, as do the Jews. One God consisting of One divine person/entity.
Great post!