Questions (Info, not debate please)

[fbl9]

umk, John came to help Jesus convert people.

if you are refering to St. John the baptist then you are correct in saying so.
but trishie was refer to the person whom Jesus choose as an apostle St.John,the evangilist,writer of the fourth gospel.and his account of the wedding feast at canna.in this account Mary is shown as one who points to Jesus.

 

[ChristianKnight]

if you are refering to St. John the baptist then you are correct in saying so.
but trishie was refer to the person whom Jesus choose as an apostle St.John,the evangilist,writer of the fourth gospel.and his account of the wedding feast at canna.in this account Mary is shown as one who points to Jesus.

I was told the wrong chapter buddy, but I guess reading the bible can’t hurt

 

[ChristianKnight]

Apologies, I meant
John chapter 2 verses 1-12
I hit the wrong key and didn’t notice

Problem, my John’s are combined.

 

[Trishie]

Thank you, fbl9!
His confusion was natural, I hit the wrong key, 1 instead of 2, so he wasn’t on the correct reference in the gospel of St John

 

[MarcoPolo]

When people are offensive, I simply sig it, that way people see it. I removed it due to someone else’s concern.

If I may also chime in, when you say you are a proud member of a “counterfeit religion”, I don’t think it attracts people to your faith. Your signature is an “I’m a victim” alert, just like the last one. I am sure you have much light to shine on top of a hill as we are called to do. You should share that!

 

[ChristianKnight]

If I may also chime in, when you say you are a proud member of a “counterfeit religion”, I don’t think it attracts people to your faith. Your signature is an “I’m a victim” alert, just like the last one. I am sure you have much light to shine on top of a hill as we are called to do.

I am pretty sure I’d get banned for trying to convert people here. I do not try to do the im a victim I simply show some people stand against “my” people.

I would sig Rob Genter, but I’d have to sig whole posts, and I simply don’t have the space.

 

[fbl9]

I am pretty sure I’d get banned for trying to convert people here. I do not try to do the im a victim I simply show some people stand against “my” people.

I would sig Rob Genter, but I’d have to sig whole posts, and I simply don’t have the space.

Christenknight:the question you asked in a certain thread that has dissappered,kinda is in relation to the "counterfiet"religion thing.so i will give you my answer to your querry here.
Christenknight asked “do all protestants go to hell”
no but some will be destined for hell because they once knew the fullness of the truth and have abondoned it for another christian faith.
those like yourself who are ingorant(not knowing)of the truth will be judged according to thier response to the grace that God gives them.One who knows the fullness of the truth will be judged to a higher scale then one who does not know.
using myself as an example: i know the fullness of the truth lies within the Church.if i were to decide to follow the baptist teaching i would then be judged as unworthy of heaven for i once knew but turned my back,it would not matter how good i was.
you also said to the effect that you would like to go to mass but are unable to do so.which i think is because your parent’s wouldn’t allow you to do.if they did allow you to go though would you? any person can attend mass,but they are not allowed to partake of communion.(non catholics).
Catholics talk about being in union with one another.using the standard prayer said before meals i can give you an example of this union."Bless us,O Lord, and these thy gifts which WE are about to recieve from thy bounty through Christ our Lord."even though i may be alone i still can say we because i am in union with any catholic throughout the world who may be saying that prayer at the same time as myself.the reason i am in union with these other catholics is because we all hold to the same belief.

 

[ChristianKnight]

Christenknight:the question you asked in a certain thread that has dissappered,kinda is in relation to the "counterfiet"religion thing.so i will give you my answer to your querry here.
Christenknight asked “do all protestants go to hell”
no but some will be destined for hell because they once knew the fullness of the truth and have abondoned it for another christian faith.
those like yourself who are ingorant(not knowing)of the truth will be judged according to thier response to the grace that God gives them.One who knows the fullness of the truth will be judged to a higher scale then one who does not know.
using myself as an example: i know the fullness of the truth lies within the Church.if i were to decide to follow the baptist teaching i would then be judged as unworthy of heaven for i once knew but turned my back,it would not matter how good i was.
you also said to the effect that you would like to go to mass but are unable to do so.which i think is because your parent’s wouldn’t allow you to do.if they did allow you to go though would you? any person can attend mass,but they are not allowed to partake of communion.(non catholics).
Catholics talk about being in union with one another.using the standard prayer said before meals i can give you an example of this union."Bless us,O Lord, and these thy gifts which WE are about to recieve from thy bounty through Christ our Lord."even though i may be alone i still can say we because i am in union with any catholic throughout the world who may be saying that prayer at the same time as myself.the reason i am in union with these other catholics is because we all hold to the same belief.

Well the question is directed at a guy who made a statement saying what I thought he meant by that.

Yes I would, I was gonna try to get into RCIA, but they snapped on that. I am hoping to convince them for one or the other. I would really like to take RCIA, but idk how the RCIA thing works, other then maybe like a extra-class outside of school.

 

[fbl9]

Well the question is directed at a guy who made a statement saying what I thought he meant by that.

Yes I would, I was gonna try to get into RCIA, but they snapped on that. I am hoping to convince them for one or the other. I would really like to take RCIA, but idk how the RCIA thing works, other then maybe like a extra-class outside of school.

k
thought so. RCIA can be likened to a peroid of inquiry,just checking it out,sorta thing.because one attends RCIA does not mean they become a member of the Church either.It is a good way to learn of the catholic teachings without prejudice against the catholic church.
most RCIA classes are generally held in the evening.They last aprox 2hrs or so depends on how “lively” the disscussions get.Ususally once a week running late fall till lent(40 days before easter)

 

[Robert_in_SD]

I think its rather akward to pray so much to mary, cause I would think, praying straight to Jesus would be better then anything. I usually don’t pray I just talk, I prefer to talk to him kinda like I do my best friend. Except, I tell him things I’d never tell my best friend.

But you did not really answer the question. Why do you think she should not be considered special. Is she not a very special person from salvation history?

And as for not talking to her… why do you assume that you cannot talk to both Jesus and Mary? Of course, I’m not suggesting that Mary is Divine. I’m just saying that as much as you love Jesus, that does not mean He is the only one you talk to, right? You also talk with friends and family and those who care for you? Well, if you are a christian then the christian tradition holds that we are all one body in Christ, including Mary. So, Mary, being a very important member of the Body of Christ, is also a friend that you can talk to… not instead of Jesus, but in addition to Jesus.

I would agree with protestants who say that one should not focus all attentions on Mary to the exclusion of Jesus. But, properly understood and practiced, true Marian devotion CANNOT do this because any consideration of Mary necessarily includes worship of her Son. Marian devotion without Jesus would be like having a spiritual flashlight without batteries. Jesus is the light. Mary is not the Light Source. She magnifies the Lord, like a good spiritual director or pastor, but with millions of times the “candlepower” (so to speak).

I hope this helps you to understand where I’m coming from as a Catholic who prays the rosary regularly.

Peace,
-Robert

 

[ChristianKnight]

But you did not really answer the question. Why do you think she should not be considered special. Is she not a very special person from salvation history?

And as for not talking to her… why do you assume that you cannot talk to both Jesus and Mary? Of course, I’m not suggesting that Mary is Divine. I’m just saying that as much as you love Jesus, that does not mean He is the only one you talk to, right? You also talk with friends and family and those who care for you? Well, if you are a christian then the christian tradition holds that we are all one body in Christ, including Mary. So, Mary, being a very important member of the Body of Christ, is also a friend that you can talk to… not instead of Jesus, but in addition to Jesus.

I would agree with protestants who say that one should not focus all attentions on Mary to the exclusion of Jesus. But, properly understood and practiced, true Marian devotion CANNOT do this because any consideration of Mary necessarily includes worship of her Son. Marian devotion without Jesus would be like having a spiritual flashlight without batteries. Jesus is the light. Mary is not the Light Source. She magnifies the Lord, like a good spiritual director or pastor, but with millions of times the “candlepower” (so to speak).

I hope this helps you to understand where I’m coming from as a Catholic who prays the rosary regularly.

Peace,
-Robert

She shouldn’t be considered special cause when compared to Jesus she isn’t?

I also prayed 1/4 of the rosary (part of the thing, but I got tired of speaking it, so I laid it down, and decided to do the rest the next day, but I forgot what happened, I think I didn’t sleep the night before, and came home feel asleep.

 

[MarcoPolo]

She shouldn’t be considered special cause when compared to Jesus she isn’t?

Maybe I’m a little behind in this conversation but Mary is considered special because the Church teaches she is the Mother of God, was Immaculately conceived as the antetype of Eve, was assumed into heaven by the power of the Spirit, and was a Virgin before, during, and after the birth of Christ. There isn’t Jesus vs. Mary any more than there is Jesus vs. Matthew or Paul. The latter show us the former. Mary, of course magnifies Jesus for us (Lk 1:46). There is a communion of saints among which Mary is most glorious. To recognize her gifts is to see the glory of Christ at work.

 

[MarcoPolo]

She shouldn’t be considered special cause when compared to Jesus she isn’t?

Maybe I’m a little behind in this conversation but Mary is considered special because the Church teaches she is the Mother of God, was Immaculately conceived as the antetype of Eve, was assumed into heaven by the power of the Spirit, and was a Virgin before, during, and after the birth of Christ. There isn’t Jesus vs. Mary any more than there is Jesus vs. Matthew or Paul. The latter show us the former. Mary, of course magnifies Jesus for us (Lk 1:46). There is a communion of saints among which Mary is most glorious. To recognize her gifts is to see the glory of Christ at work.

 

[ChristianKnight]

Maybe I’m a little behind in this conversation but Mary is considered special because the Church teaches she is the Mother of God, was Immaculately conceived as the antetype of Eve, was assumed into heaven by the power of the Spirit, and was a Virgin before, during, and after the birth of Christ. There isn’t Jesus vs. Mary any more than there is Jesus vs. Matthew or Paul. The latter show us the former. Mary, of course magnifies Jesus for us (Lk 1:46). There is a communion of saints among which Mary is most glorious. To recognize her gifts is to see the glory of Christ at work.

I rarely see on EWTN them praying just to Jesus, and I watch it a pretty good amount. I am just saying the RCC seems to glorify Mary more then any other.

 

[MarcoPolo]

I rarely see on EWTN them praying just to Jesus, and I watch it a pretty good amount. I am just saying the RCC seems to glorify Mary more then any other.

I can speak to the percentages of what you’ve observed, but if you reach a point where you recognize the scope of Jesus within Mary and the saints and the Church, there is no longer any Mary vs. Jesus, or they pray to Mary “more” than Jesus. It is a little like saying, “they go to the Bible more than Jesus.” Have you ever delved into a good book explaining Mary.

 

[Rolltide]

I rarely see on EWTN them praying just to Jesus, and I watch it a pretty good amount. I am just saying the RCC seems to glorify Mary more then any other.

Well, why don’t we take a look at the prayers that are currently shown on EWTN:

The Our Father (The Lord’s Prayer)
I don’t think any Christian has a problem with this one, since Jesus himself instructed us to pray in this way.

The Hail Mary
Hail Mary, full of grace,
the Lord is with thee (found in Luke 1:28, straight from Scripture)
Blessed art thou amongst women
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus (found in Luke 1:42, straight from Scripture)
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners
now, and at the hour of our death.
Amen
(In the last section, we are asking Mary to pray FOR us. We are asking for her prayers, we are not worshiping her.)

I see a lot of recitation of Scripture in this prayer, but nothing seems to rise to the level of worship. It does, however, request that Mary pray for us, just as we would ask someone in our congregation to pray for us. And yes, it does glorify Mary, but in an appropriate manner.
**
The Divine Praises**
Blessed be God.
Blessed be His Holy Name.
Blessed be Jesus Christ, true God and true Man.
Blessed be the Name of Jesus.
Blessed be His Most Sacred Heart.
Blessed be His Most Precious Blood.
Blessed be Jesus in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar.

(So far, no problem at all, unless you deny the Real Presence. It’s all about Jesus.)

Blessed be the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete.
Blessed be the great Mother of God, Mary most Holy.
Blessed be her Holy and Immaculate Conception.
Blessed be her Glorious Assumption.
Blessed be the Name of Mary, Virgin and Mother.
Blessed be St. Joseph, her most chaste spouse.
Blessed be God in His Angels and in His Saints.
Amen.

(Here, we’re saying that Mary, Joseph, the Angels, and the Saints are blessed. ALL of them are glorified, not just Mary, you’ll notice. This isn’t worship either… it’s just acknowledging their faithfulness to God. It does acknowledge the Immaculate Conception, perpetual virginity of Mary, and Mary’s Assumption, which Protestants would object to. However, none of that is worship.)
**
The Litany of St. Joseph**
miraclerosarymission.org/litjos.htm
This prayer gives honor to St. Joseph and asks him to pray for us.

The Litany of the Most Holy Name of Jesus
web2.airmail.net/~carlsch/MaterDei/Prayers/L-HolyNameJ.htm
This prayer is ENTIRELY about Jesus and the Trinity

The Litany of the Most Sacred Heart of Jesus
miraclerosarymission.org/litshj.htm
This prayers is ALSO ENTIRELY about Jesus and the Trinity

The Benediction and Devotions presented by EWTN focus on the Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament (praying before Jesus in the form of the Host (the consecrated bread), scripture, and saying some of the above devotions.
**
The Chaplet of St. Michael **
ewtn.com/Devotionals/prayers/chaplet-of-st-michael.htm
This prayer honors the Archangel Michael and ALL angels, asking for their protection and to pray for us to God.
**
The Stations of the Cross**
creighton.edu/CollaborativeMinistry/stations.html
This devotion calls us to focus and meditate on the Passion and Death of Jesus. It is ENTIRELY focuses upon Jesus, although a couple of the events depicted come from tradition, not Scripture. That said, the particular elements are minor things and in no way affect salvation.

The Chaplet of Divine Mercy
ewtn.com/Devotionals/mercy/dmmap.htm
Although this prayer is somewhat like the Rosary, it is actually invoking the sacrifice of Jesus in atonement for the sins of the world. It is focused upon Jesus, although it does involve the Hail Mary prayer.

The Litany of Loreto
intermirifica.org/Mary/marylitany.htm
Ok, this would be the big one that people would have problems with. It invokes all of the names for the Virgin Mary ever used by the Catholic Church for her, honors her, and asks for her to pray for us. When seen through the lens of Catholic devotion, there is nothing wrong with it. From outside, it seems awfully focused on Mary. LOOK CLOSELY AT THE PRAYER, however! After every single title of Mary, it says “PRAY FOR US”. It’s not worshiping her, it’s begging her to pray for us. If you notice the beginning and ending, it’s actually focused on Jesus.

So, that’s EVERYTHING that’s currently shown on EWTN. It looks pretty balanced to me, with MANY prayers exclusively focusing upon Jesus and the Trinity, and a few to cover not just Mary, but all the saints and angels too. Pretty much everyone is covered in some way, in a very nice balance.

Included in the following link is EWTN’s December schedule, so you can see where I’m getting my information.
ewtn.com/tv/NAgrid1208.asp

 

[jkarp]

I think its rather akward to pray so much to mary, cause I would think, praying straight to Jesus would be better then anything. I usually don’t pray I just talk, I prefer to talk to him kinda like I do my best friend. Except, I tell him things I’d never tell my best friend.

Have you ever had a need (be it spiritual or physical) and asked a friend to pray for you? Or have you ever prayed for the healing or well-being of another person? If there is no need for such things, why do it then? If then, you do believe such things to be efficacious, than who better to ask to pray for you than the Mother of our Lord? After all, it was she that changed the plan and conviced the Lord to help out that newly wed couple who ran out of wine.

 

[Rolltide]

I think its rather akward to pray so much to mary, cause I would think, praying straight to Jesus would be better then anything. I usually don’t pray I just talk, I prefer to talk to him kinda like I do my best friend. Except, I tell him things I’d never tell my best friend.

First, let me state that there’s absolutely NOTHING wrong with the type of prayer you’re engaged in. It’s highly encouraged by Catholics, in fact. You should also note that there really isn’t any requirement that your prayer involves saints, with the exception of such portions of the Mass that require it. If you’re Catholic and you NEVER say a rosary in you’re life, it’s not a problem. However, there are MANY types of prayer. There is formal prayer to Jesus. There is informal prayer, like you engage in. There’s community prayer at church. There’s prayers where you ask members of your church to pray for you. AND… there’s prayers asking the angels, saints, and Mary to pray for you. All are valid. They are ways to enrich your prayer life by giving multiple options. All are important, and can bring out different aspects of your spirituality.

I also agree with the above poster. If prayer to Mary, the saints, and angels is wrong or akward, then why go to church and pray together at all? Invoking a saints is a powerful way of acknowledging to the world our Christian belief in the afterlife. God has saved us from sin, and we DO continue to exist after death! (If people ceased to exist, there’d be no point praying to them, would there?)

 

[ChristianKnight]

Have you ever had a need (be it spiritual or physical) and asked a friend to pray for you? Or have you ever prayed for the healing or well-being of another person? If there is no need for such things, why do it then? If then, you do believe such things to be efficacious, than who better to ask to pray for you than the Mother of our Lord? After all, it was she that changed the plan and conviced the Lord to help out that newly wed couple who ran out of wine.

I have never asked a friend to pray for me. I have prayed for others before. I think Jesus would be a better person to ask for prayer from then just Mary? Maybe if we said somethign like “Everyone in heaven” pray for us?

 

[jkarp]

I have never asked a friend to pray for me. I have prayed for others before.

Why did you pray for someone else if the only effective prayer is the one prayed to Jesus by one’s own self?

I think Jesus would be a better person to ask for prayer from then just Mary?

I don’t ask for Jesus to pray for me, I hope in Him for salvation. Mary has the power to change The Plan. At the wedding at Cana, Jesus said that according to The Plan, it wasn’t His time. What did Mary say? CHANGE THE PLAN. And He did. Asking Mary to intercede on our behalf is a very effective prayer. When your mother asks you to do something, aren’t you inclined to do it?

Maybe if we said somethign like “Everyone in heaven” pray for us?

This is precisely how my family prays - we ask for special intercession from Mary, then we ask for intercession from each of our patrons, then we ask all holy men and women of God for intercession. We conclude with the Glory Be offering glory and praise to God.

If you believe that Mary is not someone special among all humans, you should read the Gospel of Luke more carefully. The angel Gabriel greets Mary: “Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you.” She is the favored one, she is the vessel by which the Lord chose to come into the world, she is special.