Questions to Muslims not born in the U.S.

[elwill]

No, they condemn themselves for what they believe about the Quran. I pray for muslims caught in a cult of violence and death.

i don’t understand what you means

You have no asurance of salvation unless:
9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur’an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

are you mean that the only way to get salvation is to engage in wars ?
is that what you understood ?

Are you a lazy believer elwill?

4.95 Not equal are those believers who sit and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit. Unto all Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit by a special reward,-

when the war be imposed in my country it will obligatory on me to fight with my goods and my person to defend it , and the reward for those who will fight will be more than those who set , i have no problem with this verse

Did I say anything about abrogation? No I said that allah sent better verses.

002.106
YUSUFALI: None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?
PICKTHAL: Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things?
SHAKIR: Whatever communications We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things?

well , i believe that all verses of quran are perfect , not the early nor lately verses have contradictions

 

[schaick]

i don’t understand what you means

The Muslim has no proff that the Quran is from GOD of the Holy Bible. You have no proff that it was infact Gabriel that was talking to Mohammd. You have no proof that Jesus did not die on the Cross to pay the debt of sin for all mankind.

are you mean that the only way to get salvation is to engage in wars ?
is that what you understood ?

The only assurance that you will reach paradise is if you fight and kill for allah.

when the war be imposed in my country it will obligatory on me to fight with my goods and my person to defend it , and the reward for those who will fight will be more than those who set , i have no problem with this verse

Yes because Islam is very strong in the revenge department.

well , i believe that all verses of quran are perfect , not the early nor lately verses have contradictions

Yes I understand that Muslims believe all the verses are from allah and that he sent verses later that were better then first verses.

 

[sedonaman]

…
There are good Muslims around the world, I’m sure, but there is an overwhelming number who just will not play by the rules of civility and reciprocity of goodwill. …

Perhaps “Islam and the West…Can They Co-Exist” [Part 2,

], a lecture on Islamic theology by Andrew Bieszad, will answer your questions. He states that Islamic teaching holds that non-Muslims do not have full human dignity because they have rejected Islam. Only Muslims are entitled to full human dignity. If true, this explains a lot about Islam.

 

[seraphime2008]

thank you , this is the answer i was waiting
i’m sorry , i really don’t know what should i do if some muslims in someplace in the world killed innocents in the name of islam , all what i can do is condemn their acts to be islamic

Aha…condemn silently…I know you’re not capable of doing more…:shrug:and the rest of the so called peaceful Muslim, you got nothing else to do…

i’m mad because you dosn’t answers my questions
you said to me in post # 128 that Quriash began to take mohammed as an enemy beause he condemned thier worship for idols
i didn’t deny that and i confessed that his mission was to guide them away from idolatory , and i said that any prophet will act the same
hence you said in post 130
“the prophets of the Jew dealt with many aspect of how people should treat the others, and not necessarily condemning the pagan, but if they have to deal with the pagan, it’s to condemn more of the behavior of the pagan of sacrificing their own child, aspect of their ritual of seeing the sexuality as an offer as well, and so on.”
i appreciated this answer and asked you very simple question
how did mohammed (pbuh) condemned their relegion which supposed to be different than that which you stated above
how did he condemned their beliefs which made them take him as an enemy ?
what made his behaviour differ than that of other prophets
( don’t miss the fact the we are talking now about biginning of the massage and the beginning of hatred )

How?Answer please, I have answer myself that it was clear he was different, he mocked their religion without the understanding that the previous prophets of the Jews (which he only knew a little) have never had the intention to mock people that doesn’t have the root of tradition and teaching of monotheists, they only deal with people of Israel who had a long tradition, who had experienced God firsthandly, who had already make a covenant with God long before, who had been helped many times in their history by God…and you fail to see that Muhammad were dealing with people of his fellow Arab who had nothing in common with the people of the book, they didn’t have the idea at all of what Muhammad was saying, they were alien with the concept! So mocking was not the thing that will make Muhammad to be accepted and rightful! And that’s the thing that you fail to see!!! And again again you accused me of not being able to see the chain of argument!!! You’re the one that cannot see or don’t want to see that!!!
How could Muhammad convince this Arab without him having the sign that he indeed was a prophet of God, he couldn’t convinced them because he had nothing to make them believe!!!
You are not being in the chain of argument yourself!

i

think that i didn’t deny what you informed me from sirah , i confessed that mohammed (pbuh) condemned the worship of idols of his people , i had further questions and i repeated it above

Again I see that you’re the one who didn’t tell us enough evidence that Muhammad was justified to be seen as a prophet!

i don’t believe either that muslims believed in mohammed (pbuh) by force

Just keep dreaming! It’s told in many verses in Koran and Hadits that he fought for himself to be accepted as prophet and his religion to be taken even if it have to be accepted forcefully! You just deny it and play taqqiya!
:doh2:Oh I forget to see that off course the people who confessed that they accepted Islam by force would have been beheaded so they wouldn’t be any “treason” in Islam and religion should be Islam for all!! Hei…there’s no force at all!!

how you saying that i don’t want to open my eyes ? i allready asked you to give me statistics that arab countries are the most intolerant countries in the world , or do you want from me in the fact to trust in your words blindly

Playing innocent won’t make you right! Statistic my dear!!! All those reports should have been made into statistic so it’s more accepted! If it’s only reports it’s not truth!
But here to make you please:
infoplease.com/world/statistics/freedom.html

If you notice the list, you’ll find that most Arab countries have been listed on that list as the “not free” countries. You’ll see the parameter of freedom there that includes the the civil liberties that include the freedom of religion.

On special report of your country, Egypt is highlighted on the reports made by the US department of state, if you can handle this (knowing you’ve always said that these reports are false……huh!!):

state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2009/127346.htm

yes that’s right , it all happens after the conquest of mekkah , i think 2 years before his death
didn’t i said to you that you missed the chain of the argument , we are talking about why Quriash turned against him in the beginnig , right ?

I already said it’s because Muhammad had mocked the indigenous religion of the Arab because he thinks he could just proclaim that he is prophet, and they all should submit to him…

it’s all in the post 128 , you can check your arguments again

Whatever…:banghead:

 

[InSearchofGrace]

Perhaps “Islam and the West…Can They Co-Exist” [Part 2,

], a lecture on Islamic theology by Andrew Bieszad, will answer your questions. He states that Islamic teaching holds that non-Muslims do not have full human dignity because they have rejected Islam. Only Muslims are entitled to full human dignity. If true, this explains a lot about Islam.

Thanks for providing the link to Andrew Bieszad’s “Islam and the West … Can they Co-Exist” presentation dated 1.28.2010. I listened to all three parts. If you have not discovered yet, there is another presentation titled Islam and the West with Andrew Bieszad in NYC dated 2.11.2010, youtube.com/watch?v=QjIPE6OkVL8, which seems to have better audio quality.

In checking Mr. Bieszad’s background, I was pleased to read that he is an Islamic scholar, who lectures around the country on Islam. He has impressive academic credentials: M.A. in Islamic Studies and B.A. degree with Honors in Religious Studies, with a concentration in Islam and Christianity and minors in Journalism and Chinese. It is noteworthy that he speaks Arabic (Classical and Standard) and Egyptian dialects, in addition to being fluent in Russian and proficient in Mandarin Chinese. He is versant on the Qu’ran and hadidths.

As distilled by Mr. Bieszad, it is Islam’s unchangeable core theology, with human dignity conditional on being an obedient Muslim, which serves as the root of incompatibility between Muslims and Western culture, Muslims and non-Muslims. Like oil and water, they do not mix.

Following Mr. Bieszad’s analysis, denying human dignity of non-Muslims is intrinsic to Islam. This fits as an answer to the questions I posed on this thread, why Muslims do not view that they treat native and visiting Christians in their lands unjustly, even if that is so by any objective standard in civil society. But Muslim immigrants do get to enjoy equal liberties in the land of their host countries in the West and demand that Western society be changed for them according to their sharia laws!

However, with Mr. Bieszad being a non-Muslim, he will likely be discounted by Muslims as not reliable or a good source on Islam teachings. What would they make of noted Muslim Islamic scholars who arrived at the same or similar conclusion, like Dr. Mustafa (now Mark Gabriel), Egyptian Islamic scholar and writer, formerly a professor at Al-Azhar University, and Dr. Muhammed Rahoumy (now Dr. Samuel Paul), former Dean in Al Azhar Islamic University in Cairo Egypt, and a host of others, I wonder? We know just how they will answer this!

Because Islam teaches that only Muslims have dignity and non-Muslims do not have dignity, even good Muslims are pulled in two opposite directions, fragmenting their souls and psyches, and incapacitating them to keep the bad ones (who act on Islam’s teachings) in check. The discerning peaceful ones realize this and inevitably break away from Islam, if they are to afford dignity to non-Muslims, and as a matter of self preservation.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

More devastating news, as if the blood and tears shed for our Church in Muslim land are not enough:

On June 3, 2010, Mgr Luigi Padovese, bishop of Iskenderun, in Anatolia, was stabbed to death by his Muslim driver. He was Apostolic Vicar to Anatolia in 2004 and current president of the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of Turkey. He was closely involved in ecumenical work and in the dialogue with Islam as well working to revive Turkey’s Christian communities.

speroforum.com/site/article.asp?id=34142&t=TURKEY+%96+VATICAN+++Mgr+Luigi+Padovese+assassinated+in+southern+Turkey

Four years ago, Bishop Padovese held Mass for Father Andrea Santoro who was shot dead on February 5, 2006 from behind while kneeling in prayer in Santa Maria Church in Trabazon, Turkey, by a perpetrator as he shouted “Allahu Akbar”.

catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=42255

Add this to the knifing of Father Pierre Brunissen in July 2006 in the Turkish Black Sea port of Samsun, by a 47 yr. old man who did not like that the priest “was converting people to his faith”.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5139408.stm

Utterly numbing … the slaughter and violence.

And Turkey is supposed to be one of the more moderate Islamic countries.

 

[elwill]

More devastating news, as if the blood and tears shed for our Church in Muslim land are not enough:

On June 3, 2010, Mgr Luigi Padovese, bishop of Iskenderun, in Anatolia, was stabbed to death by his Muslim driver. He was Apostolic Vicar to Anatolia in 2004 and current president of the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of Turkey. He was closely involved in ecumenical work and in the dialogue with Islam as well working to revive Turkey’s Christian communities.

speroforum.com/site/article.asp?id=34142&t=TURKEY+%96+VATICAN+++Mgr+Luigi+Padovese+assassinated+in+southern+Turkey

Four years ago, Bishop Padovese held Mass for Father Andrea Santoro who was shot dead on February 5, 2006 from behind while kneeling in prayer in Santa Maria Church in Trabazon, Turkey, by a perpetrator as he shouted “Allahu Akbar”.

catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=42255

Add this to the knifing of Father Pierre Brunissen in July 2006 in the Turkish Black Sea port of Samsun, by a 47 yr. old man who did not like that the priest “was converting people to his faith”.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5139408.stm

Utterly numbing … the slaughter and violence.

And Turkey is supposed to be one of the more moderate Islamic countries.

thank you searchofgrace
just wanna to refer to very wisdom words be said in one of these articles
because such words tell me that rational christians are exist in this world

Questioned about a possible link between the killing and Islamic hostility, Cardinal Saraiva Martins said that he wanted to be “prudent” about jumping to conclusions. In any case, he said, it would be wrong to speak of a “religious conflict,” because “every faith is against war and against the misuse of the image of God.”