Quran 5:116

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[5:116] GOD will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary, did you say to the people, `Make me and my mother idols beside GOD?’ " He will say, "Be You glorified. I could not utter what was not right. Had I said it, You already would have known it. You know my thoughts, and I do not know Your thoughts. You know all the secrets.

Here is my issue with the verse
  1. It doesn’t mention the Holy Spirit. It puts Jesus and Mary into the same level but ignores the Holy Spirit.
    I would think since Christians actually worship the Holy Spirit instead of just praying to it, as we do to Mary, the verse would mention it.
    Question, is there any verse in the Quran that criticizes the Christian worship of the Holy Spirit?
  2. Ask any Christian who prays to her, and they will say that they do not worship her, it is not their intention. Now, in Islam it is considered by some to be a sin to pray to someone else or to make a statue, but the Quran is supposed to be from an all-knowing God, and it is supposed to be for all people. Since God knows our intentions, he would have known that Christians do not intend to worship Mary and thus in the Quranic verse, he should have addressed the issue of our ‘misunderstanding’ instead of saying that we worship her when no Christian considers themselves doing so.
 
katy_kt said:
[5:116] GOD will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary, did you say to the people, `Make me and my mother idols beside GOD?’ " He will say, "Be You glorified. I could not utter what was not right. Had I said it, You already would have known it. You know my thoughts, and I do not know Your thoughts. You know all the secrets.

Here is my issue with the verse
  1. It doesn’t mention the Holy Spirit. It puts Jesus and Mary into the same level but ignores the Holy Spirit.
    I would think since Christians actually worship the Holy Spirit instead of just praying to it, as we do to Mary, the verse would mention it.
    Question, is there any verse in the Quran that criticizes the Christian worship of the Holy Spirit?
  2. Ask any Christian who prays to her, and they will say that they do not worship her, it is not their intention. Now, in Islam it is considered by some to be a sin to pray to someone else or to make a statue, but the Quran is supposed to be from an all-knowing God, and it is supposed to be for all people. Since God knows our intentions, he would have known that Christians do not intend to worship Mary and thus in the Quranic verse, he should have addressed the issue of our ‘misunderstanding’ instead of saying that we worship her when no Christian considers themselves doing so.
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Why didnt that come to to mind. Thanks for this post.
 
dzheremi said:
True enough, and I have no problem with taking it seriously. That’s the point of this thread. Since words are important (especially those that are purported to come from Jesus), I too am trying to understand this passage. Allah asks Jesus if He had instructed people to take as Gods both He and His Mother. Why? Doesn’t Allah know what His servant Jesus told people to do and not to do?
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Of course Allah knows. Allah is not asking in order to discover the answer, but to show the answer the all the people who thought otherwise. That it is coming from Jesus’s own lips is very much the point. That he could never say what he had no right to say. And Jesus says that Allah would know if Jesus had said this thing.
Doesn’t Jesus, after all, know what He’s doing?
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Of course. Jesus isn’t the one who made the mistake, though. But since Jesus has been accused of it, the passage clears him of it. For don’t Christians say that Jesus declared himself to be God?
Even if we don’t say this verse refers to the Trinity (that’s fine by me), there are still lots of problems with it. That’s why I said that even if the Qur’an gets the Trinity right (which I don’t know if it does or not), there’s still a lot to wonder about in it.
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What else, for instance?
 
katy_kt said:
Here is my issue with the verse
  1. It doesn’t mention the Holy Spirit. It puts Jesus and Mary into the same level but ignores the Holy Spirit.
    I would think since Christians actually worship the Holy Spirit instead of just praying to it, as we do to Mary, the verse would mention it.
    Question, is there any verse in the Quran that criticizes the Christian worship of the Holy Spirit?
Click to expand...
Interesting. How do you worship the Holy Spirit?
  1. Ask any Christian who prays to her, and they will say that they do not worship her, it is not their intention. Now, in Islam it is considered by some to be a sin to pray to someone else or to make a statue, but the Quran is supposed to be from an all-knowing God, and it is supposed to be for all people. Since God knows our intentions, he would have known that Christians do not intend to worship Mary and thus in the Quranic verse, he should have addressed the issue of our ‘misunderstanding’ instead of saying that we worship her when no Christian considers themselves doing so.
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Of course Christians say they don’t worship her. But what they actually do is what Muslims consider to be worship. In fact, many Christians agree that what Catholics do to Mary is worship as well. Interesting, that is.
 
Sister Amy;4627065]Of course Allah knows. Allah is not asking in order to discover the answer, **but to show the answer the all the people who thought otherwise./**QUOTE]
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But that’s the point! WHO thinks otherwise? I don’t know of any major religion that worships Mary as God or as a god? And Allah would have known this. Why would he be asking about something that doesn’t exist!
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Sister_Amy said:
Interesting. How do you worship the Holy Spirit?

Of course Christians say they don’t worship her. But what they actually do is what Muslims consider to be worship. In fact, many Christians agree that what Catholics do to Mary is worship as well. Interesting, that is.
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EXACTLY!!! Humans who misunderstand!!! But, Allah, who is all-knowing would know the truth!!!
 
Sister_Amy said:
Interesting. How do you worship the Holy Spirit?
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Simple by considering it to be God. The Holy Spirit is God; just as we consider Jesus to be God and to us Mary is not a god.
Sister_Amy said:
Of course Christians say they don’t worship her. But what they actually do is what Muslims consider to be worship. In fact, many Christians agree that what Catholics do to Mary is worship as well. Interesting, that is.
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Please re-read what I said. I have addressed all the points that you mentioned and you haven’t addressed the points I have mentioned.
 
katy_kt said:
Simple by considering it to be God. The Holy Spirit is God; just as we consider Jesus to be God and not Mary.
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I’m sorry but I don’t understand. Do you pray to the Holy Spirit? Fast for the Holy Spirit? Praise the Holy Spirit? In what way do you worship the Holy Spirit?
Please re-read what I said. I have addressed all the points that you mentioned.
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Not really. You addressed the points which you understand, not those which I mentioned.

If a person is praying to Mary, thinking Mary can hear him, and that Mary can actually respond…

before I finish, can you tell me if Catholics do that or not?
 
Sister_Amy said:
Of course. Jesus isn’t the one who made the mistake, though. But since Jesus has been accused of it, the passage clears him of it. For don’t Christians say that Jesus declared himself to be God?
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and how does Mary fit ? do we say she declared herself God as well? or is “half” of this verse about Jesus being God and the other “half” for something else, leaving the Holy Spirit who IS God to us aside? chaos.
 
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Jay53:
EXACTLY!!! Humans who misunderstand!!! But, Allah, who is all-knowing would know the truth!!!

Indeed. And I’ll be believing what He says about the matter.
 
inJESUS said:
and how does Mary fit ? do we say she declared herself God as well? or is “half” of this verse about Jesus being God and the other “half” for something else, leaving the Holy Spirit who IS God to us aside? chaos.
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It might help to read the verse before engaging in the discussion at hand. 🤷
 
Sister_Amy said:
If a person is praying to Mary, thinking Mary can hear him, and that Mary can actually respond…
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Sorry for interrupting, but this was why I asked on another thread if Muslims believe in Our Lady of Fatima or the apparitions of Blessed Mother in Egypt. Obviously we believe that she is alive in heaven and can intercede to God for us. I never did get a clear answer as to whether Muslims believe these apparitions occurred. I don’t know if they think the rest of the world made this up or what??

As an aside, I have had a prayer DIRECTLY answered by Jesus through St. Therese. Not a “coincidence” of something that could be interpreted different ways, but a DIRECT answer. I have absolutely no doubt that Mary and the saints intercede for us in heaven.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Indeed. And I’ll be believing what He says about the matter.
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But what did Allah say about the matter? God said “I am the Lord, thy God, thou shalt have no other gods beside me.” Why then is Allah asking about worshipping Mary as a god when no one does that.

Also, then you should believe Jesus’ baptism: “This is my Beloved Son in whom I am well pleased.” (Matthew 3)
 
Sister_Amy said:
It might help to read the verse before engaging in the discussion at hand. 🤷
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i did, and the verse is putting Jesus and Mary on the same level. So when you say “don’t you say Jesus declared Himself God”, the answer is yes, so why put Mary on the same level unless she is believed to be God as well? and why would an all-knowing Allah keep refuting Mary’s divinity in many verses, and not one correct mention of the Holy Spirit instead of Mary?
 
swariffin said:
The sentence is the imagination of Muhammad. No such word ever come out of Jesus. In other word, Muhammad made a groundless accusation.
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Muhhamad learned most of what he knew about Christianity from the Ebionites a heretic Christian sect.
 
Sister_Amy said:
Jay53;4627086:
My mother has this expression she uses when we can’t find something that’s right in front of our noses…

She says, if it was a snake it would’ve bit ya.
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Are you actually accusing me of worshipping Mary? If so, you are WAY off base and not as intelligent as I thought you were. 🤷
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Catholic_JIMMY said:
Muhhamad learned most of what he knew about Christianity from the Ebionites a heretic Christian sect.
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thanks to Waraqa who, by divine knowledge, knew that Muhammad encountered “Jibreel” and was to become a prophet.
 
Jay53 said:
Sorry for interrupting, but this was why I asked on another thread if Muslims believe in Our Lady of Fatima or the apparitions of Blessed Mother in Egypt. Obviously we believe that she is alive in heaven and can intercede to God for us. I never did get a clear answer as to whether Muslims believe these apparitions occurred. I don’t know if they think the rest of the world made this up or what??
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Muslims don’t believe in those apparitions, no.
As an aside, I have had a prayer DIRECTLY answered by Jesus through St. Therese. Not a “coincidence” of something that could be interpreted different ways, but a DIRECT answer. I have absolutely no doubt that Mary and the saints intercede for us in heaven.
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I have had prayers answered too. Answered by directly asking God. 🤷
 
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