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Sam_777
Guest
It seems so, sometimes I really wonder if YHWH = Allah, or that Muhammed corrupted the words of YHWH.So here we see that Allah does not know about his own creation
Thank you brother
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planten
Guest
** Sam, you asked if that was the Ahmadi interpretation. I do not know.Is that Ahmadiyya interpretation.
Almost one year here and still you don’t know if I’m he or she!!!, its only two clicks away (click on my name then click on the home page).
But I know you are like most Muslims, you don’t want to research or search for the truth, only relying on your ancestors words.
The book I recommended for reading was written by a Frenchman (probably a christian). The book is titled “Bible Science and Quran.” The christians dare not read that book.
There is another one about the travel or travails of Jesus after he recovered from the incident of the cross, and moved out of the area. I read that book long ago. It is fully documented. It describes the route jesus used to travel to Kashmere. It is an interesting book. All people who love Jesus must read that. Book is titled “Jesus in Heavens on Earth”. by Dr.Nazir Ahmed. That book may be an Ahmedi account of the last ( 85) years of Jesus life on earth. Try it**.
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IrishJoe
Guest
Ah you must be Mohammed then and know EXACTLY what he meant by it. Just like all these uber trads who tell us what the pope ‘really means’
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Muslim_Woman
Guest
In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful
Salaam/peace
Towards Understanding the Quran
Allah has never put two hearts within one person’s body;5 nor has He made your wives, whom you compare to your mothers’ backs (to divorce them),6 your true mothers; nor has He made those whom you adopt as sons your own sons.7
These are only words that you utter with your mouths. But Allah proclaims the Truth and directs you to the Right Path.
chapter 33 , verse 4
*5 That is, "One and the same person cannot be a believer and a hypocrite, truthful and false, wicked and righteous, at one and the same time. He does not have two hearts in this chest that one should have sincerity in it and the other fearlessness of God.
Therefore, a man can have only one kind of character. at a time: either he will be a believer or a hypocrite, a disbeliever or a Muslim. Now if you call a believer a hypocrite, or a hypocrite a believer, it will not change the reality. The true character of the person will inevitably remain the same."
islamicstudies.info/tafheem.php?sura=33
Salaam/peace
You browse anti-Islamic sites day & night ??
Towards Understanding the Quran
Allah has never put two hearts within one person’s body;5 nor has He made your wives, whom you compare to your mothers’ backs (to divorce them),6 your true mothers; nor has He made those whom you adopt as sons your own sons.7
These are only words that you utter with your mouths. But Allah proclaims the Truth and directs you to the Right Path.
chapter 33 , verse 4
*5 That is, "One and the same person cannot be a believer and a hypocrite, truthful and false, wicked and righteous, at one and the same time. He does not have two hearts in this chest that one should have sincerity in it and the other fearlessness of God.
Therefore, a man can have only one kind of character. at a time: either he will be a believer or a hypocrite, a disbeliever or a Muslim. Now if you call a believer a hypocrite, or a hypocrite a believer, it will not change the reality. The true character of the person will inevitably remain the same."
islamicstudies.info/tafheem.php?sura=33
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morning_star777
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chrisse
Guest
This is what I’m talking about. This book is being used in propaganda; excerpts from it are printed in a booklet they handed out a few weeks ago at a “pro-Hamas” rally. A bit about Bucaille from wiki :
I’ve seen a bit of what’s in there from the booklet they give out, and it’s nonsense, and leaves muslims open to ridicule using the arguments in there. It’s not a secularist conspiracy, morning_star, just a good old get rich quick scheme.
Planten, Bucaille and Moore were charlatans who got paid big bucks for finding science in the qur’an. There is no scientific credibility to their work.
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Lothair
Guest
The book ‘Bible, Science and Quran’ was written in 1975 and Maurice Bucaille has been refuted often over the last 30 years. Bucaille wrote the book while he was the physician for, guess who, the king of Saudi Arabia!
For a detailed refutation of the claims of science in the Quran, follow that link.
So, Jesus recovered from the ‘incident on the cross’? Accoring to the Quran, he wasn’t even crucified at all, so how is it that he had to recover from an ‘incident’ that didn’t even happen!? Muslims are so much fun.
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morning_star777
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Actually Chrisse,Muslims desperately want to devour the whole world specially the Christian world.My country Bangladesh is considered as a moderate Muslim country,but here also Christians do not preach their religion because Muslim leaders will not allow them and since Muslims follow their leaders blindly so they also do not allow.Actually Muslim leaders are emperor without crown in Muslim countries,even moderate Muslim countries.So missionaries do not have any Chance to preach religion among muslims.But Muslims always preach Islam in west by taking the advantage of the democracy of Europe and America.BTW,Islamic propaganda is too much horrible here in Bangladesh,that lots of Muslim think that Christian Missionaries are Very Much active in Bangladesh and they are trying to destroy Islamic faith!!What a terrible lie it is.As an ex Muslim,in my life time I never met any missionary who preached Christianity to me,but here another User who is my native,always want to say that Christian missionaries are very much active in Bangladesh.But it is not correct information because in reality there is no missionary here who is preaching Christianity among Muslims!And in Bangladesh even many person believe that Even red cross is also a missionary group that is trying to destroy the Islamic faith for the sake of treatment.So now imagine the malignity of Muslims towards non Muslims.And for those islamic propaganda,people took those types of books as holy books.And this types of books and specially “why I have converted to sialm”,this type of books are hot cake here and perhaps in other Muslim countries too.Those books claim that Westerns,specially thousands of western women convert to islam because they realize that only Islam can assure the safety of women.And surprisingly Muslims do not read but swallow this types of false books.What a pity,God save Muslims from their fatal mistake.
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chrisse
Guest
Yes, morning_star, muslims are desperate for what they classify as Christians to justify their beliefs. Why? Truth can stand on its own.
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Sister_Amy
Guest
Meh. You guys will believe anything, won’t you?
This verse is not some “scientific miracle,” I’ve never heard anyone promote it as such.
But the meaning of it (or of this phrase, not even the whole ayah) actually appears at least twice in the New Testament, when Jesus says that a person cannot serve two masters–i.e., cannot serve both God, and money. He cannot love both.
This is pretty obvious if you read the previous ayah.
The verse is miraculous just like every verse in the Qur’an is miraculous. But not for some astonishing scientific unknown truth it reveals. There is additionally a grammatical analysis which refutes the sort of nonsense the OP alludes to initially, but I doubt most readers care or could bother to follow along.
This verse is not some “scientific miracle,” I’ve never heard anyone promote it as such.
But the meaning of it (or of this phrase, not even the whole ayah) actually appears at least twice in the New Testament, when Jesus says that a person cannot serve two masters–i.e., cannot serve both God, and money. He cannot love both.
This is pretty obvious if you read the previous ayah.
The verse is miraculous just like every verse in the Qur’an is miraculous. But not for some astonishing scientific unknown truth it reveals. There is additionally a grammatical analysis which refutes the sort of nonsense the OP alludes to initially, but I doubt most readers care or could bother to follow along.
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chrisse
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Pot, kettle, black.
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rtconstant
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At first blush this seems to be meant in a metaphorical sense.
Now if someone is claiming that the verse is scientific in nature then obviously they’re in trouble.
This goes back to what really causes problems between Muslims and other religions. For a religion with so many fundamentalists Islam is difficult to nail down. Some believe that Islam demands Sharia, but other Muslims say these are extremists and not real Muslims. Of course those extremists don’t think the moderates are real Muslims either. Some may believe that everything in the Qu’ran is scientific, others see it as a spiritual book. They both think the other is totally wrong. I’ve seen many Sunni and Shi’ah deny each other the title Muslim. No one seems to know what Islam actually is. What Islam is seems to reside exclusively within the heart of the individual believer. It is what each individual Muslim wants or needs it to be.
The Shi’ah were smart enough to realize that some form of ongoing legacy was necessary for interpretation of the faith, but it still hasn’t given them a stable concept on what Islam is.
Now if someone is claiming that the verse is scientific in nature then obviously they’re in trouble.
This goes back to what really causes problems between Muslims and other religions. For a religion with so many fundamentalists Islam is difficult to nail down. Some believe that Islam demands Sharia, but other Muslims say these are extremists and not real Muslims. Of course those extremists don’t think the moderates are real Muslims either. Some may believe that everything in the Qu’ran is scientific, others see it as a spiritual book. They both think the other is totally wrong. I’ve seen many Sunni and Shi’ah deny each other the title Muslim. No one seems to know what Islam actually is. What Islam is seems to reside exclusively within the heart of the individual believer. It is what each individual Muslim wants or needs it to be.
The Shi’ah were smart enough to realize that some form of ongoing legacy was necessary for interpretation of the faith, but it still hasn’t given them a stable concept on what Islam is.
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pjk123
Guest
Good Post morning_star777.Here in India ,Kashmir is a part of Our Country with Muslim Majority.Muslims always shows themselves as victimized.like pakistani radical organizations like Lashkar-e-Thayebba or Taleban are claiming Indian army is “mistreating” Muslims-infact indian army-india government is providing their best in education,funds for development of infrastructure as in roads etc to bring back tourism in that state.Heck ,This kashmir is the same state where thousands of native Hindu Pundits were Slaughtered under the influence of Islam.There is no one - even India-a majority Hindu Nation to Protect the poor Pundits.
So much for peaceful Religion.This Muslim Mass Hysteria of Accusing India as a anti-islam country but in factual - it is world’s Highest Muslim Population(illegal immigrants from bangladesh,pakistan ,afghan included) more than that of Indonesia.Muslims in India enjoys every sort of reservations for jobs -unbalanced where real minorities like christians don’t got any reservations! etc.even their Ustads(religious teachers) gets Rs4000 pension for teaching terror(Koran interpretations) in Madrassas soon.
Sad.India as a Democratic Country is suffering to keep peace by satisfying Muslims.
look at this site;especially video regarding condition of Hindu pundits in their own country:
waronindia.com/home/
See the Jehad dateline on India over 1000 years time:
factsoverfiction.com/jihad_Hindu.html
The Gulf Connection of Indians is a major concern as the wahaabi teachings are gaining grounds even in south india -my own state -kerala by the radical Islamists called NDF/PDP who want to bring back saud-wahaabi islam which means direct meaning of verses in koran.Reverence of Saints(Durgah/Jaaram) etc is a part of milder Islam found in India.these kinds of practices are going to be abolished by the swashbucklers funded by PetroDollers.
I have seen One class where the Moulavi is proud and boasting “islam is the fastest growing religion”-How?By Kidnapping Indian origin Hindu/Sikh/Christian Girls and convert them to Islam as the pakistani’s does in England?huh?and by asking men to convert to islam for a marriage?ridiculous.
theasiannews.co.uk/news/s/525/525657_hindu_girls_risking_muslim_honey_trap_claim_forum.html
hindujagruti.org/news/1700.html
danielpipes.org/comments/95111
So much for peaceful Religion.This Muslim Mass Hysteria of Accusing India as a anti-islam country but in factual - it is world’s Highest Muslim Population(illegal immigrants from bangladesh,pakistan ,afghan included) more than that of Indonesia.Muslims in India enjoys every sort of reservations for jobs -unbalanced where real minorities like christians don’t got any reservations! etc.even their Ustads(religious teachers) gets Rs4000 pension for teaching terror(Koran interpretations) in Madrassas soon. Sad.India as a Democratic Country is suffering to keep peace by satisfying Muslims.look at this site;especially video regarding condition of Hindu pundits in their own country:
waronindia.com/home/
See the Jehad dateline on India over 1000 years time:
factsoverfiction.com/jihad_Hindu.html
The Gulf Connection of Indians is a major concern as the wahaabi teachings are gaining grounds even in south india -my own state -kerala by the radical Islamists called NDF/PDP who want to bring back saud-wahaabi islam which means direct meaning of verses in koran.Reverence of Saints(Durgah/Jaaram) etc is a part of milder Islam found in India.these kinds of practices are going to be abolished by the swashbucklers funded by PetroDollers.
I have seen One class where the Moulavi is proud and boasting “islam is the fastest growing religion”-How?By Kidnapping Indian origin Hindu/Sikh/Christian Girls and convert them to Islam as the pakistani’s does in England?huh?and by asking men to convert to islam for a marriage?ridiculous.
theasiannews.co.uk/news/s/525/525657_hindu_girls_risking_muslim_honey_trap_claim_forum.html
hindujagruti.org/news/1700.html
danielpipes.org/comments/95111
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Moayidd
Guest
Qalb is ‘taken’ to mean heart. The Arabic word for heart is Fu’aad not Qalb. Qalb means the inside of something. It means the thoughts, beleifs, doubts and so on of a Person. It comes from the root QLB which means to revolve or to change or to switch. In Arabic, pre-islamicthere is a saying 'Ma summiyah Al Qalb illa li’annahu MutaQaLib. It is not called the heart for any other reason than that it changes/switches/revolves. This is about the mind and inner thoughs/beleifs etc not the Organ - the Heart. If thats the Arabic word you are looking for then your word is Fu’aad not Qalb.
As for one year passing before an answer to this question then simply I don’t know of many muslims who visit this Forum. I fell upon it by chance just now.
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wwolverine
Guest
As Usual, muslims always like to corrupt the Holy Bible and than say that the Holy Bible is corrupted. Satan plays in mysterious ways.
What you said above regarding Jesus is your own words isnt it Planten? Cause as the Holy Bible says in the Gospel Mathew 27:11,
11Meanwhile Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor asked him, “Are you the king of the Jews?”
“Yes, it is as you say,” Jesus replied.
&, luke 23:3,
3So Pilate asked Jesus, “Are you the king of the Jews?”
“Yes, it is as you say,” Jesus replied.
do convey completely different meanings. So i Wonder why you quoted out of context words and than say Holy Bible is corrupted.
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Moayidd
Guest
How can a Muslim ‘corrupt’ the Bible ? The problem, if you want to be realistic, is that its difficult to find a Bible that all Christians agree on. You have written so many different versions of them. Its a weakness in your faith so don’t blame Muslims for it.
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ZAKI
Guest
i thought this was really obvious…but some christians are ready to believe/post/use anything to attempt to undermine islam
wasalam
wasalam
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Sam_777
Guest
:tsktsk:
Fu’aad = Qalb, that’s what is mentioned in the following official Arabic dictionaries:
لسان العرب:
والقَلْبُ مُضْغةٌ من الفُؤَاد مُعَلَّقةٌ بالنِّياطِ. ابن سيده: القَلْبُ الفُؤَاد، مُذَكَّر، صَرَّح بذلك اللحياني، والجمع: أَقْلُبٌ وقُلوبٌ، الأُولى عن اللحياني.
الصّحّاح في اللغة:
القَلْب: الفؤاد، وقد يعبَّر به عن القلب
والقَلْبُ مُضْغةٌ من الفُؤَاد مُعَلَّقةٌ بالنِّياطِ. ابن سيده: القَلْبُ الفُؤَاد، مُذَكَّر، صَرَّح بذلك اللحياني، والجمع: أَقْلُبٌ وقُلوبٌ، الأُولى عن اللحياني.
الصّحّاح في اللغة:
القَلْب: الفؤاد، وقد يعبَّر به عن القلب
Source.
Its strange how Muslims will try to find any workaround or excuse when they find something illogical regarding Islam…
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Lothair
Guest
.
There are a few words that refer to the ‘heart’, but wheter any of them direct our attention the cardio vascular system is another question. It does have an answer. I’ll examine the two words that have been used here, which are ‘QLB’ and ‘FAD’. Both can be found in enough instances to exegete properly. In 6:110, ‘fuad’ is found to mean the anatomical heart. Here, Allah is confounding both heart and eyes as torture [blindness and coronary disease]. The word appears again in 6:113, but is the ‘train if thought’ that leads to joy in disbelief. So, FAD has both an anatomical meaning and a poetic one just as it does in english.
‘QLB’ is also common, and in 26:227 the word is assigned a meaning of repentence and turning, as is often the case in other verses. However, in 33:4, the word QLB specifically refers to the human body as the place of the heart. It is not here meant to be poetic, but a plain fact that no man has two cardio vascular systems. Muhamamd is using the illustration as a plain fact to make more clear the allegory he is then going to state. So, any example of a human being with two hearts would be an obvious refutation of Muhammad’s scientfic error.
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Moayidd
Guest
Must you always take a stab at Muslims. We cannot lie concerning Islam or the Qur’aan. This is something you need tO remember. Some Muslims are over enthusiastic and jump the gun like in this case (Qalb).
Now let me take a part of what you yourself typed from Al Sahhaah
الصّحّاح في اللغة:
القَلْب: الفؤاد، وقد يعبَّر به عن القلب
[/RIGHT]
What does that say? AlQalb: Al Fou’aad and it MAY be used to refer to as Al Qalb (Heart-Organ). Not that it IS the Heart but it MAY be used to refer to as the heart (Organ). In other words it isnt the Organ - the Heart but can be used to refer to it. Isn’t this what I said in my post ? it can be taken to mean the Heart.
Its primary meaning is not the Organ-Heart however. Since you appear to be an Arabic speaker you should know exactly what heart means - the inner part or the inside of something.
When considering meanings and Alfaaz of the Qur’aan, the Qur;aan itself is the reference not linguists. You need to check and see the Qur’aan uses that word.
Which is what the very next sentence in Lisaan Al 3arab does. The vvery next sentence o the part you used that it is: Here it is:
**
وقوله تعالى: نَزَلَ به الرُّوحُ الأَمِـينُ على قَلْبك؛ قال الزجاج: معناه نَزَلَ به جبريلُ، عليه السلام، عليك، فَوَعاه قَلْبُك، وثَبَتَ فلا تَنْساه أَبداً.
**
And HIS saying (Allahs): Rooh Al Ameen (Spirit of Truth) descended with it (the Qur’aan) on your QALB. Now is the organ-heart a container for Revelation or any knowledge? Its just an Organ. Al Zajjaaj then comments saying, this means Gabriel descended with it/revealed it to you so your Qalb contains it hence you will never forget it.
Does this sound like the heart as in Organ ?
Some more examples from the Qur’aan.
002.204 وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَنْ يُعْجِبُكَ قَوْلُهُ فِي الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا وَيُشْهِدُ اللَّهَ عَلَى مَا فِي قَلْبِهِ وَهُوَ أَلَدُّ الْخِصَامِ
002.204 Wamina a(l)nn[a]si man yuAAjibuka qawluhu fee al[h]ay[a]ti a(l)dduny[a] wayushhidu All[a]ha AAal[a] m[a] fee qalbihi wahuwa aladdu alkhi[sa]m(i)
And of people whose words you like in this world/life and Allah is a witness to what is in his** heart.**
Does this sound like the Organ ? Or is this his ‘inside’ ?
Incase all the above didn’t convince you although it should here is one that is indesputable. Allah uses both words in one verse.
006.110 وَنُقَلِّبُ أَفْئِدَتَهُمْ وَأَبْصَارَهُمْ كَمَا لَمْ يُؤْمِنُوا بِهِ أَوَّلَ مَرَّةٍ وَنَذَرُهُمْ فِي طُغْيَانِهِمْ يَعْمَهُونَ
006.110 We (too) shall turn to (confusion) their hearts and their eyes, even as they refused to believe in this in the first instance: We shall leave them in their trespasses, to wander in distraction.
006.110 Wanuqallibu af-idatahum waab[sa]rahum kam[a] lam yu/minoo bihi awwala marratin wana[th]aruhum fee [t]ughy[a]nihim yaAAmahoon(a)
There you go, bot words used one after the other.
Wanuqallibu af-idatahum
Wanuqallibu from QALB - naqlibu means we revolve, we overturn/turn
af-idatahum af-idatahum - Their HEARTS
Clearly Allah can’t be using the word heart twice one after the other as in ‘thier hearts their hearts’ but look further how it is used, whats the next word ?
waab[sa]rahum and their site/vision.
We (QLB) revolve/change their (Fu’aad) hearts and (BaSar) vision.
It combined Heart (Fu’aad) and Vision one after the other as proof that these are sensory functions. Fu’aad - the real meaning of Heart is a sensory/physical thing hence it is lumped with BasAr (vision) which is another sensory function. Qalb is NEVER used that way in the Qur’aan. It is always used to define ‘the inside’ or in its varients to define revolving, over turning or switching. Nothing else.
Here is another example which is refering to sensory perception. Which ‘heart’ does it use ? Qalb or Fu’aad ?
017.036 وَلا تَقْفُ مَا لَيْسَ لَكَ بِهِ عِلْمٌ إِنَّ** السَّمْعَ وَالْبَصَرَ وَالْفُؤَادَ** كُلُّ أُولَئِكَ كَانَ عَنْهُ مَسْئُولا
017.036 And pursue not that of which thou hast no knowledge; for every act of hearing, or of seeing or of (feeling in) the heart will be enquired into (on the Day of Reckoning).
017.036 Wal[a] taqfu m[a] laysa laka bihi AAilmun inna** a(l)ssamAAa wa(a)lba
When a verse is referring to sensory organs it used the Fu’aad not the Qalb. This is why it is used together with ‘hearing’ and ‘seeing’ in this verse because all sensory or organs. By now you should know why it didn’t use Qalb in this case.
You are a bit out of luck because thats what I’m doing - translate the Qur’aan so if you want to take this further I am more than willing to show how ever single occurrence of the root QLB in any verse in the Qur’aan is used and how every occurrence of Fu’aad (The real meaning of the organ heart) is used. Trust me there won’t be one occurrence in your favor.
This is the Qur’aan don’t forget.
- Status