Qu'ran vs. The Bible

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lukewarm

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I see a lot of propaganda on this board about wife beating, Jihad etc… in the Qu’ran.

As someone who is basically without a faith right now I can’t understand how someone in a glass palace can throw bolders like that. I’ve read the Bible and the Qu’ran cover to cover and I was brought to near tears reading the horrors and immoralty within the Bible, it destroyed my faith frankly. I’m almost willing to bet 99% of the people who can remain Christians have never read the entire Old Testament. Meanwhile while reading the Qu’ran I was at best left with a feeling of “well that’s over the top or obvious bias”.

Now to the point let’s have a challenge of sorts the worst of the worst. Post your worst Qu’ran Surahs’ and see if anyone can counter with a more offensive Bible verse.

My bet if I were a betting man is that the Bible has much worse verse and it’s not even close.
 
lukewarm said:
I see a lot of propaganda on this board about wife beating, Jihad etc… in the Qu’ran.

As someone who is basically without a faith right now I can’t understand how someone in a glass palace can throw bolders like that. I’ve read the Bible and the Qu’ran cover to cover and I was brought to near tears reading the horrors and immoralty within the Bible, it destroyed my faith frankly. I’m almost willing to bet 99% of the people who can remain Christians have never read the entire Old Testament. Meanwhile while reading the Qu’ran I was at best left with a feeling of “well that’s over the top or obvious bias”.

Now to the point let’s have a challenge of sorts the worst of the worst. Post your worst Qu’ran Surahs’ and see if anyone can counter with a more offensive Bible verse.

My bet if I were a betting man is that the Bible has much worse verse and it’s not even close.
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Dear lukewarm,

I may be the 1% Christian you mentioned (not for being proud of myself), After reading the whole bible, that is why I found so much satisfaction in the NT. That is why the NT is named as New Testament. The OT represented the struggle of people living in sins but having a faith that God would send a savior, while the NT provides the answers, pointed to a person name Jesus, who is the savior. For me, it is not the **writing per se **in the bible which can save you. It is the word of Gods echoing from those writings and how we can understand and follow such words of God which can saves.
 
Hi lukewarm,

Firstly, I have to say that I don’t believe you when you say that you have read the Qur’an from “cover to cover”. Because if you did, there would be no way that you would compare a book with no context and no chronology with another book that is a story of prophecy. But, I’m willing to let that slide by to accept your challenge.

Anyway, as for your challenge in looking for the worst verse; Does it have to be violent? If not, then I would say the worst verse in the Qur’an is 4:157.
 
Charlie_Zeaiter said:
Hi lukewarm,

**Firstly, I have to say that I don’t believe you when you say that you have read the Qur’an from “cover to cover”. **Because if you did, there would be no way that you would compare a book with no context and no chronology with another book that is a story of prophecy. But, I’m willing to let that slide by to accept your challenge.

Anyway, as for your challenge in looking for the worst verse; Does it have to be violent? If not, then I would say the worst verse in the Qur’an is 4:157.
Click to expand...
For shts and giggles let’s assume I’m not a crazy liar who BS’s people on message boards for no good reason and take the discussion from there… I’ve given you no good reason to believe me some crazed liar, I feel it’s only decent to give people the benefit of the doubt and not call them liars…
 
If you continued to highlight the next sentence, you would see indeed that I do have a reason to doubt your claim.

C’mon, lukewarm; You can do better than to judge me as not being decent. This whole thread is indecent. It is riddled with trouble making right from post # 1.
 
Sometimes, the Bible is not God’s words.

Rather, It is God’s record of MAN’S words and actions.
 
lukewarm said:
I see a lot of propaganda on this board about wife beating, Jihad etc… in the Qu’ran.

As someone who is basically without a faith right now I can’t understand how someone in a glass palace can throw bolders like that. I’ve read the Bible and the Qu’ran cover to cover and I was brought to near tears reading the horrors and immoralty within the Bible, it destroyed my faith frankly. I’m almost willing to bet 99% of the people who can remain Christians have never read the entire Old Testament. Meanwhile while reading the Qu’ran I was at best left with a feeling of “well that’s over the top or obvious bias”.

Now to the point let’s have a challenge of sorts the worst of the worst. Post your worst Qu’ran Surahs’ and see if anyone can counter with a more offensive Bible verse.

My bet if I were a betting man is that the Bible has much worse verse and it’s not even close.
Click to expand...
Which bits of the OT do you deem that we Christians must still follow?
 
lukewarm said:
For shts and giggles let’s assume I’m not a crazy liar who BS’s people on message boards for no good reason and take the discussion from there… I’ve given you no good reason to believe me some crazed liar, I feel it’s only decent to give people the benefit of the doubt and not call them liars…
Click to expand...
I always took the term ‘cover to cover’ as someone who picks up a book and reads it from the opening cover to the end cover.

That in itself would cause me to dobut your claim about the Koran, as it’s not meant to be read that way. It’s not in chronological order. It’s not a linear story.

However, your claim about Christians doing something then you suddenly want to only force Christians to look at the OT - which is only understood by Christians in light of the NT (and Tradition) lends to the idea that you’ve not understood the Bible.

And, the fact you only want to compare the Koran to the Bible as if both encapsulate the whole range of either faith would mean that not only do you not understand Christianity, you don’t understand Islam - which you’re trying to defend.

Further, you’re tyring a *tu quoque *argument which also lends proof that you don’t understand a logical argument; as you attempt to argue by way of a fallacy.

I believe I’ve covered all the faults you managed to cram into one small OP. (I don’t count you ‘elaborating’ on the metaphor as a mistake)
 
There’s no point to this thread other to cause conflict and to bring in the posters.
 
lukewarm said:
I see a lot of propaganda on this board about wife beating, Jihad etc… in the Qu’ran.
Click to expand...
Let’s start with this, then. What is the ‘propaganda’ on these issues you’re talking about?

For e.g. (and you may not wish to deal with this), why is it propaganda on the issue of beating a woman?
 
Montalban said:
I always took the term ‘cover to cover’ as someone who picks up a book and reads it from the opening cover to the end cover.

That in itself would cause me to dobut your claim about the Koran, as it’s not meant to be read that way. It’s not in chronological order. It’s not a linear story.

However, your claim about Christians doing something then you suddenly want to only force Christians to look at the OT - which is only understood by Christians in light of the NT (and Tradition) lends to the idea that you’ve not understood the Bible.

And, the fact you only want to compare the Koran to the Bible as if both encapsulate the whole range of either faith would mean that not only do you not understand Christianity, you don’t understand Islam - which you’re trying to defend.

Further, you’re tyring a *tu quoque *argument which also lends proof that you don’t understand a logical argument; as you attempt to argue by way of a fallacy.

I believe I’ve covered all the faults you managed to cram into one small OP. (I don’t count you ‘elaborating’ on the metaphor as a mistake)
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LOL what you wrote made no sense, I proposed a very simple proposition and you come back with nonsense about logical fallacies. I can’t stand it when dimwits use words like to quoque and “red herring” because they are too scared to engage. If you don’t want to play find another thread.

So again very simple, give me the worst Surah in the Qu’ran and I’ll find ten ones in the Bible that put it to shame.

This thread is merely to show the few anti-Islamic propagandaists on this board (two of the worst are in this thread), that if they can argue by cherry picking Surah’s it’s only fair if people are able to do the same about the Bible. You can’t use two sets of standards, it’s not right.
 
Charlie_Zeaiter said:
If you continued to highlight the next sentence, you would see indeed that I do have a reason to doubt your claim.

C’mon, lukewarm; You can do better than to judge me as not being decent. This whole thread is indecent. It is riddled with trouble making right from post # 1.
Click to expand...
I judge off of what I have available, and to call me a liar for no good reason IMO makes you an indecent person. Sorry if that bothers you, but it definitely doesn’t show a good side of you.
 
lukewarm said:
LOL what you wrote made no sense, I proposed a very simple proposition and you come back with nonsense about logical fallacies. I can’t stand it when dimwits use words like to quoque and “red herring” because they are too scared to engage. If you don’t want to play find another thread.

So again very simple, give me the worst Surah in the Qu’ran and I’ll find ten ones in the Bible that put it to shame.

This thread is merely to show the few anti-Islamic propagandaists on this board (two of the worst are in this thread), that if they can argue by cherry picking Surah’s it’s only fair if people are able to do the same about the Bible. You can’t use two sets of standards, it’s not right.
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I think a previous post already addressed you. The New Tesament is the continuation and FULLFILLMENT of the Old Testament. As Christians we follow the law laid out in the New Testament. Please point out the verses that incite violence in the NT. You should perhaps address you question towards Jews since they follow the law in the OT. You should also not that there are not many Jews who take the violent passages to heart and try to committ these acts in modern society. Whereas with Islam it is taken to heart and is why there have been 10,000 terror attacks in the name of Islam since 9/11. The posts you have seen that criticize islam are not only based off of the quran but muslims interepertations of the quran, the hadith, the sira and the fruits of this “religion”.
 
The Bible has a total of 31,173 verses

christiananswers.net/bible/about.html

The Quran has a total of 6,234 verses

submission.org/suras/app29.html

So the rounded ratio beween the Bible and the Quran in terms of size is approximately 5:1. In plain terms the bible is 5 times bigger than the Quran.

The rest of the comparison will be based on the Skeptics analysis of both books:

Skeptic’s Analysis of the Bible:

skepticsannotatedbible.com/

Skeptic’s Analysis of the Quran:

skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm

We will be comparing both the Positive and Negative aspects between these two books.
Bible vs Quran (Remember, the Basis ratio is 5:1)

**The Good Stuff: **

267 vs 68. The Quran’s goodness rating is about 21% better than the bible.

Contradictions:

384 vs 23. The Bible’s rate is about 3 times more than the Quran.

**Injustice: **

1106 vs 681. The Quran’s rate is about 3 times more than the bible.

**Intolerance: **

548 vs 487. The Quran’s rate is about 4.5 times more than the bible.

**Cruelty and Violence: **

858 vs 494. The Quran’s rate is about 2.9 times more than the bible.

Note: This is just a quantity comparison. Quantity alone does not make one ultimately better or worst than the other. The quality/worth/intensity of the overall positive and negative instances must also be considered. I suggest you see some of the instances yourselves.

Conclusion: In terms of frequency- though the Quran is slightly better than the bible in positive aspects, it is much worst than the bible in negative aspects. Neither book is perfect but the Quran is worst.
 
Charlie_Zeaiter said:
Hi lukewarm,

Firstly, I have to say that I don’t believe you when you say that you have read the Quran from “cover to cover”. Because if you did, there would be no way that you would compare a book with no context and no chronology with another book that is a story of prophecy. But, I’m willing to let that slide by to accept your challenge.

Anyway, as for your challenge in looking for the worst verse; Does it have to be violent? If not, then I would say the worst verse in the Quran is 4:157.
Click to expand...
If you know the Bible 4:157 Is also repeated in John. They are referring to the Zionist or Jews. Jesus said they are nothing but liars and thief’s. They have no right to claim to be a descendants of Abraham. The zionist do not have any claim to Palestine according to the Qu’ran and the Bible. The Muslims and Catholics have lived in peace for years before the zionist showed up. Israel is a false country and still supports slavery. They know nothing about the concept of human rights. The zionist are just a false teaching and have taken land which is not theirs to take. They have persecuted both the Catholics and the Muslims. They promote prostitution and strip search both Catholic and Muslim girls. We need to stand united against the zionist evil.
 
AgnosTheist said:
The Bible has a total of 31,173 verses

christiananswers.net/bible/about.html

The Quran has a total of 6,234 verses

submission.org/suras/app29.html

So the rounded ratio beween the Bible and the Quran in terms of size is approximately 5:1. In plain terms the bible is 5 times bigger than the Quran.

The rest of the comparison will be based on the Skeptics analysis of both books:

Skeptic’s Analysis of the Bible:

skepticsannotatedbible.com/

Skeptic’s Analysis of the Quran:

skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm

We will be comparing both the Positive and Negative aspects between these two books.
Bible vs Quran (Remember, the Basis ratio is 5:1)

**The Good Stuff: **

267 vs 68. The Quran’s goodness rating is about 21% better than the bible.

Contradictions:

384 vs 23. The Bible’s rate is about 3 times more than the Quran.

**Injustice: **

1106 vs 681. The Quran’s rate is about 3 times more than the bible.

**Intolerance: **

548 vs 487. The Quran’s rate is about 4.5 times more than the bible.

**Cruelty and Violence: **

858 vs 494. The Quran’s rate is about 2.9 times more than the bible.

Note: This is just a quantity comparison. Quantity alone does not make one ultimately better or worst than the other. The quality/worth/intensity of the overall positive and negative instances must also be considered. I suggest you see some of the instances yourselves.

Conclusion: In terms of frequency- though the Quran is slightly better than the bible in positive aspects, it is much worst than the bible in negative aspects. Neither book is perfect but the Quran is worst.
Click to expand...
I might question the contraditions you found in the bible. Also you should do this analysis of the NT only since that is the fullfillment of the OT and what Christian teaching is primarily based on.
 
AgnosTheist said:
But this is the Bible vs the Koran, not the NT vs the Koran.
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The OT is the basis of the Jewish faith and the NT is the basis of the Christian Faith. By your logic you might as well include the OT and NT in with the koran since muslims feel that the koran is the fullfillment of the OT/NT.
 
thedavidwilson said:
The OT is the basis of the Jewish faith and the NT is the basis of the Christian Faith. By your logic you might as well include the OT and NT in with the koran since muslims feel that the koran is the fullfillment of the OT/NT.
Click to expand...
While I understand what AgnosTheist is saying, this is a good point and if someone like lukewarm wants to do a comparison they would do well to remember that. Muslims claim they worship the God of Abraham which is the God of the OT/NT so claiming the OT is morally horrible in comparison to the Quran and issuing challenges based on that is well, frankly sophomoric. Thanks for the comparison AgnosTheist. I like things like that.
 
George_Waters said:
While I understand what AgnosTheist is saying, this is a good point and if someone like lukewarm wants to do a comparison they would do well to remember that. Muslims claim they worship the God of Abraham which is the God of the OT/NT so claiming the OT is morally horrible in comparison to the Quran and issuing challenges based on that is well, frankly sophomoric. Thanks for the comparison AgnosTheist. I like things like that.
Click to expand...
What it comes down to is the interpretation of the text. What fruit does it produce. Traditionally muslims have aborgated earlier peaceful verses in to quran in favor of later more violent verses. They took a chornological analysis on what is important in the quran. If they took a contextual analysis (i.e. the violent verses were only appropriate for the times they took place in and the peaceful verses are what muslims should live by) I think there would have been far less than 10,000 terror attack since 9/11/01. Unfortunately the orthodox view of islam is to use the violent verses (from the Medina period) as the example for a good muslim for all times. They terrorism will only stop when this emphasis on the peaceful verses is accepted and there is concensus through out the islamic world. Don’t hold your breath…
 
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