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CatholicGuyNY
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Irrelevant. You said that Joseph Smith ordained a black man, twopekingguys said that this man then had his priesthood revoked by Brigham Young. Being sinless/infallible/inerrant has nothing to do with that.
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Ahimsa
Guest
Hebrew scriptures state that the extermination of Canaanite women and children was a command from God. Are these scriptures correct or incorrect? (Given the choice between being killed and not given the priesthood, I know which choice I would take.
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Ahimsa
Guest
It has everything to do with it. Why would you accept what Young did, over what Smith did?
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Ahimsa
Guest
Contradictory doctrines are found in the Bible, as well. Does that mean that the Bible is a false (not-from-God) document?
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CatholicGuyNY
Guest
This is a deflection. You asked “Did these Prophets cite explicit Mormon scripture that said “Africans are inferior and cannot be priests” or did these Prophets read into Mormon scripture ideas that may have been prevalent in America (e.g., among Southern Baptists?) at the time?”Hebrew scriptures state that the extermination of Canaanite women and children was a command from God. Are these scriptures correct or incorrect? (Given the choice between being killed and not given the priesthood, I know which choice I would take.
The answer is that the First Presidency stated that it was a commandment from the Lord. Were they right or wrong?
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twopekinguys
Guest
Maybe you should do some of your own research on mormon “prophets”.
If you do, you will find that Smith was the first “prophet”, then Brigham Young as his successor. That would put him on the same level as Joseph Smith.
I suggest you do some of your own research on the topic. We have.
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CatholicGuyNY
Guest
Do you think that Smith had more authority than Young? They were both Presidents of the LDS church. Smith ordained the man, Young also had the authority to revoke the priesthood from him as well. Being sinless, inerrant, or infallible has nothing at all to do with it.
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PaulDupre
Guest
Again, the war against the Canaanites was due to the idolatrous and otherwise wicked life-style of the Canaanites. It had nothing to do with race, The blacks of 19th-century America were mostly devout Christians (more righteous than the Mormons for sure). Why were they singled out for punishment or bigotry?Hebrew scriptures state that the extermination of Canaanite women and children was a command from God. Are these scriptures correct or incorrect? (Given the choice between being killed and not given the priesthood, I know which choice I would take.
The Mormon bigots can only cite the Old Testment to justify their racial hatred. The New Testament teaches that there are no divisions in Christ.
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Ahimsa
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That’s what Frederick Douglass said about Christianity in America: it wasn’t Christianity at all, but a false religion across the board, because no major (or “national”) American Christian denomination came out explicitly against slavery.
But I wouldn’t go that far. Smith ordained at least one African-American priest, so every other “Prophet” after Smith wouldn’t be expected to have the same level of insight that Smith had. In addition, one has to realize, people like Jefferson and other founding Fathers had similar attitudes towards non-whites, but we don’t demonize people like Jefferson (or, at least, there is no need to demonize such people).
I don’t think Mormons see the Prophets as “infallible”, so I don’t see the import of quoting Prophets all the time, without also looking at the scriptural basis for the Prophets’ claims.
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Marc_Anthony
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When the Bible is interpreted correctly nothing in it is contradictory.
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PaulDupre
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The only people who think that the bible has contradictions are those that have not seriously studied it.
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Marc_Anthony
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But the Book of Mormon was given to you by a Prophet, who claimed to be inspired by God while writing it (Smith of course). But if we don’t know when Mormon Prophets are actually receiving teachings from God or just THINKING that they are, then how can we be sure that the entirety of the BoM is inerrant?
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twopekinguys
Guest
That is the problem. If you ask 10 different mormons when their “prophet” is infallible, you will get 20 different answers.
Early on in this thread, you will see where ParkerD talked about their “prophet” offering their opinion in relation to blacks and the priesthood. However, their scripture shows that it is doctrinal.
Trying to figure out when a mormon “prophet” is speaking for God is like nailing jello to the wall.
Here is an example of when the vast majority of reasonable, thinking individuals would think that Brigham Young was speaking what God told him. (bolding mine)
If one drop of negro blood meant death on the spot, what do you think it meant for someone with 100% negro blood?
Can you say “Doctrinal Racism”?
"Brigham Young is generally credited with having been responsible for revoking the priesthood and temple blessings from black members of the LDS Church, who had been treated equally in this respect under Joseph Smith’s presidency.[13]
During the Mormon flight from Illinois towards Utah in 1847, Brigham Young received a letter informing him of an inter-racial marriage by the son of a prominent black member, Walker Lewis. The letter was written by William Ivers Appleby, a Mormon elder, who desired to know if interracial marriage was an acceptable practice. Appleby sent the letter to Young at Winter Quarters, Nebraska, but Young was actually in Utah, and therefore did not receive Appleby’s missive until December 1, 1847, when he returned to Winter Quarters. Quite coincidentally, Appleby himself arrived in Winter Quarters on December 2. Young read Appleby’s letter and then had him personally report to Young and the eight apostles who were then in Nebraska.[14] In 1863, Young reported that he said, “Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? **If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so” **(Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 110)."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigham_Young
Again, do some research.
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twopekinguys
Guest
:thumbsup:Bravo!!
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Ahimsa
Guest
I don’t see why children should be executed based on their idolatry and wicked-lifestyle, especially since little babies usually don’t make idols or engage in other wicked acts.
The Book of Mormon likewise teaches that there are no divisions:
“He inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile.” (2 Nephi 26:33)
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Ahimsa
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Was Moses right or wrong when he outlined the kosher laws, clean/unclean foods?
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PaulDupre
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Really? Then why did the Mormons segregate and hate the negroes? Why were negroes denied the priesthood? Why did Mormon “prophets” preach vile and hateful things against black people?I don’t see why children should be executed based on their idolatry and wicked-lifestyle, especially since little babies usually don’t make idols or engage in other wicked acts.
The Book of Mormon likewise teaches that there are no divisions:
“He inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile.” (2 Nephi 26:33)
It just goes to further show how the Book of Mormon is an anti-Mormon book.
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Ahimsa
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And the Prophet in 1978 abolished the priesthood ban.
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Ahimsa
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So, whose position on the priesthood makes more sense to you: Smith’s or Young’s?
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Marc_Anthony
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Once again: This creates two possibilites. Either God was wrong or the Prophet was wrong. Obviously nobody here believes God was wrong. So the PRophet was wrong. But why do we believe the Prophet in 1978 and not the original Prophetic teaching? How do we know the new teaching was right? You said yourself that Prophets could be wrong.
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