Race in America: Two Opposing Narratives

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I’ll call one The Revolutionary Narrative. According to this narrative, existing systems and structures are so corrupted by racism that there is no possibility for reform. They need to be torn out root and branch to make way for a new social, economic, and political order.
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Most of us are aware of the Revolutionary Narrative. But there is another race narrative that doesn’t get nearly as much attention… I’ll call it The Preservation Narrative . It affirms the goodness of the principles on which America was founded and seeks to preserve them while continuously working to reform our systems and institutions to more perfectly reflect these principles.
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I found the entire piece to be well worth reading. I like the way he clarifies that there are two ways of looking at the situation in the US.

This seems to be more clear to those who are acutely aware of politics, but that there are two views to fighting racism is not clear to all, as the idea trumpeted is that to fight racism is to dismantle the system and (erroneously) that those who disagree with dismantling the system are racist and do not care about black people.

I am interested in people’s own thoughts and observations of what others are thinking.
 
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Annie, since you were brave enough to post this, I will be brave enough to answer. I’m surprised that nobody else has had the courage to post on this thread for at least 11 hours. Now before anyone wants to tell me how wrong I am, remember that this is my own opinion and I am still allowed to have one.

I know that everyone was horrified by the death of George Floyd, just horrified. It was cruel and abhorrent and it deserved protests. It even deserved days of protests. But then…the protests turned to riots.

Riots and burning and looting and vandalizing and then the hate that filled the air was almost palpable. This was beyond protesting and beyond the murder of George Floyd. This was anarchy. And it went on and on and on. It was as though the “resistance” that started the day of Trumps inauguration had blossomed into full fledged unbridled hate.

Hate for me because I’m white. Hate for me because I’m a believer in God and traditional values. Catholic values and American values. Values taught to me by my parents and their parents, by my teachers at school and by old fashioned parish priests. Now suddenly I’m the bad guy. Because of who I am and what I believe. Now I’m hated because of what that stupid and hate filled cop did to George Floyd. No, wait… it’s so much more than that.

Now, all white people are racists. Its like Oprah giving away cars… but instead of saying “you get a car” and “you get a car”, she claims “you’re a racist” and “you’re a racist” as she points to us. All white people have “white privelege” and “white guilt”. If we are all so racist, how on earth did we ever elect Obama, not once but twice???

Now we watch as our white over priveleged indoctrinated college kids storm our cities and tear down statues, burn down black and white owned businesses and try to set up their own little countries. They are even tearing down statues of abolitionists. I’m sure they don’t even know the meaning of the word. I hope watching the absolute ignorance of these so called “enlightened” kids shows parents what our kids are really learning in school… how to start and run a revolution, to hate America and all it stands for. Now it’s not only George Floyd, it’s defund the police, abolish the police, abolish the first and second amendment and change from a democracy and republic into a marxist and socialist society. Its communism and they are so uneducated they don’t even realize it. Or they have been so indoctrinated that they think communism is a good thing.

They have learned how to be bullies and silence those they disagree with. They have learned well how to hate. They have learned that it is not the content of our character, but the color of our skin that’s important. And to think that it only took four years and thousands of dollars to indoctrinate them.
 
Kininni said:
Annie, since you were brave enough to post this
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Well, I don’t think I am brave because I posted it for a totally different reason 🙂

I am concerned about the two visions of the US and the two very different solutions each is said to lead to.

I say “said to lead to” because I see some problems with what is happening within the current form of the civil rights movement as being very dangerous for the US, in that the Recolutionary analysis of the problem is framed in such a way that a certain outcome is assured, an outcome which, oddly enough, many have desired for a long time without any connection to the problem of black Americans.

We know that those who took the rallying cry Black Lives Matter and turned it into an organization call themselves “trained Marxists” and have taken over the idea that Black Lives should Matter as much as any other lives to promote their own agenda.

And that the BLM org is a bait-and-switch system in that it keeps the Black Lives Matter issue(s) in the forefront, thus duping people into giving them money and into a sort of alliance debt with other principles. (BTW, this is a totally Marxist way to act, this is what the USSR did in the 1960s, to ally themselves with more discrete causes and then become an umbrella for these causes, proselytizing from within.)

And that the BLM org is connecting pure socialism/Marxism (economic and cultural) with being against racism, this pulling many young people into believing in their agenda.

The message seems to be that if you are against racism, you will be for all the goals of the org and that if you are not for all these things, you are a racist.
 
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The true plight of black people has little or nothing to do with the police or what has been called “systemic racism.” Instead, we need to look at the responsibilities of those running our big cities.

Some of the most dangerous big cities are: St. Louis, Detroit, Baltimore, Oakland, Chicago, Memphis, Atlanta, Birmingham, Newark, Buffalo and Philadelphia. The most common characteristic of these cities is that for decades, all of them have been run by liberal Democrats. Some cities – such as Detroit, Buffalo, Newark and Philadelphia – haven’t elected a Republican mayor for more than a half-century. On top of this, in many of these cities, blacks are mayors, often they dominate city councils, and they are chiefs of police and superintendents of schools.

Democratic-controlled cities have the poorest-quality public education despite their large, and growing, school budgets. Consider Baltimore, Maryland. In 2016, in 13 of Baltimore’s 39 high schools, not a single student scored proficient on the state’s math exam. In six other high schools, only 1% tested proficient in math. Only 15% of Baltimore students passed the state’s English test. That same year in Philadelphia only 19% of eighth-graders scored proficient in math, and 16% were proficient in reading. In Detroit, only 4% of its eighth-graders scored proficient in math, and 7% were proficient in reading. It’s the same story of academic disaster in other cities run by Democrats.
(hat-tip @victoria33)
 
How do these results compare with the big dense cities run by Republicans? I mean, if you are drawing a contrast, let’s see what we are contrasting with.
 
Not many US big cities have Republican mayors, but among those who do are Miami, San Diego, Omaha, El Paso, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Ft Worth, and a few others. San Antonio has an Independent mayor.

Not sure what their crime stats are, though, compared to Democrat-run cities.it might be interesting to do a comparison with those listed a couple posts earlier.
 
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Ok, everyone, I am quite sure there is at least one thread discussing the differences between D-run and R-run cities, and I think that is a very interesting topic, but maybe for another thread?

Let’s consider the idea that there are two different views about how to solve the racial problems in the US. Do you think those two are about right? Do you think there is another major solution?

Do you think we need a revolution based on Critical Theory (aka Cultural Marxism)?

Or do you think we need to better fulfill the ideals held up by the Founding Fathers?

Do you sort of agree with one or the other but think something else needs to be included?
 
Imo, I go for Preservation Model, in that I do believe we can and should improve in fulfilling our ideals.

However, I do think a little more should be done. I think reparations for those who fought in WW2 (or their descendants) but who were unable to benefit from the GI Bill should be compensated.
 
OK folks, let’s think about that statement for a minute. Minorities have to be CONVINCED they are oppressed? What, not smart enough to figure it out themselves? All those black mayors, representatives, senators who are black…were those voted in by “voting for rich white people”?
Kininni said:
Riots and burning and looting and vandalizing and then the hate that filled the air was almost palpable. This was beyond protesting and beyond the murder of George Floyd. This was anarchy. And it went on and on and on. It was as though the “resistance” that started the day of Trumps inauguration had blossomed into full fledged unbridled hate.
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So are you saying BLM and the protests against police brutality are just a version of resistance against Trump? “Hate filled the air”? Really? On which side?

As for the riots, think about it. On one side you have specially selected and trained police with all the weapons in their arsenal. On the other side you have ordinary citizens, untrained, without weapons, and without formal leaders. The formally selected and trained police manage to kill innocent civilians (of all colors) on a regular basis–something along the lines of 1,000+ a year. The untrained civilians without formal leaders have burned a few buildings. See any difference?

I’m not going to respond beyond this because I have done that elsewhere, and anyone curious enough can find my posts. But I will say this: most of these posts are a good example of exactly why the protests have been so large and so long lasting. You just don’t get it, and that’s a real shame.
 
Annie said:
Ok, everyone, I am quite sure there is at least one thread discussing the differences between D-run and R-run cities, and I think that is a very interesting topic, but maybe for another thread?

Let’s consider the idea that there are two different views about how to solve the racial problems in the US. Do you think those two are about right? Do you think there is another major solution?

Do you think we need a revolution based on Critical Theory (aka Cultural Marxism)?

Or do you think we need to better fulfill the ideals held up by the Founding Fathers?

Do you sort of agree with one or the other but think something else needs to be included?
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Since you ask a serious question, it deserves a serious answer, so I will try.

I very much side with the Preservation Narrative, that the principles upon which this country was founded were basically sound and moral and overall good for society. It has proven itself resilient in the face of Civil War, huge diversity, corruption of all sorts, and still it survives and overcomes these challenges. Part of the wisdom of the way this system was founded is that it provides for improvement and recognizes that such improvements will be necessary.

However, I think many have interpreted this Preservation Narrative to preserve more than it should, to the extent of using it to support why a sport team should not change their name, to take a trivial example. I don’t think listening to the concerns of Black Lives Matter (the protesters themselves, not the national organization or website) is inconsistent with the Preservation Narrative. Change has always been incremental, and that is what distinguishes this narrative from the Revolutionary Narrative. (PBS just ran a two-part retrospective on “The Vote” - the story of women suffrage. The incremental nature of that struggle is instructive) , but we must not be afraid to consider all reasonable incremental steps, including the concerns of Black Lives Matter.
 
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I am not sure who was offended by the name of the DC football team as it seems most Native Americans polled were proud of the name, but I understand your point and agree that we should be listening to those affected by our current failures to fulfill the ideals.

Over the years I have learned little things here and there which have emphasized the importance of doing that, for example, I once heard a black woman say she didn’t like visiting a certain town because she felt unwelcome there. And that is a terrible thing, for a person to have that feeling in her own country!

Of course, it may have been the statue in that town which I only recently found out was of a Confederate 😳 so I got two lessons for the price of one.
 
It’s tricky because I feel like both sides aren’t striking the ideal balance here.

People need to be aware of marginalised groups and the different problems they face in order to actually improve the quality of life.

However, it shouldn’t negate the need for personal responsibility.

I feel like one side refuse to acknowledge disparities and only emphasise on personal responsibility, while the other only acknowledgew disparities and avoid personal responsibility. That being said I get these polarised views are often the minority and are louder than the average sane person, but these voices are often the loudest for both the right and the left.
 
I notice the same sort of division, not just on the topic of racism, but particularly here.

However, I believe that there is a lot of room for changing the minds of those “Preservationists” who currently don’t understand the issues faced by members of minority groups in the US, but I think there is not that much flexibility on the part of the others.

And I am optimistic in that I see more people sharing openly, and I hope that this will continue to move people’s hearts to change their minds.

I also see more information coming out. I had a fondness for Robert E Lee (because when I was young, I thought he was a friend of my mother’s 😳) but when I read his own words about how he treated his slaves, that was pretty much destroyed 😡

So I hope for movement in this area.
 
So Erikaspirit, you post but then say you aren’t going to respond. Well, Ok, but I’m going to respond to your post to me. You seem to be saying that the BLM are just protests with nice friendly people exercising their rights to protest. If only that were true. Anyone paying attention can see these are not “peaceful” protests. They were riots. BLM and Antifa took over the protests about George Floyd. As I said in my previous post, those protests were more than justified. We all were horrified by the murder of George Floyd.

And then it became so much more… now its defund the police, abolish prisons, free food, free housing, free education, free healthcare, free abortions. Overturn our system of government. And yes, hate still fills the air. I feel it every time someone from BLM is interviewed.

And yes, these so called peaceful protests evolved from the “resistance” to a legal and lawful election that the left didn’t like. We have since gone through 3 plus years of absolute hate that grows and grows. It’s like a 3 year temper tantrum. Unchecked because those who speak up are “cancelled”, ridiculed and bullied. No wonder the vast majority are silent.

You say that on one side there are police with weapons in their “arsenal”. On the other side are “ordinary” citizens, untrained and without weapons. Are you kidding me? I don’t know of one “ordinary” citizen who would bash a woman in the head with 2 by 4’s, set fire to a local grocery store, steal dozens of tv’s or kill a 77 year old retired cop. A BLACK cop. And this is your version of “ordinary” citizens? God help us. Please.

As for your stats, here is an interesting stat from the Washington Post, not a bastion of conservative news. In 2019, there were 14 unarmed blacks killed by the police. Hardly “systemic” racism. At the same time, there were 25 unarmed whites killed by police. 403 total whites killed by police and 250 blacks. Maybe we should start a “white lives matter” movement considering there were many more whites than blacks killed by police in 2019. Here’s the link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/

Sadly, you think I just don’t get it… but I do get it. It’s not about George Floyd anymore, now it’s about changing the country through Marxism and Communism. If it’s still posted, you should read the goals of the BLM. Among other things, one is the destruction of the family and another is the overthrow of the US government. Perhaps you just don’t get it but I hope you will soon.
 
Kininni said:
You seem to be saying that the BLM are just protests with nice friendly people exercising their rights to protest. If only that were true. Anyone paying attention can see these are not “peaceful” protests. They were riots. BLM and Antifa took over the protests about George Floyd.
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Neither extreme is completely correct. On one hand, there were violent acts of looting and destruction. They were not all friendly people exercising their rights to protest. On the other hand, the majority of the protesters were in fact peaceful, and in some cases actively intervened preventing violence by those around them. Also, the boogey man Antifa did not “take over” the protests. The protests were mostly by sincere people horrified by what they saw of the killing of George Floyd, and who did not embrace Marxism or any other bad ism that one might care to mention. Even some county Sheriffs participate in the marches!
 
Don’t worry, the virtuous heroic modern day leftists stood in for the Native Americans and became offended for them, and took down the evil name of a football team.

Unemployment? Rising deaths in major cities following a retreat of police forces? No… we had bigger problems. Names of sports teams… Aunt Jemima logos… THOSE are the real evils.

And the saintly leftists, all knowing and virtuous, allowed us access to their omnipotence… how good of them. Let us all bow to the alter of leftism, that we might one day be blessed to become offended for someone and actively attempt to ruin their livelihood…
 
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LeafByNiggle said:
On one hand, there were violent acts of looting and destruction. … On the other hand, the majority of the protesters were in fact peaceful,
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You must have seen protests I missed. The protestors I saw were expressing rage and bitterness and self pity and even hatred. So ugly, so wrong.

What is the Catholic response in any of this? Why aren’t Catholics stepping forth and saying that the hatred and anger and self pity, so strikingly on display, should be replaced by forgiveness and love?
 
annem said:
Why aren’t Catholics stepping forth and saying that the hatred and anger and self pity, so strikingly on display, should be replaced by forgiveness and love?
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I guess for the same reason Jesus didn’t step forth and say the anger he felt at the money changers in the temple should be replaced by forgiveness and love until after he had turned over their tables.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
I guess for the same reason Jesus didn’t step forth and say the anger he felt at the money changers in the temple should be replaced by forgiveness and love until after he had turned over their tables.
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Cute, but no cigar. We are all told to forgive our enemies, and you can’t get away from that by trying to suggest we are the equal of the God of the universe and get to attack those who do wrong.

Jesus can, and will in the future, judge the world. I don’t get to. I get to struggle daily to forgive and love my enemies. And moreover, I know that only by doing this will I be happy; feeding the rage in your heart only hurts you, never your enemies.

Today, vast numbers in America think it is right to hold onto rage and hatred, to seek after some ephemeral justice, when what we should be doing is seeking to forgive and love. That, and that alone, with fill us with joy.
 
The majority of protesters were just as peaceful as the protesters in the March for Life. Are you critical of them too?
 
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