Race in America: Two Opposing Narratives

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Come on. Even the protestors who simply marched, carried signs that were full of anger, self pity, hatred, etc. They screamed one angry, ugly cry after another. This cannot be said of the people in the March for Life.

God asks all of us to seek to love and forgive our enemies. The protests, the looting, the arson, the throwing of bricks, the threats - none of this is what God wants.’

I am not saying that every single person who ever attended a March for Life has behaved perfectly, but overall, and certainly in comparison to the rage and threatening behavior of the many of the protestors, their behavior is in line with Christianity.
 
I’d like to hear you tell the March for Life protesters they should not be so angry at the politicians who make abortion available and love and forgive them instead.
 
I am astonished. Of course, of course I would be glad to tell them that. They would mostly all tell themselves the same thing. Catholicism tells us to love and forgive. What, do you imagine that they are all full of ugly rage and hatred like the protestors? I have attended a March for Life. And I never heard so much as one single utterance as full of hatred as those expressed by the protestors.

I am not just trying to score a point here, by the way. I am being completely truthful. I have attended a number of pro life events, and in every single one I have been to, more love and forgiveness was observable than you can imagine.

Angry with politicians? No, no, no. Upset, saddened, but not in any way full of the kind of mean hatred and rage I saw in every second of every protest I saw.
 
@LeafByNiggle

I think that the situation may have varied between different cities, and that the news showed only the “most interesting” scenes.

I imagine that the protestors comprised peaceful and forgiving to rowdy and hate-filled --once they hit violent rioting I don’t consider them protestors-- and what each of us saw was very limited.
 
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annem said:
Angry with politicians? No, no, no. Upset, saddened
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Yes, that is exactly how most of the racial justice protesters feel. They are upset and saddened by the injustice. I’m not talking about the looters and vandals. I’m talking about the ones quietly marching , carrying a sign that reads “Black Lives Matter.”
 
LeafByNiggle said:
. I’m talking about the ones quietly marching , carrying a sign that reads “Black Lives Matter.”
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Are these the same people who have professors fired because they dared to say "All lives matter’?
Again, they are not seeking forgiveness and love, are they?
 
Well, my goodness, you certainly seem to have seen some protests I didn’t.

The protests that I saw were full of hatred and rage and demands. The students I saw interviewed were full of threats. Have you read some of the demands from students in university after university, demanding an end to free speech, demanding retribution against anyone who dared to utter even the smallest, most infinitesimal complaint against their demands? Do you know if that poor professor at UCLA who didn’t want to give students good grades when they hadn’t earned them is even still employed (if anyone knows, I would like to hear about it; I pray the poor man is not out of a job, or being threatened or even injured).

The protestors are in striking contrast to pro life marchers, whose marches over decade after decade have never once devolved into hatred, riots, looting, arson, threats, etc.

Of course I hope you are correct, that there really are at least a few of the protestors whose hearts are full of forgiveness. Where were they when stores were being broken into and bricks were being thrown and people were forced from their jobs and anyone who dared not to agree with every single fad belief of the left was being cancelled?
 
I’m glad you saw some peaceful protests. Here’s what I found disturbing about the ones I saw: the signs full of anger and hate, screaming people who yelled threats and demands, and never anyone trying to make the protests lean more in the direction of love and forgiveness.

Where were the protestors who tried top stop the violence, who argued in favor of forgiveness, and who put themselves between the screaming mobs who were destroying historical statues? Where were the peaceful protestors when university professors were being cancelled? Where were the proponents of free speech?

Again, not a single pro life march ever resulted in a city being turned into ashes, looted, destroyed stores, and statues, like the one of St Junipero Serra, destroyed?
 
annem said:
Where were the protestors who tried top stop the violence
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There were several. I saw some on the news who stopped a looter from smashing a store window. Again, if you only watch Fox News you will only see the violent protests. Did you see the one where the Sheriff of Saginaw county, Michigan was marching with the protesters? Peacefully, of course.
 
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Sorry, I rarely watch TV, I’m more a book person. Bookaholic actually. For ten years I didn’t even see a single TV show. This is not me sounding snobby, just that I really do love to read and always have. News I get from the computer, and not all that much. So you are right I could have missed things.

I am heartened to hear that somewhere there were a few decent protestors. But it certainly doesn’t seem as if there were many of them, or that they had much influence. Look at the number of statues vandalized. It’s has a whiff of the French revolution or the Communists burning down the churches and shoving all the priests off to the gulag, doesn’t it?

What should disturb all of us is the trend for ever increasing fanaticism. Can anyone with even the smallest nontrendy opinion survive? Andrew Sullivan, no conservative, cancelled. New York Times writers cancelled. J K Rowling under severe attack because she dared to actually have an opinion that did not immediately fall into line with whatever the newest fad opinion was.

You say there were some peaceful protestors. Great. But they surely didn’t seem to have much influence. And all the trends now are so ominous for our culture due to the non peaceful protestors.

And what is more important what about Catholics in America? Leftists are already suing charitable Catholic hospitals. They have made it impossible for a pregnant devout Catholic to be certain her baby goes to a devout, practicing Catholic couple. Catholic schools are in dire trouble, due to the lawsuits. And leftists are now gunning for anyone with a membership in, of all things, the Knights of Columbus.

Aren’t you terrified by all this?
 
The nation cannot indefinitely tolerate violent mobs taking over city streets, attacking, vandalizing, looting, burning, vandalizing religious symbols. Lawlessness cannot reign unchecked.
 
annem said:
I am heartened to hear that somewhere there were a few decent protestors. But it certainly doesn’t seem as if there were many of them, or that they had much influence.
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To be fair, preventing vandalism is not really their job. They prevented when they could, but the vandalism wasn’t always right there where and when they were. It happened one street over, or after they had passed by.
annem said:
What should disturb all of us is the trend for ever increasing fanaticism.
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On all sides, yes.
annem said:
Aren’t you terrified by all this?
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I would be glad to discuss that with you in a different thread, but this one is about race in America and two opposing narratives regarding race.
 
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Annie said:
Do you sort of agree with one or the other but think something else needs to be included?
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At the risk of jumping over about 30 posts, IMHO it is about understanding what America was founded on (which was not slavery, as there were debates among the Founding Fathers over the issue). America was founded on a set of principles, among which were that we did not need a king/queen or equivalent to determine what we think/do; and was founded on a Constitution along with a Bill of Rights (Amendments 1-10) with the ability to amend and add to those rights. It was also founded on the concept of liberty, which in itself has expanded since then.

However, simply standing on the Constitution and Bill of Rights is not going th=o change people’s hearts. No law enacted or proposed will do that. Some of thopse laws may make overt racism somewhere between difficult and impossible, but none - not a single one - will turn people’s hearts.

What needs to be added? I would suggest that the Gospels speak clearly of what we owe to one another, and it is not based on race, or color, or ethnicity. It has to do with love - which is not an emotion; it is a choice to will the best for the other, whether that other is black or white or red or yellow (to use terms hearkening back to the '60’s).

It is not Utopianist. It understands, and seeks further understanding, of human nature in all its failings and all its achievements.

It understands that some elements of society are not willing to live within that society and follow the laws, so it does not propose that they continue to live a life of crime (for those who are against incarceration of any type).

It understands that some people are violent, and when they have violated laws there may be violence in their arrest. It also understands proportionality of response.

It understands that there may be better policing methods and tactics, and understands that getting there will take far, far more than simplistic rhetoric. It acknowledges that there are a multitude of peer reviewed studies which show that having more police, not less on the streets is the number one way of reducing crime - and I know of none showing that fewer police reduce crime.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
I’d like to hear you tell the March for Life protesters they should not be so angry at the politicians who make abortion available and love and forgive them instead.
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You are confusing love, with is not an emotion but rather seeks the best for the other. Love is not done away with by righteous anger, which is anger directed at wrongdoing.

Need I mention Christ’s actions in Mt. 21: 12-13; Mark 11: 15-18; Luke 19: 45-46 and John 2: 13-17?

My twin daughters were born over 9 weeks early, at 3 lbs. 5 oz. and 3 lbs. 6 oz. - a size and age of gestation where numerous babies are killed.

I can’t even begin to describe how snide your comment is and how offensive you are in making it.
 
Just as a curiosity, did those same local stations show the damages which the city administration seems to peg somewhere around $53,000,000? And did they show any interviews with anyone who could explain how that much damage could be caused by peaceful protesters?
 
Why do people who think they know what racism is about take the opinion that everyone thinks whites are racist? It’s almost funny to me because it’s like watching Dunning–Kruger effect in real time. If you are white until you go out of your way to look you’ll never learn. You think you know but you don’t. Even when you do know you’ll never understand because even if you walk a mile in someone else’s shoes they’ll never fit.

You aren’t racist because you’re white. What you are is privileged.
You can pass as an innocent civilian at a glance. You don’t carry the stereotypes over your head.
Now can you invoke a negative one by your dress and how you hold yourself? Of course but that is not your skin.

You can walk into a store and leave a nap sack at the front and the owner will just smile. A black kid won’t get half way in before being sternly reminded to do the above.

Yes, it’s okay to be white. Sometimes cops will give white people a hard time but the exception doesn’t disprove the rule.

All the more reason if you been there to relate and push for accountability.

Yes, the riots are terrible. A frustrated people being murdered has no outlet. So if a target or Walmart has to burn so you ask how did we let it get this far…

It’s worth it.
 
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I will tell you exactly how it got that far (for a Walmart or Target to burn). It’s called lawlessness, lack of civility, lack of morals, lack of compassion, and lack of family values. Its lack of self control. There is absolutely zero excuses to act in such a manner. Stop with the high crime rates, stop with the violence, stop the broken families, stop the . . . morally problematic . . . music, stop using derogatory names to one another. Do find a role model, do act civil, do take education seriously, do treat each other with respect, and by all means DO believe in and love God with ALL your heart.

All the rioting, burning, looting, and complete lawlessness isn’t advancing any cause. Underneath the media’s false facade there is a deeper and more intense stereotyping being fulfilled. The actions of lawlessness and being uncivil proves what so many are already thinking, it verifies their thoughts. Now for Martin Luther King, he did things the right way, he earned respect and advanced the cause for his people, he moved them forward, not two steps back.
 
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otjm said:
And did they show any interviews with anyone who could explain how that much damage could be caused by peaceful protesters?
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Yes, local news reported that too. But it not caused by the peaceful protesters.
otjm said:
I can’t even begin to describe how snide your comment is and how offensive you are in making it.
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No offense intended. I am not demeaning March for Life protesters. I have respect for them, just as I have respect for the racial justice protesters. I am just pointing out that they are both protesting a kind of injustice. On one hand you have the injustice of abortion. On the other hand you have the injustice of systemic racism. Telling the protesters for racial equality that they should stop marching and just forgive and love the white supremacists is like telling the abortion protesters they should stop marching and just forgive and love the politicians who make abortion legal. Both of these are equally offensive to the sincere people on those marches.
 
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