Race in America: Two Opposing Narratives

[annem]

elling the protesters for racial equality that they should stop marching and just forgive and love the white supremacists is like telling the abortion protesters they should stop marching and just forgive and love the politicians who make abortion legal. Both of these are equally offensive to the sincere people on those marches.

Sorry, no. No and no.

God has told us all that we need to forgive and love our enemies, and there are no exceptions. Not for the 1,000 priests the Soviet atheists sent to the gulag -12 were alive after five years. Not for the Jews and the Nazis who sent them to the ovens. Not for the poor couple whose life savings were stolen, or for the abused girl and her sexually perverted father. No exceptions.

In June of this year, Biden stated he approved of abortion until the moment of birth. The Democrats recently put forth a 66 million dollar bill to fund abortion abroad, likely, if passed, to mean millions of innocent babies murdered. But I am not allowed to rage or hate or loot or even be mean to them, even if I feel these actions are the actions of monsters.

God’s laws are always to our benefit. Anger and hatred hurt the person who holds onto these emotions, corrupts the soul, leaves the person emotionally crippled, damaged, stymied, unable to move forward in life.

 

[annem]

Yes, the riots are terrible. A frustrated people being murdered has no outlet. So if a target or Walmart has to burn so you ask how did we let it get this far…

God tells us to love and forgive. Those who refuse to obey, and worse, those who resort to criminal behavior, are wrong

 

[LeafByNiggle]

But I am not allowed to rage or hate or loot or even be mean to them, even if I feel these actions are the actions of monsters.

But you are allowed to march in peaceful protest of these actions, right?

 

[annem]

Of course, and let us examine the stunning differences between the pro life marchers and the BLM protests, which turned into, time and again, horror.

from what I have seen, pro lifers usually even clean up the area after a march. What a stunning, amazing difference. Think of the difference between the speakers at the pro life rally, of the joy and hope and love shown by pro lifers, and by the rage, hatred, and threats spoken at the BLM protests

Of course, there are bound to be exceptions. I am sure there have been acts of hatred even at pro life marches, and acts of love and forgiveness at BLM protests. But you have to admit, the difference is striking, and delineates the difference between the two groups

 

[LeafByNiggle]

But you have to admit, the difference is striking, and delineates the difference between the two groups

I do not. You said yourself that you see only what comes to you on the Internet. That can be very subject to the silo effect.

 

[Annie]

Lwafby, what do you think of those who committed crimes: theft, vandalism, arson, under the guise of protesting George Floyd’s death and that of others at the hands of the police?

 

[Anrakyr]

Now for Martin Luther King, he did things the right way, he earned respect and advanced the cause for his people, he moved them forward, not two steps back.

He also was assassinated. So much for being civil.

There is absolutely zero excuses to act in such a manne

When you say there’s no excuse you kill any kinda discussion how people get to that point. You cut off any sort of build up.

“Guilty of Murder.”
“But judge he was brandishing a weapon at me and my family!”
“Did you kill him?”
“Yes but…”
“Next case.”

We are working with crooked cops and racial stereotypes.

The cops are never prosecuted, even if they get to bad a rap sheet they just move two cities over. So let’s say the victims families sue the cop or the city.

Sounds reasonable.

Except cops are protected by qualified immunity. If at any point the judge can shut down the case.

So the cops are not protecting
The DAs office isn’t pressing charges
Judges are quashing civil suits
And to top it off we have people like you playing on media and broken homes.

Society has failed so society gets to burn.

God tells us to love and forgive. Those who refuse to obey, and worse, those who resort to criminal behavior, are wrong

God also tells you to turn the other cheek.

 

[annem]

Society has failed so society gets to burn

You know that is not what God wants.

Pro life march = Joyful people march in love, no crimes, no threats, just pleading with those of hardened hearts to listen

BLM protests = City after city looted, ruined, buildings burned, bricks thrown, an ugly combination of self pity and rage and hatred expressed by the speakers, historical monuments destroyed, millions left terrified and ominous threats uttered

What happens to anyone who disobeys God and holds onto rage and hatred? Take the example of a little girl sexually abused by her father.

Refusing God’s will to forgive, any one or more of these things are likely: Wounded, she slides into self absorption and rage. She struggles and fails in school, makes friends with other people whose souls are choked with dark emotions, becomes addicted to drugs or alcohol, is too resentful and too full of complaints for her husband to stay with her, is constantly telling everyone about her abuse, blames every unhappy thing in her life on her father, finds her children hate her because of her bitter nature, she fails in her employment, and is still seething with hatred and recrimination toward her father at the age of 80… about something that happened to her seventy years earlier.

Or, accepting that she must forgive and love any one or more of these things are likely: She learns to pray and prays she will learn acceptance and love. She makes friends with fellow Catholics, who are joyful people and help her to try to forgive her father. If she failed in school because of the abuse, and if she never really succeeds in life later on in her employment, she refuses to blame the situation on her father, and simply tries, instead, to find happiness in all the small joys of life. Her marriage is happy, her children love her, and by age 80 she can hardly remember the abuse.

Love and forgiveness always create joy and fulfill God’s will; hatred and rage do nothing but injure the person who indulges in them.

 

[Anrakyr]

She struggles and fails in school, makes friends with other people whose souls are choked with dark emotions, becomes addicted to drugs or alcohol, is too resentful and too full of complaints for her husband to stay with her, is constantly telling everyone about her abuse, blames every unhappy thing in her life on her father, finds her children hate her because of her bitter nature, she fails in her employment, and is still seething with hatred and recrimination toward her father at the age of 80… about something that happened to her seventy years earlier.

Sounds like mental Heath issues, not an inability to forgive.

 

[annem]

Society has failed so society gets to burn.

I suggested that one or more of these could be a consequence of lack of forgiveness. May I take it you are now ready to admit that lack of forgiveness is a serious moral issue? That you admit you were wrong to argue “Society has failed so society gets to burn”?

 

[NevermoreLenore]

The cops are never prosecuted, even if they get to bad a rap sheet they just move two cities over. So let’s say the victims families sue the cop or the city.

Sounds reasonable.

Except cops are protected by qualified immunity. If at any point the judge can shut down the case.

So the cops are not protecting

This is offensive to all of the good law enforcement officers who serve day and night and put their lives on the line for all. Yes, there are some people in uniform who have done egregious things for which they should be held accountable.

My husband served as a Navy Intelligence Specialist followed by 25 years as a law enforcement officer. He rose in the ranks and commanded a great many officers. He was well respected by both those above him and his subordinates. He poured his life into serving our communities. The job was sucking the life out of him, largely because of the current climate and vitriol towards law enforcement. In what only can be described as the hand of God, my husband retired and moved to a job where he helps fellow vets. This all came together right before Covid and the protests. I’m constantly grateful my husband got out when he did and with the stress of the job gone, he’s a completely different man.

YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT OFFICERS ENDURE. The threats they receive, the vicious treatment, the life and death decisions that have to made in microseconds. Don’t say ‘they chose the job’. Most choose the job with sincere desire to serve their communities.

In the interest of charity I’ll leave it at that, but it’s pretty easy to criticise from the outside. Aside from some bad players, what officers endure is shocking and the public doesn’t hear the half of it.

 

[signit]

YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT OFFICERS ENDURE. The threats they receive, the vicious treatment, the life and death decisions that have to made in microseconds. Don’t say ‘they chose the job’. Most choose the job with sincere desire to serve their communities.

This especially.

I always say, whenever an officer discharges a weapon they’re going to be second-guessed.

If the officer discharges a weapon, you’re going to hear the weeping mother crying “they killed my baby.” Somebody else is going to say, “the officer discharged the weapon from twelve feet away; they’re supposed to wait until they’re six feet away . . . .”

But if the officer doesn’t discharge the weapon, there might be a police officer’s funeral.

 

[Ars_sacra]

The system isn’t corrupted by “racism,” which it in itself is a false narrative that contradicts itself constantly, it’s corrupted by sin and a devotion to Satan. Our country was literally founded by heretics (i.e. Protestants) and Free Masons. Our country was founded on fraud, starting with the smuggling of tea from the Dutch and continuing on today with theft through taxes, acceptance of usury, and our fractional reserve banking system.

As for race, God made different races and he gave them specific nations (i.e. nations=natio=birth). Regardless on how one uses the Tower of Babel to justify their actions (some of which are evil and some of which are not), it’s clear that it was God’s will that we should form different nations, lest our pride consume us. Nations are founded upon families and those families consist of racial/ethnic communities. Idolizing race is a sin, which many people are guilty of, from Jews to Europeans to Africans and so forth. However, guarding ones heritage, culture (which is entirely based on that culture’s religious foundation), and family should be done by all, and, yes, this includes Europeans or European Americans. People (i.e. races/nations) that are heretical or blasphemous or do evil WILL be punished by God eventually. His justice will lead us to correct our errors.

The ONLY way this country will ever be saved is if people turn away from Satan, align themselves with the Holy Catholic Church, and, from there, we change elements of our political system. The entire notion of “liberty” we took from the French Revolution, which was purely evil in its aims and in its actions (e.g. Festival of Reason at Notre Dame, killing of priests, changing the calendar, etc).

 

[Annie]

The entire notion of “liberty” we took from the French Revolution, which was purely evil in its aims and in its actions (e.g. Festival of Reason at Notre Dame, killing of priests, changing the calendar, etc).

You do realize the French Revolution began 13 years after the American?

Yes, the Founding Fathers were probably influenced by some “Enlightenment” ideals, but they were also influenced by the Iroquios and by St Robert Bellamine, which may explain why our revolution did not turn out like France’s.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Lwafby, what do you think of those who committed crimes: theft, vandalism, arson, under the guise of protesting George Floyd’s death and that of others at the hands of the police?

Compared to the huge number of peaceful protesters, the relatively few vandals were likely opportunists who used the ongoing protest as cover. So you are right that they were acting under the guise of protesting racial injustice. And they may have even believed it. I don’t know. But I do not approve of their actions or condone them. Nor do I believe the majority of peaceful protesters ought to be punished or their movement ignored because of the actions of those few. But if you want to see real destruction, look at the race riots of 1967 where large parts of Detroit burned. More people died in the Detroit riots than in all the BLM protests this year in all the cities combined. And Detroit was not alone. In 1967 there were 159 different riots in Atlanta, Boston, Cincinnati, Buffalo, Tampa, Birmingham, Chicago, NYC, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Newark, to name a few.

 

[Annie]

by the rage, hatred, and threats spoken at the BLM protests

Do you think you have seen more of the peaceful protesters or more of the more radical and possibly violent?

.

 

[otjm]

On the other hand you have the injustice of systemic racism.

Ah yes, systemic racism, the mantra and rallying cry of the liberals.

Except for a couple of minor details.

1. Those claiming it appear to have absolutely no knowledge of the last 70 to 100 years of racism and what has been done to change that; they are totally ignorant of the level of racism then, and how that has decreased.
2. They make wild charges that “systems” are racist without any factual backup. In particular, they make those charges against all police agencies, again without any factual over-all information; they base it on rates of arrest and incidents they call excessive - some of which is true, but the fact that an individual police officer has been excessive is not proof to anyone who understands causality, real world statistics, or even bothers to consider the rest of the agency. Nor is what is called “excessive” actually so; in the majority of incidents, it is the individual(s) they are trying to arrest who resist, often violently.
3. The charges of racism are being coupled with the notion that only whites can be racist - and absolute, total lie and fabrication. As a white, I have experienced racist attitudes and comments by Blacks, Latinos and Asians. I also have observed racism by Blacks against Asians and Asians against Blacks.

4)The underlying philosophy behind much of the chin chatter, including defunding police and stopping prisons is a false philosophy of utopianism which ignores the real world.There is not a single study, peer reviewed that I know of saying that fewer police on the streets reduces crime; but there are multiple studies - peer reviewed which say that more police on the street reduce crime.

1. The protests allegedly started over excessive use of force and racism; they now have morphed in two directions, both of which have spiraled out of any possible intelligent conversation of either subject because both are fueled almost exclusively by an emotional war of words having nothing to do with any rational solution. And making a charge of “systemic racism” is one of those emotionally laden charges, completely undefined but clearly intended to rile up the “true believers” - as it has done - with zero evidence… But ;who needs evidence when one is on a bloodlust rampage?

If you want to discuss racism, it would help if you do not go around throwing out emotional phrases with no evidentiary backing.

 

[Anrakyr]

This will be easy:

Those claiming it appears to have absolutely no knowledge of the last 70 to 100 years of racism and what has been done to change that; they are totally ignorant of the level of racism then, and how that has decreased.

Racism has only become more subtle publicly. The fact I can google race riots and they seem to happen every 10-20 years is telling. It means it happens that someone gets shot and killed and people had enough.
And nothing gets done again.

They make wild charges that “systems” are racist without any factual backup.

“But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the negro poor has worsened over the last twelve or fifteen years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity.”
― Martin Luther King Jr.

Gentrification, over-policing black communities leftover from the days of segregation. Their schools are underfunded because the property tax is so disproportionate to “Non-black.”

Not saying other people don’t fall into those same ruts (see Detroit)

The charges of racism are being coupled with the notion that only whites can be racist - and absolute, total lie, and fabrication. As a white, I have experienced racist attitudes and comments by Blacks, Latinos and Asians. I also have observed racism by Blacks against Asians and Asians against Blacks.

What you experienced was prejudice of course but it’s not racism. The reason for this is while there are slurs for white people they are not based on stereotypes that work on you. If I said N-word Knife, most people know what that is, more importantly, what it implies. It’s a broken bottle instead of a knife cause man he can’t afford it.

I call you a cracker and that just means youre white… ouch. Such pain.

 

[otjm]

What you experienced was prejudice of course but it’s not racism.

BS.

Their schools are underfunded because the property tax is so disproportionate to “Non-black.”

I have no doubt that some schools are underfunded. But you make a blank statement for the entire United States as you sit in Canada and make prognostications. Your comment is simply untrue as a blanket statement.

What you experienced was prejudice of course but it’s not racism. The reason for this is while there are slurs for white people they are not based on stereotypes that work on you

You have not the faintest clue as to what I have experienced.

I call you a cracker and that just means youre white… ouch. Such pain.

Considering that is a term which has been used widely in the past throughout the US by whites referring to other whites, you have not made any point.

Racism has only become more subtle publicly. The fact I can google race riots and they seem to happen every 10-20 years is telling. It means it happens that someone gets shot and killed and people had enough

Yes, I remember the riots over Michael Brown; and I remember the reports which came out subsequently; his DNA was found on the pistol of the officer as he had tried to wrest it away from the officer, then backed up, then started to charge again at the officer. and there were three young black men who all testified in the Grand Jury backing up what the officer had reported - which is why the Grand Jury came back with a “no true bill”. And I remember Eric Holder going out with his DOJ lawyers because he was sure that Michael Brown’s civil rights had been violated, and he and his lawyers quietly closed their briefcases and went back to Washington DC with no charges against the officer - as there had been no violation; in order to justify the time and expenses spent, he said that the police department had to go though a retraining.

It appears you believe no white person can be discriminated against; given your mindset I am not going to argue with you but simply ignore your comments.

You are right - it is easy. You think you have taken me apart; you haven’t the faintest clue as to who I am what I have done, or what I think or have experienced. Instead of discussion, you have attacked. It is called “showing your hand”.

 

[otjm]

So far in 2020: shot to death or killed by a driver:

Public Safety Officer Jackson Ryan Winkeler: Gunfire
Officer Tiffany-Victoria Bilon Enriquez;: Gunfire
Officer Kaulike Kalama: Gunfire
Deputy Sheriff Richard Edward Whitten: Gunfire
Police Officer Nick O’Rear: Gunfire
Trooper Joseph Jon Bullock: Gunfire
Officer David Kellywood: Gunfire
Corporal Andrew J. Gillette: Gunfire
Police Officer Brent William Perry Scrimshire: Gunfire
Sergeant James R. O’Connor, IV: Gunfire
Police Officer Christopher Ryan Walsh: Gunfire
Sergeant Ben Jenkins: Gunfire
Commander Greg Carnicle: Gunfire
Officer Breann Leath: Gunfire
Police Officer Justin Putnam: Gunfire
Police Officer Dan Walters: Gunfire
Lieutenant Glenn Dale Hutto, Jr.: Gunfire
Police Officer Michael S. Mosher: Gunfire
Police Officer Cody N. Holte: Gunfire
Police Officer Nathan James Lyday: Gunfire
Police Officer Waldis “Jay” Johnson: Gunfire
Lieutenant Stephen P. Williams: Gunfire
Sergeant Damon Gutzwiller: Gunfire
Deputy Sheriff James H. Blair: Gunfire
Wildlife Officer Julian Keen, Jr.: Gunfire
Sergeant Craig Johnson: Gunfire
Police Officer Anthony Dia: Gunfire
Police Officer Edelmiro Garza, Jr.: Gunfire
Police Officer Ismael Chavez: Gunfire

Police Officer Jonathan Shoop : Gunfire, killed inadvertently by fellow officer during gun battle initiated by suspect

Police Officer Katherine Mary Thyne: Vehicular assault
Police Officer Alan Daniel McCollum: Vehicular assault
Police Officer Kaia LaFay Grant: Vehicular assault
Police Officer Christopher Eric Ewing: Vehicular Assault
Police Officer Destin Legieza: Vehicular assault

Of the 5 vehicular assaults, 3 were by drunk drivers; one by a suicidal driver who swevered toward and aimed for two police who were laying out stop sticks - one died the last was draged about a block; the car slammed iinto a tree pinning the officer between the tree and the car.

As of July 14, there have been 65 deaths in the line of duty, including the above; 5 of the 65 are Covid-19 deaths; with another 53 cases pending and not included in the total.