Racism in a Classist America

[catholicray]

Classism effects lower class whites as well but can be overcome more easily than lower class blacks. It’s never easy but blacks are having to tackle two fronts, not just one. When we can look at a rich black man and not consider him an exception, then we’re getting somewhere.

Yes I agree. The reason I think it is important for this conversation because the idea of a universal white privilege is destructive to a larger white alliance that would lend itself to the community as a whole.

It’s a point of understanding that the black community has it the worst but there’s a huge target audience in the lower classes who are white and generally accepting at a real level of equality.

While the lower class of whites does indeed have an advantage from a class perspective it’s not the same as white advantage at higher levels of our class society.

 

[meltzerboy2]

Or we despise identity politics which separates the races, believing that society is and should be colorblind.

As I have tried to explain before, the term “White privilege” does NOT mean that Whites are economically advantaged, that they all or mostly live in luxury and don’t have a care in the world. White privilege refers to the things that Whites take for granted, things they don’t even think about or need to think about, such as the questions you asked in your post. But non-Whites do need to think about these things; they cannot afford to take much for granted.

 

[meltzerboy2]

Even my use of the term “non-Whites” may be looked at suspiciously by some people of color. This, I guess, is an example of a microaggression on my part, using White as the norm of comparison. POC is a better term.

Likewise, “disabled people” is no longer considered PC; the preferred term is “people with disabilities,” to emphasize the fact they are people just like those without disabilities. They need not be defined by their disability.

Personally, I am not a great fan of PC language although I can understand how some people may be offended. And when it touches home, I can see more clearly. So don’t call me a Hebrew, please; but Jew is fine and Jewish person even better.

 

[catholicray]

Or we despise identity politics which separates the races, believing that society is and should be colorblind.

As I have tried to explain before, the term “White privilege” does NOT mean that Whites are economically advantaged, that they all or mostly live in luxury and don’t have a care in the world. White privilege refers to the things that Whites take for granted, things they don’t even think about or need to think about, such as the questions you asked in your post. But non-Whites do need to think about these things; they cannot afford to take much for granted.

That may be so but I’d refer back to the fact that a universal white privilege does not exist. That is to say that concerning power and “voice” there are masses of white people who can not nor could not previously lend a helping voice for the black community.

What I’m saying is you have to understand varying levels of white privilege rather than some universal white privilege that every person with white skin enjoys. It’s simply not true.

 

[catholicray]

Even my use of the term “non-Whites” may be looked at suspiciously by some people of color. This, I guess, is an example of a microaggression on my part, using White as the norm of comparison. POC is a better term.

Black and White are purely societal constructs. There is only one human race. I agree with the terms African American or Native American for example in so much as it accurately identifies nationality where it is applied accurately but it should be thoroughly understood that there is no such thing as a white race or black race that is false. There is a human race.

 

[Erikaspirit16]

There hasn’t been a classless society since farmers replaced hunter gatherers 10-12 ,000 years ago.

Every language has a prestige dialect. Every ethnic group has people who are “preferred” for some reason–for example, tall people more than shorter people. Almost every ethnic group sees men as superior to women. Every group prefers handsome/beautiful people over ugly people. Shall I go on?

The point is, it’s counter-productive to see this as an “American” problem. In fact, the US is probably one of the least racist countries in the world in terms of its laws and its social taboos about saying negative things about different groups. Most other countries are very open about their preferences.

So it’s a human problem, not an “American” problem. The best we can do at this point is to recognize our (=everyone’s) biases and try to compensate for them.

 

[otjm]

But the point is that, if you went to trial as a White man, you’d be more likely to be acquitted.

Have you actually practiced criminal law? If so, certainly not in Oregon.

 

[meltzerboy2]

We’re not really using the terms “Black” and “White” with regard to race anymore but rather color. POC, for example, stands for people of color. I think it includes African Americans as well as Native Americans, Asian Americans, and Latino Americans. However, there is also the acronym BIPOC which stands for Blacks, Indigenous, and People of Color. It does get rather confusing. Add to this the fact that some American Indians do not like the term Native Americans. Similarly, Negro is regarded as an anachronism and even an insult, as is colored people. I think Hispanic is still acceptable but Latino is preferred, Latina for women, Latinx even better.

This is one reason why I am not big on PC language.

 

[catholicray]

There hasn’t been a classless society since farmers replaced hunter gatherers 10-12 ,000 years ago.

Every language has a prestige dialect. Every ethnic group has people who are “preferred” for some reason–for example, tall people more than shorter people. Almost every ethnic group sees men as superior to women. Every group prefers handsome/beautiful people over ugly people. Shall I go on?

The point is, it’s counter-productive to see this as an “American” problem. In fact, the US is probably one of the least racist countries in the world in terms of its laws and its social taboos about saying negative things about different groups. Most other countries are very open about their preferences.

So it’s a human problem, not an “American” problem. The best we can do at this point is to recognize our (=everyone’s) biases and try to compensate for them.

I don’t think I ever exclaimed that this was specifically an American problem. I wouldn’t agree with myself if I did lol. At the same time it’s a real problem that is not understood well enough to be addressed at all. To a large extent it’s a problem that most Americans wouldn’t even acknowledge. The only thing you really said here if you think about it, is that you think America has one of the nicest forms of classism in the world. That’s kind of a misunderstanding.

Classism is understood economically in the consideration of power to generate wealth and what power is lent to wealth. I don’t care how nice politically correct America feels it’s a matter of how equally justice, liberty, freedom and peace is distributed.

 

[meltzerboy2]

I am not claiming UNIVERSAL White privilege, but based on the history of the United States, there has been White privilege, that is, things Whites don’t have to think about but POC do. I would even add White male privilege from the very beginning of our nation, but male privilege is not at all confined to the U. S. or to Whites.

 

[catholicray]

We’re not really using the terms “Black” and “White” with regard to race anymore but rather color. POC, for example, stands for people of color. I think it includes African Americans as well as Native Americans, Asian Americans, and Latino Americans. However, there is also the acronym BIPOC which stands for Blacks, Indigenous, and People of Color. It does get rather confusing. Add to this the fact that some American Indians do not like the term Native Americans. Similarly, Negro is regarded as an anachronism and even an insult, as is colored people. I think Hispanic is still acceptable but Latino is preferred, Latina for women, Latinx even better.

This is one reason why I am not big on PC language.

It’s confusing because it adds an identifier to what is essentially a human being that is different from other identifiers of human beings at the individual level. I’m more than will to adapt to what a Native American would prefer to be identified as providing that it identifies a group rather than an individual. At the individual level there really can be no identifier because we are indeed one in the same human being from one human being to the next individually.

 

[catholicray]

I am not claiming UNIVERSAL White privilege, but based on the history of the United States, there has been White privilege, that is, things Whites don’t have to think about but POC do. I would even add White male privilege from the very beginning of our nation, but male privilege is not at all confined to the U. S.

That’s great but many people (I’ve had direct experience) do not share any sort of acknowledgement of varying levels of white privilege. I’m just trying to be clear but if we agree then we agree.

 

[VonDerTann]

Actually, Ray, I don’t understand what you’re saying, because I don’t think you know what you’re saying.

You can talk about “class” all you want, but since you never define what “class” is, you’re presenting a totally moving target.

All your posts can be distilled to, “the rich have it better.”

We don’t need 20+ posts to figure that out.

As Woody Allen said, “being rich is better than being poor, largely for financial reasons.”

So I don’t see where we’re going at this stage. As the sharks say on “shark tank,” I’m out.

Editing to add: white privilege is a complete myth.

 

[catholicray]

Actually, Ray, I don’t understand what you’re saying, because I don’t think you know what you’re saying.

You can talk about “class” all you want, but since you never define what “class” is, you’re presenting a totally moving target.

All your posts can be distilled to, “the rich have it better.”

We don’t need 20+ posts to figure that out.

As Woody Allen said, “being rich is better than being poor, largely for financial reasons.”

So I don’t see where we’re going at this stage. As the sharks say on “shark tank,” I’m out.

Editing to add: white privilege is a complete myth.

You could basically highlight this response as similar to the same way people respond when you try to explain racism in America to them.

I did define class. Class is a measurement of power to generate wealth versus the influence of wealth to generate justice, liberty, freedom, and peace.

One reason you can not “see” a class system in America is due to the development of politically correct speech. As an example:

If I were to say that I wanted to participate in warfare against some group of people you might get nervous. Yet if I develop my speech a little and instead say I’d like to engage in strategically encouraging said group of people it doesn’t hit your radar nearly as hard and you go about your day. This is politically correct speech.

 

[VonDerTann]

You’ve swallowed a textbook. Your definition is meaningless.

I’m out.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

As I have tried to explain before, the term “White privilege” does NOT mean that Whites are economically advantaged, that they all or mostly live in luxury and don’t have a care in the world. White privilege refers to the things that Whites take for granted, things they don’t even think about or need to think about, such as the questions you asked in your post. But non-Whites do need to think about these things; they cannot afford to take much for granted.

That’s sounds like more of a disadvantage for others than a priveledge.

 

[meltzerboy2]

You might look at it that way. It’s a privilege by default. White privilege doesn’t mean that all Whites have it so good; it only means they don’t have it so bad because there are certain things they don’t have to worry about that POC do have to worry about.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

You might look at it that way. It’s a privilege by default.

One is a more useful way to put it.

 

[catholicray]

One is a more useful way to put it.

I don’t know I think you end up with the same result where poor white people would like their disadvantages from an economic perspective identified as well. The problem is that the situation of racism and white privilege is not black and white.

 

[otjm]

Editing to add: white privilege is a complete myth.

As a subset of that comment, one only needs to look to Asians in the US; some of them might disagree when it was revealed that they were not gaining entry to prestigious universities when they clearly had higher test scores and academics, but were passed over in favor of people of color who had lower scores/academics (but not disqualifyingly lower). And right behind them come the Hispanics; by second generation they may still speak their native language at home, but they speak English better than some Whites. And looking at second languages, North Dakota has German; French in Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire and Louisiana (Cajuns) and the rest is Spanish.