Racism in a Classist America

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catholicray said:
So I’d like to open the conversation here at this point? What are your thoughts?
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I normally sleep through those so-called “diversity trainings” and consider it naive to think that it’s possible to “educate” racism out of people. But I attended one with a really interesting exercise.

We had to line up and take turns drawing a piece of paper. Based on what the paper said, we had to take a place near the back or front of the line depending on where society would “rank” us.

I ended up being a white, lesbian doctor near the front of the line. The exercise would infuriate a lot of CAFers, but I found it interesting. Prejudices are many, but the focus today in media and social media is police brutality against African-Americans because it’s urgent, deadly, and current.
 
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meltzerboy2 said:
You might look at it that way. It’s a privilege by default
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You might want to read Hillbilly Elegy.

As to privilege by default, the liberals have forgotten that Cesar Chavez had less than zero tolerance for illegal immigrants; legal Hispanic immigrants have done well in society - and in fact some of the illegals have done well, although under the possibility of being uprooted and sent back to their country of origin. And we hear very little of Asian immigrants and their generations of success. Are we now to remove them from the label of “people of color” and say they have White Privilege?
 
Pattylt said:
I’ve asked others if they were pulled over and treated this way. None of the whites were, all of the blacks were.

This, to me, was just a straight forward example of a difference in treatment and level of respect shown by police to whites vs. blacks. The blacks even joke that it’s a risk to drive while black.

These are the things that we need to look at and fix. It’s racial profiling, plain and simple and it needs to end.
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Your anecdotes are quite on the mark. There are studies on this. Numerous. I shared them on one thread. Not just profiling, but police are even far more rude/impolite when talking to Black citizens than when they are talking to White ones. When you look at all of it, from every level, like profiling, stopping, searching, arresting, charging, trying, sentencing, it feels overwhelming. I’m always glad to see people like you who are willing to see this because it is NOT easy to see for those who are not targetted. Thank you.
 
VanitasVanitatum said:
That’s sounds like more of a disadvantage for others than a priveledge.
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I agree. I’ve often said I thought using the term “priviledge” creates unnecessary confusion. But Meltzerboy is right in that it’s basically getting treated “the way everyone should be but isn’t.” So you’re both right. You don’t get extra goodies, more like others get extra hurdles.
 
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blackforest said:
Prejudices are many, but the focus today in media and social media is police brutality against African-Americans because it’s urgent, deadly, and current.
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I agree with this. I think a lot of the alleged privilege/ prejudice not involving law enforcement is debatable, for instance the “how many times is a store manager of color” Is turning into “quite a few times” In my experience, and I see a lot of positive portrayals of high-achieving Blacks and other minorities in textbooks, TV shows, movies etc. as well as seeing them in real life.

However, the law enforcement abuses are happening to Black people even if they are Ivy League professors, or lawyers making six figures, or police officers themselves. I have personally heard stories of how they got followed around a store, or put their ID in a Bible on the front seat of their car in case they got pulled over so they wouldn’t have to reach in a pocket for it and get shot. They also fear for their young sons going out. Your average well-off white doctor is not afraid for his white son’s interactions with the police, such as a traffic stop; a well-off Black doctor is.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
privilege/ prejudice not involving law enforcement is debatable,
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Educational funding policies and policies that prevented the accretion of generational wealth through property ownership, like redlining, are others, unfortunately. To me, they, along with the mass incarceration, probably explain a big chunk of problems experienced by African Americans. As I saw the poster @LeafByNiggel say, these things have a compounded, cyclic effect. It’s why people who quip “solutions” like “Just stay in school and don’t have children” do not strike me as being interested in solving problems that affect this community.

As for the movies; I remember right around the time the Black Panther movie came out hearing how in Hollywood, for generations, executives claimed that movies led by Black people or filled with/starring them for the most part weren’t the best commercial investments so that no one would put a big budget behind them; because “people around the world wouldn’t see them.” It was why that movie was such a big deal. It proved this age-old wisdom untrue, since it was not only filled with a mostly Black cast, but was set in Africa too, for a huge chunk and did so much better than expected all around the world; even better than other non-ensemble superhero films. I’ve also heard A LOT about how so-called “Black stars” struggle to find work unless they create low-budget black movies. Will smith and Denzel Washington are by far not the norm for black actors.
 
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catholicray said:
Black and White are purely societal constructs. There is only one human race. I agree with the terms African American or Native American for example in so much as it accurately identifies nationality where it is applied accurately but it should be thoroughly understood that there is no such thing as a white race or black race that is false. There is a human race.
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But when a Black man is pulled over, it’s not because of his ethnicity, it’s because of his skin color.

My privilege is certainly not because of my Irish ethnicity; even my parents could not apply to certain jobs because “no Irish need apply.” But that Irishness was not apparent at a glance, so they didn’t stand out in gatherings for discriminatory treatment, because they looked like everyone else.

It was much easier for them to move “up” in education and income because, for example, their first house had a standard covenant agreement that Blacks could not buy there. Nothing about being German ( people we’d fought a war with in the not-that-distant past) or Irish.

Black people in this country are treated differently because of skin color. White privilege does not mean there are not White people in very real economic difficulty—but that is not exacerbated by their color.
 
JulianN said:
Black people in this country are treated differently because of skin color. White privilege does not mean there are not White people in very real economic difficulty—but that is not exacerbated by their color.
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Thank you. I’ve tried to explain this to others but many feel it downplays the historic struggles of the Irish and Jews. But, even as is happening with White-skinned Latinos now, the fact is, if you’re Black, without “diluting” your appearance over time through marrying Whiter and Whiter, you remain an “other” in an immediate, unhideable sense. That’s what makes it so difficult to integrate. Other migrating people get to “become” White over generations even if the original populations were severely othered, because their appearance does not make them stand out in the later decades.
 
My grandfather always said “Treat people with the respect due to them.” That is why I have friends who are Black, Asian, Mexican, Arab, and White, these include Christians, Muslims, Jews, and Atheists.

I don’t care what color, race, or creed you are, if you act right you will get the respect you are due. I’ve lived in a middle class home, a mobile home, in the projects, in a van (and it was stolen, so I was then homeless) and now live in my own home in a very mixed neighborhood. I went to a private school and a public school. I’d say I’ve led a very diverse life.

So I can say this, and it goes for ALL colors, if you act violent you will never be respected by society. If you wear shirts that say #@$& the police, you will never be respected. If your music degrades others and glorifies what is not good, you will never be respected. If money is your god, you will never be respected. If you abuse your authority, you will never be respected. When these things clash, what is to be expected? Exactly what is taking place.

Things really are a mess. This country needs a coming to Jesus moment, that begins with each individual. Unfortunately with the divisions in politics, classes, and societies, things will only get worse. The media, they seem to love every minute of it, that includes social media. Lord help us all. We really need a Lady of Guadalupe type miracle to bring everyone together.
 
meltzerboy2 said:
Negro is regarded as an anachronism and even an insult, as is colored people. I think Hispanic is still acceptable but Latino is preferred, Latina for women, Latinx even better.
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I get where you’re going here, but.
For the first, better tell the United Negro College Fund, and Negro Leagues Museum. They might want to know.
Second, National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. Yes, better tell them too.
And finally: Calling people from the land area south of the US latinos doesn’t make sense. They do not speak Latin. Same with “Latin America”. “Hispanic” has issues since all of those living may not have had relatives from Spain.
My point being: The PC speech changes so often that no matter what “polite” term you choose, you’re still “wrong”, and chastised for your uncaring attitude. I believe thus is by design to keep folks off balance and further the issue. This is a problem.
Dominus vobiscum
 
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Rubee said:
It’s why people who quip “solutions” like “Just stay in school and don’t have children” do not strike me as being interested in solving problems that affect this community.
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It’s blame-shifting, plain and simple. People suddenly become at fault for the their own racist treatment.
JulianN said:
My privilege is certainly not because of my Irish ethnicity; even my parents could not apply to certain jobs because “no Irish need apply.” But that Irishness was not apparent at a glance, so they didn’t stand out in gatherings for discriminatory treatment, because they looked like everyone else.
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Rubee said:
I’ve tried to explain this to others but many feel it downplays the historic struggles of the Irish and Jews.
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You both bring up an important point. A number of white people correctly point out that they descend from groups treated terribly, including the Irish, Italians, Polish, or any kind of white, indentured servant. The difference is that assimilation has been easier for us and generations before us due to our skin color.
 
otjm said:
As to privilege by default, the liberals have forgotten that Cesar Chavez had less than zero tolerance for illegal immigrants;
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This favorite conservative talking point needs a reminder of historical context. Chavez’s activism against undocumented immigrants began in the late 60s and 70s during the time of Johnson’s Immigration and Nationality Act. This law made it a lot easier for skilled workers with family in the U.S. to emigrate legally. The difference highlights the urgent need for immigration reform, and Chavez’s time is incomparable to the current draconian restrictions of the Trump administration.
 
I wonder if a rich black man can drive a luxury car down the road and not get pulled over by police thinking that he stole it.
 
Twenty some years ago,my husband was driving out of our neighborhood to go golfing.He was driving a car that he only drove in the warmer weather months. As a result it slipped his mind that his registration had expired. He was pulled over by a cop,who then discovered there was a bench warrant out for his arrest due to an unpaid ticket.
As it happens that ticket was in fact paid but never recorded as such by the traffic court. He was then handcuffed with his hands over the hood of his car and subsequently hauled off to jail.I had to gat a bail bondsman to post his bail after he spent t most of Easter Sunday and in a jail cell.
After all was said and done,the error by the county recognized he got no more than an “opps! Our bad!” A very traumatic experience for him to say the least.He was treated like a criminal,for no other reason than the government messed up.
 
He should have filed a law suit against the count (not the officer - he was acting on reasonable belief) for false arrest. They failed in their duty to clear the ticket as paid, and they sourced the warrant.
 
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