Rainbow Sash Movement is happy with our bishop. Calls on the Diocese of Orange

[GloriaPatri4]

**Brown Out **
Conservative Catholics target bishop with blue binder of blasphemy

by Gustavo Arellano

Every week, a group calling itself the Orange County Catholics gathers in a different member’s house and recites the Prayer to St. Michael the Archangel.

“St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in the day of Battle. Be our safeguard against the wickedness and snares of the Devil,” they whisper while kneeling on the floor.

They then speak about the sinner to whom they direct the 19th-century prayer: Orange Diocese Bishop Tod D. Brown, a man whom one former Catholic-school teacher claims is “duped by the Devil.”

Each Orange County Catholic (OCC) member has a personal beef with Brown. Michael and Susan Teissere of Long Beach complain Brown ignored them two years ago when they pleaded with the bishop to defrock Father Rod Stephens, Michael’s cousin, for supposedly being gay. One woman frowns at Brown’s infamous Jan. 18 nailing of his “Covenant with the Faithful” outside the doors of Orange’s Holy Family Cathedral that pledged diocesan transparency in sex-abuse cases. “Since when has it been faithful to emulate Martin Luther?” she scoffs. And almost everyone is uncomfortable that Brown serves on a national ecumenical and interreligious-affairs council. “And he aligns himself with moderate denominations, not the Jerry Falwells or Southern Baptists!” gasps another lady.

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ocweekly.com/ink/04/43/news-arellano2.php

 

[contemplative]

AlanFromWichita:

Alan

Around and around and around you go Alan. Where you stop nobody knows. I don’t believe you know either.

 

[contemplative]

contemplative:

Around and around and around you go Alan. Where you stop nobody knows. I don’t believe you know either.

Furthermore…all of your ramblings sound more like material for this nasty website for ex-Catholics. REAL Catholic parents need positive support…not hurdles.

In addition to required letters of affirmation supporting the Catholic Church parents might be required to fulfill certain criteria in order to send their children to a Catholic school. Guess what that criteria might be?

 

[AlanFromWichita]

contemplative:

Furthermore…all of your ramblings sound more like material for this nasty website for ex-Catholics. REAL Catholic parents need positive support…not hurdles.

In addition to required letters of affirmation supporting the Catholic Church parents might be required to fulfill certain criteria in order to send their children to a Catholic school. Guess what that criteria might be?

I got a PM from a person who knew some specific details about the case that I didn’t know because I’m not there.

I’m simply responding to the facts presented in this thread.

You say “you have to draw the line somewhere.” Well, that is relativistic absolutism. In other words, relativism and subjectivity design to sound like the opposite.

Obviously if you “have to draw the line” that means there is no natural line to observe or be discovered. Therefore, you are creating an artificial division that you have “drawn.”

It sounds hard-nosed and very tempting to the worldly mind, and frankly at some point you have to talk about limited resources.

I will stop defending innocent children from being shunned or punished when you and others quit shunning or punishing them (or telling them they aren’t “good enough” to be around you own precious children) for things they have no control over.

I’m not sure why you decided to take your argument into the personal attack mode, but it indicates to me that you have nothing substantial to say in your behalf. There is no absolute objective measure of what children “deserve” to go to school based on their parents’ sinfulness, so any you make up are arbitrary and divisive. You consider just consider whether you are wrong. I do it all the time. You might try it yourself; it can be very enlightening.

Alan

 

[AlanFromWichita]

contemplative:

Furthermore…all of your ramblings sound more like material for this nasty website for ex-Catholics. REAL Catholic parents need positive support…not hurdles.

In addition to required letters of affirmation supporting the Catholic Church parents might be required to fulfill certain criteria in order to send their children to a Catholic school. Guess what that criteria might be?

While looking for additional responses on this thread, I saw that you apparently think I am unaware of the needs of REAL Catholic parents.

Two of my sons just graduated from 13 and 12 years, respectively (one skipped fifth grade) of Catholic school with honors, my daughter is in sophomore year in Catholic high school, having been sought out specifically by the school for being the only one in our diocese to win the Monsignor somebody-or-other award as well as one signed by the President of the United States when she was promoted from eighth grade.

The other three are in grade school, grades 8, 4, and 2. Two years ago we home schooled them but the school begged us to get them back in because they were such a positive influence on the school and other kids, and because my kids always helped the religion bowl win soundly over other schools.

How “real” a Catholic parent are you? Do you want to have a competition? I’ll put my kids up against yours in mathematics, science, history, religious knowledge, or a psychological profile of their overall happiness and state of mind, and their abilities to help other children who have less than ideal situations at home or with their school work.

Let’s get it on. How do you determine that my opinion doesn’t count compared to those of “real” Catholic parents? If you are a “real” Catholic parent and I’m not, than your kids should be able to beat the pants off mine in matters religious, or they should be much better adjusted than mine for their age.

If you don’t want to judge by competition between our kids, then on what basis are you using the divisive, inaccurate term “real” parents?

Oh, and in case I haven’t mentioned this several times before, I was president of the Home and School association for almost eight years. I was installed specifically because there were political battles between them, the school administration, and the parish council. Under my legacy, it once again became a well attended and appreciated organization, and I got to hear many stories from Catholics about their experiences with school officials both good and bad. Those were also “real” Catholic parents as far as I could tell.

It always amazed me how the people at the parish council with the strongest opinions about being strict about letting children in the school, were those who had no children in the school or they had already graduated. Oh yeah, did I mention I was also the VP of the parish council? I do not speak of these things in a vacuum or out of strict emotion. Emotionally, though, I want to know how I’m not sympathetic to the thoughts of “real” Catholic parents.

As to your question about when will it stop, I suspect this discussion is winding up soon. If all there is on your side are ad hominem attacks then either somebody will get this thread on track, or it will die or get killed.

Alan

 

[contemplative]

My diocese is overrun by gay priests. It is among the worst for ordaining new priests. We have no new & young priests to speak of and it isn’t getting better like in some other dioceses. It is getting worse. Churches and Catholic schools are shutting down. There was a schism a few years back and now more lay women and religious women are leading parishes which are dwindling in size as a result. Believe me … a diocese overrun by a predominately homosexual priesthood that caters to gayness is not a good situation. It leads to nothing more than destruction. Don’t ask me to back this info here. A gay priesthood is not what this thread is about but I can say for certain there is a correlation between the two.

If the Catholic Church opens the doors to gay couples with children and believe you and me gay couples will be first in line at the door of Catholic schools…. what do you think will happen to Catholic schools? I will tell you……Catholic schools will shut down because they will no longer afford to operate. Why? Catholic parents will not send their children to school with gay families. I would not and I am certain many others wouldn’t either.

So now Alan where are you? Sometimes dear Alan you must take a hard line. Will your decision get you to heaven and mine to hell? I suppose. That is what you are saying.

I stand for protecting the family here and now.

You are dreaming when you think your defense of ‘innocent children’ is going to gain you merits in heaven. I suppose you will keep on dreaming if it makes you feel better.

 

[Robert_Bay]

This thread has degraded into personal attacks. This thread is now closed