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ralphy
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Abraham was saved by faith in God , looking forward to the coming of Christ. Ralph
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ralphy
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What did you find in the rest of Romans that we may discuss? Ralph
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ralphy
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Saved means to me, that if I should die right now I would go home to heaven instantly. Salvation means that ALL my sins are paid for by the blood of Christ on Calvary, how greatful I am for that. PTL Ralph
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Shannon9791
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Was Abraham saved only by his faith?
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cazayoux
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benedicta00
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absolutely! and if you disbelieve you can’t fall out of grace and lose salvation through sin, again I ask, why confess your sins? What’s the point?
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CentralFLJames
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But being saved means we must stay near our rescuer and follow him along safe paths until we get all the way back and enter into the promised land. So do you imagine if we follow Jesus part away then suddenly see what we imagine are greener-pastures (that cute lil lamb that all the goats are swooning over) and run away and get lost again that we are still in good grace?
Did not Jesus say “follow me”? Does that not mean we have to use our own two legs to walk the walk all the way? Or do you know of a secret “beam me up Jesus” OSAS verse somewhere?
James
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twb1621
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Matthew CH 24; 10 And then many will be led into sin (sin that is committed after salvation through crucifixion by those who accepted God); they will betray and hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and deceive many; 12 and because of the increase of evildoing, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who perseveres (the sinner does not persevere) to the end will be saved.
MARK CH 4; 13
14 “The sower sows the word. 15 These are the ones on the path where the word is sown. As soon as they hear, Satan comes at once and takes away the word sown in them. 16 And these are the ones sown on rocky ground who, when they hear the word, receive it at once with joy. 17 But they have no root; they last only for a time. Then when tribulation or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 18 Those sown among thorns are another sort. They are the people who hear the word, 19 but worldly anxiety, the lure of riches, and the craving for other things intrude and choke the word, and it bears no fruit. 20 But those sown on rich soil are the ones who hear the word and accept it and bear fruit thirty and sixty and a hundredfold." This refers to those who accept God and then later return to sin one way or another. (Those fallen to sin again and Lost salvation.)
LUKE CH 8; 12 Those on the path are the ones who have heard, but the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts that they may not believe and be saved. 13 Those on rocky ground are the ones who, when they hear, receive the word with joy, but they have no root; they believe only for a time and fall away in time of trial.
ROMANS CH8; 15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you received a spirit of adoption, through which we cry, “Abba, 3 Father!” 16 The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, **if only we suffer with him so that we may also be glorified with him. **
1 Corinthians CH10; 1 1 I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea, 2 and all of them were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 All ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they drank from a spiritual rock that followed them, 2 and the rock was the Christ. 5 Yet God was not pleased with most of them, for they were struck down in the desert. 63 These things happened as examples for us, so that we might not desire evil things, as they did. 7 And do not become idolaters, as some of them did, as it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to revel.” 8 Let us not indulge in immorality as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell within a single day. 9 Let us not test Christ 4 as some of them did, and suffered death by serpents. 10 Do not grumble as some of them did, and suffered death by the destroyer. 11 These things happened to them as an example, and they have been written down as a warning to us, upon whom the end of the ages has come. 5**12 Therefore, whoever thinks he is standing secure should take care not to fall. **
“if I should die right now I would go home to heaven instantly. Salvation means that ALL my sins are paid for by the blood of Christ on Calvary, how greatful I am for that.”
OSAS and statements such as this are a defiant test of Christ.
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ralphy
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You will find scripture to qualify this statement in Rom:4:1-6. Ralph
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ralphy
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We are directed by the Holy Spirit, rely on Him to guide and lead us in the way we should go. Ra;phBut being saved means we must stay near our rescuer and follow him along safe paths until we get all the way back and enter into the promised land. So do you imagine if we follow Jesus part away then suddenly see what we imagine are greener-pastures (that cute lil lamb that all the goats are swooning over) and run away and get lost again that we are still in good grace?
Did not Jesus say “follow me”? Does that not mean we have to use our own two legs to walk the walk all the way? Or do you know of a secret “beam me up Jesus” OSAS verse somewhere?
James
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CentralFLJames
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Indeed. This is no doubt why you are here at CAF Ralph. The Holy Spirit has lead you to all truth and He knows that Catholics can help you get more centered on the proper path to attain to the Promised Land. He wants you to get back on the path and out of the tare fields carelessly seeded 500 years ago by careless men; well meaning men who were deceived into listening to mere human precepts that have led many to their destruction.
It’s time to come into the fullness of Christ Ralphy and to become enlightened by true apostolic teaching. God has much grace to give you that can not be had outside of His Church – the Catholic Church.
James
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ralphy
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You are mistaken my friend, verse 20 refers to those who are saved, they are in good soil planted in Christ through “the word of God” and are producing good fruit. There is no reference to them turning away from the Lord. We are kept by the power of God, and nothing can take us out of His hand. Ralph
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SteveGC
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cazayoux
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I agree that if you are ‘in Christ’ not even death can separate you.
However, by sinning you are no longer ‘in Christ’.
Rom 8
[1] There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
[2] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death.
[3] For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do: sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,
[4] in order that the just requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
[5] For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.
[6] To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.
[7] For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, indeed it cannot;
[8] and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
[9] But you are not in the flesh, you are in the Spirit, ***if ***in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Any one who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
[10] But ***if ***Christ is in you, although your bodies are dead because of sin, your spirits are alive because of righteousness.
[11] ***If ***the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit which dwells in you.
[12] So then, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh –
[13] for ***if ***you live according to the flesh you will die, but ***if ***by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live.
[14] For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
[15] For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the spirit of sonship. When we cry, “Abba! Father!”
[16] it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
[17] and ***if ***children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.
[18] I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.
[19] For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God;
[20] for the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will but by the will of him who subjected it in hope;
[21] because the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and obtain the glorious liberty of the children of God.
[22] We know that the whole creation has been groaning in travail together until now;
[23] and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
[24] For in this ***hope ***we were saved. Now ***hope ***that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees?
[25] But ***if ***we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.
[26] Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with sighs too deep for words.
[27] And he who searches the hearts of men knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
[28] We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose.
[29] For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren.
[30] And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified.
[31] What then shall we say to this? If God is for us, who is against us?
[32] He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, will he not also give us all things with him?
[33] Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies;
[34] who is to condemn? Is it Christ Jesus, who died, yes, who was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who indeed intercedes for us?
[35] Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
[36] As it is written, “For thy sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”
[37] No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
[38] For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
[39] nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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ralphy
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You must think that I am more powerful than God, right?
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ralphy
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We do sin after we are saved. But I am not condemed as per the first verse you wrote in your email. Ralph
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twb1621
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You are sadly yet defiantly wrong my wayward brother and you should read it repeatedly until you get it correctly. It speaks of those who were Baptized and accepted as chosen with Moses in both the OT and then those in the NT. It speaks to those who are Baptized in the Holy Spirit and warns them of what could be and what not to become. You can not say any longer you didn’t have the opportunity to learn the truth.
1 Corinthians CH10; 1 1 I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea, 2 and all of them were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 All ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they drank from a spiritual rock that followed them, 2 and the rock was the Christ. 5 Yet God was not pleased with most of them, for they were struck down in the desert. 63 These things happened as examples for us, so that we might not desire evil things, as they did. 7 And do not become idolaters, as some of them did, as it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to revel.” 8 Let us not indulge in immorality as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell within a single day. 9 Let us not test Christ 4 as some of them did, and suffered death by serpents. 10 Do not grumble as some of them did, and suffered death by the destroyer. 11 These things happened to them as an example, and they have been written down as a warning to us, upon whom the end of the ages has come. 5**12 Therefore, whoever thinks he is standing secure should take care not to fall. **
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SteveGC
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Not at all.
But God holds you in His grasp in an infinitely strong, yet infinitely gentle way.
So strong that if someone persecutes you, and kills you, their victory over your physical life cannot penetrate the protective grasp God has on your spiritual life. It is forever secure. Satan himself, if he wanted to pluck you out (which he does), has no power to do so over the grasp of God. This is the meaning of Jn 10:28 and Rom 8:38-9
Yet, so gentle is God’s grasp, that He does not entrap you in His clutch to the point where you cannot remove yourself. This is because He knows that True Love is based on FREE will. True Love cannot exist for us unless we are forever free to choose or reject Him until the end of our earthly lives. The verses you cite to support OSAS do NOT remotely suggest that we OURSELVES are incapable of removing ourselves from His grasp. Read them again, carefully. You can jump ralph. You just can’t be plucked.
“plucked” is not an action someone takes on themselves…it’s always an act of someone else upon you.
God Bless
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ralphy
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Take a look at John 10:25-30 and also Rom 8:31-39. Jesus is talking about “belivers”, those who are saved. Ralph
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Howie01
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Moses thought he was standing secure, and he did not take care not to fall:** Deuteronomy 32:48-52
48 The Lord spoke to Moses that very same day, saying,
49 “Go up to this mountain of the Abarim, Mount Nebo, which is in the land of Moab opposite Jericho, and look at the land of Canaan, which I am giving to the sons of Israel for a possession.
50 “Then die on the mountain where you ascend, and be gathered to your people, as Aaron your brother died on Mount Hor and was gathered to his people,
51 because you broke faith with Me in the midst of the sons of Israel at the waters of Meribah-kadesh, in the wilderness of Zin, because you did not treat Me as holy in the midst of the sons of Israel.
52 “For you shall see the land at a distance, but you shall not go there, into the land which I am giving the sons of Israel.”**Was Moses’ destruction eternal, or temporal?
Did God let Moses go when Moses “broke faith” with God?
Or did Moses, despite of having broken faith with God, obtain that inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and that will not fade away, reserved in heaven for him, who is protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time (1 Pet 1:4-5)???
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