Ralphy's Questions for Catholics

[ralphy]

Moses thought he was standing secure, and he did not take care not to fall:** Deuteronomy 32:48-52**

48 The Lord spoke to Moses that very same day, saying,

49 “Go up to this mountain of the Abarim, Mount Nebo, which is in the land of Moab opposite Jericho, and look at the land of Canaan, which I am giving to the sons of Israel for a possession.

50 “Then die on the mountain where you ascend, and be gathered to your people, as Aaron your brother died on Mount Hor and was gathered to his people,

51 because you broke faith with Me in the midst of the sons of Israel at the waters of Meribah-kadesh, in the wilderness of Zin, because you did not treat Me as holy in the midst of the sons of Israel.

52 “For you shall see the land at a distance, but you shall not go there, into the land which I am giving the sons of Israel.”Was Moses’ destruction eternal, or temporal?

Did God let Moses go when Moses “broke faith” with God?

Or did Moses, despite of having broken faith with God, obtain that inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and that will not fade away, reserved in heaven for him, who is protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time (1 Pet 1:4-5)???

The Holy Spirit did not fall on everyone in the OT, only certain people, basically leaders, as God determined. As for Moses destination, you will have to talk to God about that. Today, those who are saved recieve the Holy Spirit at the time of salvation and are sealed until the day of redemption. Ralph

 

[ralphy]

Indeed. This is no doubt why you are here at CAF Ralph. The Holy Spirit has lead you to all truth and He knows that Catholics can help you get more centered on the proper path to attain to the Promised Land. He wants you to get back on the path and out of the tare fields carelessly seeded 500 years ago by careless men; well meaning men who were deceived into listening to mere human precepts that have led many to their destruction.

It’s time to come into the fullness of Christ Ralphy and to become enlightened by true apostolic teaching. God has much grace to give you that can not be had outside of His Church – the Catholic Church.

James

The more I correspond with Roman catholics on the internet, the more I am convinced that they are “preaching” another gospel, a gospel of tradition and hierarchy. That to me is a very sad thing. Ralph

 

[CentralFLJames]

We do sin after we are saved. But I am not condemed as per the first verse you wrote in your email. Ralph

So you have bought into the extreme OSAS belief that Southern Baptists and other fundamentalist groups believe that once one is “saved” that sin no longer has any meaning and even if somone does something that might look like sin (e.g. fornication, adultery, abortion etc.) that its not really sin since you are covered in the blood of Christ?

Are you going to finally admit to what you really believe in Ralph? Is this an accurate assessment of your faith and belief about sin?

Now that you imagine yourself “saved” are you exempt from sin Ralphy? Do you get a get-out-of-jail free card from sin?

James

 

[ralphy]

So you have bought into the extreme OSAS belief that Southern Baptists and other fundamentalist groups believe that once one is “saved” that sin no longer has any meaning and even if somone does something that might look like sin (e.g. fornication, adultery, abortion etc.) that its not really sin since you are covered in the blood of Christ?

Are you going to finally admit to what you really believe in Ralph? Is this an accurate assessment of your faith and belief about sin?

Now that you imagine yourself “saved” are you exempt from sin Ralphy? Do you get a get-out-of-jail free card from sin?

James

If we deliberately sin, you may be sure that you will be chastised by God. We can confess any sin to God. If we continue in sin, He may even lay you aside or take you out of this world altogether.Sin is a very serious thing. Hitler could have been saved if he had surrendered his life to Christ befor he died, who knows, maybe he did. Ralph

 

[CentralFLJames]

The more I correspond with Roman catholics on the internet, the more I am convinced that they are “preaching” another gospel, a gospel of tradition and hierarchy. That to me is a very sad thing. Ralph

We seem to have bumped the record back to the original sound track again here Ralphy. You seem to be in an endless loop that goes like this:

1. We are all judged by the bible
2. I am saved since I am coverd in Christ’s blood
3. God’s word is all I need
4. Catholics make me sad since you teach a different gospel than what I think Christ taught.
5. Go back to #1 and repeat endlessly

Are you a real person or a spam-bot on a PC that is running a canned pearl-script over and over? This is ridiculous…

James

 

[CentralFLJames]

If we deliberately sin, you may be sure that you will be chastised by God. We can confess any sin to God. If we continue in sin, He may even lay you aside or take you out of this world altogether.Sin is a very serious thing. Hitler could have been saved if he had surrendered his life to Christ befor he died, who knows, maybe he did. Ralph

So, if you already did that first “sinners prayer” and covered yourself in Christ’s blood and you again sin: **do you have to get “saved again” and re-confess your sins with a new “sinner-prayer”? ****Why confess **if you are already saved ralphy?

Pardon me but it looks to me like you are speaking with forked tounge or like you are speaking out of both sides of your mouth. Can you elaborate???

James

 

[twb1621]

Moses thought he was standing secure, and he did not take care not to fall:
Deuteronomy 32:48-52

**48 The Lord spoke to Moses that very same day, saying, **

**49 “Go up to this mountain of the Abarim, Mount Nebo, which is in the land of Moab opposite Jericho, and look at the land of Canaan, which I am giving to the sons of Israel for a possession. **

50 “Then die on the mountain where you ascend, and be gathered to your people, as Aaron your brother died on Mount Hor and was gathered to his people,

51 because you broke faith with Me in the midst of the sons of Israel at the waters of Meribah-kadesh, in the wilderness of Zin, because you did not treat Me as holy in the midst of the sons of Israel.

52 “For you shall see the land at a distance, but you shall not go there, into the land which I am giving the sons of Israel.”
Was Moses’ destruction eternal, or temporal?

Did God let Moses go when Moses “broke faith” with God?

Or did Moses, despite of having broken faith with God, obtain that inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and that will not fade away, reserved in heaven for him, who is protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time (1 Pet 1:4-5)???

This is the posted verses I referred to;
1 Corinthians CH10; 1 1 I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea, 2 and all of them were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 All ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they drank from a spiritual rock that followed them, 2 and the rock was the Christ. 5 Yet God was not pleased with most of them, for they were struck down in the desert. 63 These things happened as examples for us, so that we might not desire evil things, as they did. 7 And do not become idolaters, as some of them did, as it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to revel.” 8 Let us not indulge in immorality as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell within a single day. 9 Let us not test Christ 4 as some of them did, and suffered death by serpents. 10 Do not grumble as some of them did, and suffered death by the destroyer. 11 These things happened to them as an example, and they have been written down as a warning to us, upon whom the end of the ages has come. 5**12 Therefore, whoever thinks he is standing secure should take care not to fall. **

**Now if you read that with reasonable attention, you will see Paul is not making reference specific to Moses but to the israelites and the verse specifies “…God was not pleased with MOST of them”. So why would you change the subject to deal specifically with Moses himself? **

 

[Howie01]

twb1621:

Now if you read that with reasonable attention, you will see Paul is not making reference specific to Moses but to the israelites. So why would you change the subject to deal specifically with Moses himaelf?

Is not Moses an Israelite?

If not, why not?

If so, why do you complain about what I said?

 

[twb1621]

Is not Moses an Israelite?

If not, why not?

If so, why do you complain about what I said?

Howie01, Moses of course is an Israelite but not the sole one subject to the chapter you referenced nor was the verse I referenced specific to Moses. My point is Moses is not the subject of the verses, the entire nation of the chosen people are. the three lines you referred to proclaimed God’s displeasure with Moses for His failure to make obvious God’s divinity and sanctity among the Israelites, which resulted from their sinful behavior as spoken of throughout the Chapter.

 

[SteveGC]

If we (believers) deliberately sin, you** (a believer)** may be sure that you will be chastised by God. We (believers) can confess any sin to God. If we** (believers) continue in sin, He may even lay you (a believer) aside or take you (a believer)** out of this world altogether.Sin is a very serious thing. Hitler could have been saved if he had surrendered his life to Christ befor he died, who knows, maybe he did. Ralph

Would it be fair to reword your post as I have above, ralph? My rewritten words are in bold.

If so, does this not refute OSAS? For you suggest that sin is a “very serious thing”, and suggest that perpetual sinners will not be saved. But the sinners you seem to be referring to are professed believers (except for your reference to Hitler…and you’re right…who knows what ultimately happened to him).

Or are you talking about non-believers in the “we” and “you” references?

 

[sodak]

You must think that I am more powerful than God, right?

Trust me, no one on these forums, or reading this thread, will ever make THAT mistake…

The Holy Spirit did not fall on everyone in the OT, only certain people, basically leaders, as God determined. As for Moses destination, you will have to talk to God about that. Today, those who are saved recieve the Holy Spirit at the time of salvation and are sealed until the day of redemption. Ralph

Yeah. Right…

 

[paul_c]

The more I correspond with Roman catholics on the internet, the more I am convinced that they are “preaching” another gospel, a gospel of tradition and hierarchy. That to me is a very sad thing. Ralph

Ralph, this is not new news to you. According to your correspondence here, you left the true Gospel in 1977 at the age of 43 in search of one that better fit you own view of salvation and eternity. This you did of your own free will. And you are right, to abandon the Truth for something that feels better is a very sad thing. The only way you will feel better about it is to return to the truth that can be found in the Catholic Church. That is the reason you are here. Be open to it. God will not force you to be saved. You have to want to be in his love of your own will.

 

[fbl9]

Would it be fair to reword your post as I have above, ralph? My rewritten words are in bold.

If so, does this not refute OSAS? For you suggest that sin is a “very serious thing”, and suggest that perpetual sinners will not be saved. But the sinners you seem to be referring to are professed believers (except for your reference to Hitler…and you’re right…who knows what ultimately happened to him).

Or are you talking about non-believers in the “we” and “you” references?

Of all the nonsense i once beleived; i never beleived osas…nor could i believe in total assurance of salvation; to me assurance of salvation in just a different wrapper for osas.

Ralphy or any one else(non catholic),some protestants beleive sin is sin,there is no degree or seriousness of sin,those that believe in no degree of sin disagree with the cathloic teaching of venial and mortal sin.Do you agree with the catholic teaching in reagrards to the church’s teaching on venial and mortal sins? Ralphy seems to in a kinda sorta way.

 

[Shannon9791]

You will find scripture to qualify this statement in Rom:4:1-6. Ralph

But didn’t Abraham have to “do” something to prove his faith? I asked you if Abraham was saved only by faith. I’d also like you to explain how Abraham was saved if he didn’t have scriptures.

 

[cazayoux]

Ralph, this is not new news to you. According to your correspondence here, you left the true Gospel in 1977 at the age of 43 in search of one that better fit you own view of salvation and eternity. This you did of your own free will. And you are right, to abandon the Truth for something that feels better is a very sad thing. The only way you will feel better about it is to return to the truth that can be found in the Catholic Church. That is the reason you are here. Be open to it. God will not force you to be saved. You have to want to be in his love of your own will.

… it’s obvious to us here that have been speaking with Ralphy, that he has not read scripture. He merely posts citations. He never discusses the context. He doesn’t have scripture, only a list of citations.
Time for Ralphy to put away his prejudice and READ SCRIPTURE, not just proof texts out of context.

michel

 

[twb1621]

The more I correspond with Roman catholics on the internet, the more I am convinced that they are “preaching” another gospel, a gospel of tradition and hierarchy. That to me is a very sad thing. Ralph

Lets think about this statement Raplh. You claim a faith (Christianity) and a reference source for that faith (the Holy bible) both of which historically come from Catholicism but you want to practice it a different more convenient way and under different beliefs than the source. For what you claim, you better believe you are preaching another gospel than we are and in fact another gospel than that of Christ’s teachings.

 

[AwGusTeen]

Can you show me where this traditional “laying on of hands”,etc, was carried out after the apostles left the earth,(other than the Roman catholic church teaching). Show me something other that heresay. I have seen “laying on of hands” in our church to ordain a minister, but it did not come all the way up the lines from the apostles, and there is no power received from this ordination except to preach the word of God as directed by the Holy Spirit. Ralph

Ralphy:
You’ve stated numerous times that if it’s not in the bible, it must be another gospel. So, using your own position, if the “laying on of hands” for ordination after the apostles left the earth is not in the bible, then why is your church doing it?

 

[benedicta00]

If we deliberately sin, you may be sure that you will be chastised by God. We can confess any sin to God. If we continue in sin, He may even lay you aside or take you out of this world altogether.Sin is a very serious thing. Hitler could have been saved if he had surrendered his life to Christ befor he died, who knows, maybe he did. Ralph

So God hog ties us and takes us to heaven anyway, eh?

Is there sin in heaven ralphy?

if a person willfully of his own free will chooses sin over and over, unto death why would he *want *to go to heaven where no sin exists? does God force us there for Christ’s sake?

Sin is a total rejection of God and His salvation, no? You disagree?

But if you are referring to sins of weakness and not intentional willful sin that is nothing more then rejection of grace, and that person *does *profess faith in Christ for the times they fail through weakness… not intent, then i agree, that person is saved “as though by fire.”

So this brings me back to my original question that it looks as if you refuse to answer it… why confess your sins at all if you are ‘saved’?

It seems to me intentional mortal sin (willfully rejection of God) would require some sort of confession. You disagree? becuase we have chosen to forfeit our salvation through willful sin.

 

[ralphy]

… it’s obvious to us here that have been speaking with Ralphy, that he has not read scripture. He merely posts citations. He never discusses the context. He doesn’t have scripture, only a list of citations.
Time for Ralphy to put away his prejudice and READ SCRIPTURE, not just proof texts out of context.

michel

First of all, I am in the catholic church, I am just not in the "Roman"catholic church. I am a born again christian and if I had stayed in the “Roman” catholic church I never would have been saved, as I was never taught how to be saved, only how to be a Roman cathoilc. Now I can follow the Bible and know where I am going and doing, guided by the Holy Spirit. Ralph

 

[Tomster]

First of all, I am in the catholic church, I am just not in the "Roman"catholic church. I am a born again christian and if I had stayed in the “Roman” catholic church I never would have been saved, as I was never taught how to be saved, only how to be a Roman cathoilc. Now I can follow the Bible and know where I am going and doing, guided by the Holy Spirit. Ralph

And around and around we go.