I agree with you, lets start here. The Cath.church teaches: Mary was preserved from all stain of original sin from the first instant of her conception. God says: Mary, a decendant of Adam,was born in sin. (Psalm 51:5; Romans 5:12. Ralph
Thanks. This is a particularly interesting one. So lets start by looking at your scripture citations:
Psalm 51
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned.
So, these are interesting. Psalm 51:1 says this is a “psalm of David: when Nathan the prophet came unto him, after he had gone in to Bath-sheba.” It looks like this is written by David lamenting about his sins. Note the “I” in the verse you quote. Now while this may directly refer to David, its useful for us to acknowledge similar concerns when we sin ourselves. As David said, “Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.” We want to be clean and we depend on God to cleanse us.
Catholics believe Mary was kept clean by God by a singular act of grace. Keeping his mother as a clean vessel was fitting and in keeping with the fulfillment of they Old Testament type of the Ark of the Covenant. We believe that Mary is the New Eve and the Ark of the New Covenant. This is not explicit in the Bible. Most of the support is in the early writings of the Church.
In Romans 15:12 you have a problem with saying there is an impossibility for any man (or woman) to have not sinned. If this is the case then either Jesus was not a man or this does not apply in the way you think. All of us would agree that this applies to most everyone but there must be at least one exception.
As in Romans 15:19 “For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.” Again, we believe Mary is a New Eve (and as first fruits of the Church in her splendor) corresponding to the New Adam of Christ. So in her obedience, her yes to God, we believe she also participated in a complementary way to Christ’s definitive obedience to the Father.
And in Romans 15:21 “so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” Mary is a sign of our ultimate end glorified and reigning through rightousness in eternal life with Jesus. She has no gifts he did not give her, no honor he did not bestow. She is our races greatest and singular honor, the handiwork of the Father and the beloved mother of the Son.
Did I miss something or do you think I’ve misinterpreted something or do you have a direct scriptural reference to help me understand your position better? If so, I’d love to look it over. I promise, I’ve looked and looked. I just don’t see anything that would discount the Catholic interpretation without taking the words out of context. I know you would not lead me into error so please help me see things your way.
Also, just a quote isn’t as helpful as your interpretation. How can I know what you believe if you don’t tell me. It’s not like the words will interpret themselves.
jm,in saying this you are on very thin ice.cause we really can not judge the unregenerated pagan,unless they have had the opportunity to first hear the good news…what of all the souls born after Christ that yet did not hear the good news of our saviour?are they to be condemended cause they had not the opportunity to hear the good news?From the Gospel written by St.John9;41"Jesus said to them,“if you were blind you would not have sin.But now that you say ‘we see’ your sin remains”…Even th good of the past(those before)Christ were not in hell but in the land of the dead awaiting His birth,so that when He came to them after His death they would recieve the good news.And be judged after that.
