Rand Paul: Without change, GOP will "not win again in my lifetime"

[ishii]

I just made my point. Thank you.

Wonderful. Now can you address my points? And please respond with substance. We have heard your talking points already.

Ishii

 

[NormW]

It seems like many people have a party who’s side they are firmly on. I’m curious of views about what area your own party is lacking in.

 

[ishii]

It seems like many people have a party who’s side they are firmly on. I’m curious of views about what area your own party is lacking in.

Is this addresses to anyone in particular?

 

[NormW]

I used to be a “one issue voter”. I couldn’t support any Democrats (was one myself) when abortion became the only thing the party stood for. But now I’m a “three issue voter”. I oppose the Democrat party’s devotion to abortion, it’s profanation of marriage and its oppression of the Church.

The Church never tells people who to vote for, but the moral teachings of the Church make it impossible to support someone like Obama. Those who support him and like minded politicians are just as guilty of the deaths of millions of children as the “doctor” who holds the knife.

This seems like an unproductive assertion. Connecting our brothers and sisters in Christ to the death of children killed by abortion because of a vote is not the way to go about this issue.

 

[NormW]

Is this addresses to anyone in particular?

Just anyone who feels like answering. I just think too often we get to talking about politics and it is a list of things the other group is doing wrong without acknowledging problems with our own group.

Peace

 

[JimG]

Just anyone who feels like answering. I just think too often we get to talking about politics and it is a list of things the other group is doing wrong without acknowledging problems with our own group.

Peace

For myself, I don’t particularly judge candidates by party. I was a Democrat my entire life, sort of a Truman-Hubert Humphrey-JFK kind of Democrat. But once the party embraced abortion so wholeheartedly, I found few Dem candidates I could vote for. Now it is embracing same sex ‘marriage’ which will further the decline of marriage and family. I can’t support that, nor can I support government actions requiring Catholics to forfeit their beliefs or be fined. Nor can I support the killing of the unborn.

I used to find little difference between the parties. As between, for example Adlai Stevenson and Dwight Eisenhower, differences were few though Ike’s tremendous popularity could not be overcome.

Now, unfortunately, there are a lot of differences, and social issues are deemed to be divisive, although it is such things as decline of the family which lead ultimately to decline of the nation.

 

[SuperLuigi]

-The GOP is simply ill-suited to take any kind of stance on gay issues. Everyone is sick of dealing with it on both sides of the fence. My strategy would be to throw it to the states. They are going to do what they want anyway, and this issue has been beaten to death.

That’s the pro-constitutional argument on most issues. However, the left-wing loyalists always whine about equality and fairness and big oppressive government is the only way.

-Pro Life. The GOP IS SUITED to take on this issue. Truly this is the most important moral issue anyway.

-Contraception - excuse me, but elective surgeries aren’t covered by most insurance companies, and contraception is as about as elective as it gets.

-KEEP the automatic budget cuts in place, the ones that were never supposed to happen.
-No more bailouts of any kind. Not ever. I don’t care who it is.

You sure you’re not a conservative?

 

[SuperLuigi]

Just anyone who feels like answering. I just think too often we get to talking about politics and it is a list of things the other group is doing wrong without acknowledging problems with our own group.

Peace

Well, given that over 90% of the media helps the left, the GOP mistakes are always under a microscope, so it’s always good if the democrats and their errors are exposed.

A good start would be Benghazi, as well as the feelings of certain sections of their base on issues such as climate change, the Keystone Pipeline and so-called gay “marriage”.

 

[Mickey_Finn]

Is this addressed to anyone in particular?

No Ishii, just Republicans.

 

[Skadi]

It seems like many people have a party who’s side they are firmly on. I’m curious of views about what area your own party is lacking in.

I whole heartedly agree, your either in the democrat tribe or the republican tribe. If your an independent your am idiot and if your in the other your plain evil, and the party’s themselves only perpetuate this. It’s terrible.

 

[Mickey_Finn]

That’s the pro-constitutional argument on most issues. However, the left-wing loyalists always whine about equality and fairness and big oppressive government is the only way.

You sure you’re not a conservative?

No to take the side of “Gay” anything. Federal control is the surest way to ensure even application of anything. Especially rights, laws, and other key issues.

ATB

 

[Ridgerunner]

This seems like an unproductive assertion. Connecting our brothers and sisters in Christ to the death of children killed by abortion because of a vote is not the way to go about this issue.

Unproductive it may be.

My purpose in telling the truth; that one’s support of abortion-promoters, is promotion of abortion itself, is simply to get people to re-examine their thinking about such things. One assumes that many do not make this connection, as obvious as it truly is, because they are mightily encouraged by the abortion-supporters to engage in diffuse thinking and rationalizations.

I cannot, and do not purport to judge the state of the soul of any person, since participating in objective evil might not be subjectively intended. But that does not excuse me or anyone else from stating the objective truth.

 

[ishii]

For myself, I don’t particularly judge candidates by party. I was a Democrat my entire life, sort of a Truman-Hubert Humphrey-JFK kind of Democrat. But once the party embraced abortion so wholeheartedly, I found few Dem candidates I could vote for. Now it is embracing same sex ‘marriage’ which will further the decline of marriage and family. I can’t support that, nor can I support government actions requiring Catholics to forfeit their beliefs or be fined. Nor can I support the killing of the unborn.

I used to find little difference between the parties. As between, for example Adlai Stevenson and Dwight Eisenhower, differences were few though Ike’s tremendous popularity could not be overcome.

Now, unfortunately, there are a lot of differences, and social issues are deemed to be divisive, although it is such things as decline of the family which lead ultimately to decline of the nation.

In the days of Truman-Humphrey-JFK, Americans could vote for either the Democrat or the Republican and not really disagree on the main issues that much. In 1960, Kennedy believed in a missile gap, wanted to “get America moving again” etc., but he and Nixon agreed on the crucial issues. Both were anti-communist. This consensus broke down in the 60’s with all the upheavals, and Vietnam, particularly as the Democrat party eschewed its anti-communism and embraced the values of the new left. This culminated in the nomination of George McGovern and the election of one of the most liberal/left new congresses in 1974 - which demanded that the US could not come to the aid of South Vietnam even as they were being invaded by the north. The social liberalism also helped breakdown the consensus, as the Democrats added feminists and abortion rights to its list of interest groups. The education system - dominated by liberals - has also helped break apart this consensus. We are seeing the effects of all this in the way the media goes along with everything Obama says and does, with almost no questioning.

So, we no longer have a consensus. And one of the parties is morally bankrupt, while many in the other one are cowardly - unwilling or afraid to stand up for what is right.

Ishii

 

[ishii]

Just anyone who feels like answering. I just think too often we get to talking about politics and it is a list of things the other group is doing wrong without acknowledging problems with our own group.

Peace

As a registered Republican, I can tell you my biggest problems with them are that they don’t effectively defend the constitution. Too often they are merely “Democrat lite” in that they spend too much on government programs - particularly during the Bush presidency. So I am critical of them for not being conservative enough, and for competing on the Democrats’ terms. Also, they don’t always nominate the strongest candidates - who don’t really know how to speak on the stump and get tripped up on their words. One was apparently a witch previously? So they don’t vet their candidates well enough. Also there is probably too much pork barrel spending - on the domestic side as well as the military side. Too much foreign aid. etc.

So the GOP has its flaws. But overall, they have been strongly pro-life. I don’t think any other party currently has a chance nor has the kind of platform I could support. I suppose the Libertarians come the closest - but they are also too socially liberal. That said, the Democrat party is morally bankrupt, and undeserving of the support of any Catholic.

Ishii

 

[RACJ]

No to take the side of “Gay” anything. Federal control is the surest way to ensure even application of anything. Especially rights, laws, and other key issues.
ATB

What a strange way to look at life, MIckey. We paeans are just a bunch of dimwits who could never survive without “federal control” of our lives! :doh2:

 

[powerofk]

As you know, I’m a registered Independent. Most elections tear me in two who to vote for. I despise the war-mongering that occured during GW Bush’s years (I actually came out against going to war in Afghanistan, and very much against Iraq - which was never a just war). I despise Obama’s extreme partnership with PP (I refuse to use the whole name of that organization, by the way, as the full name of PP is very much Newspeak). And I’ve seen too much of what happens when either party gets too much control. I truly believe that all both parties try to do are gain power when they don’t have it and hold on to power when they do have it - by any means necessary.

 

[Skadi]

No to take the side of “Gay” anything. Federal control is the surest way to ensure even application of anything. Especially rights, laws, and other key issues.

ATB

Regardless of what people want? By that system the federal government is nothing more than a tool to impose the will of the more populous states.

 

[seaton2005]

Your point is that it is fine for Catholics to support candidates who firmly support abortion, who favor the deconstruction of marriage, and who support requiring Catholics to violate their conscience or be fined by the government?

Again, this Catholic is not a one issue voter. I look at the totality of the person and their platform, what they stand for and the like. I vote Democrat like most Catholics do. BTW: The majority of Catholics cast their ballots for President Obama this past election - about 52% or so according to a Pew Poll. Exit polling of self-identified Catholics said that they felt like President Obama is more empathetic. They did so in both elections. So I’m not alone. While I don’t agree with abortion, I’m not going to let that one issue to prevent me from voting for a politician that is pro-choice. I’m willing to look at all the issues and make an objective decision. If a republican ever comes along that is for the little guy, and fair wages, health insurance for all, compassion for the least among us, then I may vote in that direction. But, by the looks at the current field, that’s a long way off. BTW: our sitting Vice President is a faithful Catholic.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Again, this Catholic is not a one issue voter. I look at the totality of the person and their platform, what they stand for and the like. I vote Democrat like most Catholics do. BTW: The majority of Catholics cast their ballots for President Obama this past election - about 52% or so according to a Pew Poll. Exit polling of self-identified Catholics said that they felt like President Obama is more empathetic. They did so in both elections. So I’m not alone. While I don’t agree with abortion, I’m not going to let that one issue to prevent me from voting for a politician that is pro-choice. I’m willing to look at all the issues and make an objective decision. If a republican ever comes along that is for the little guy, and fair wages, health insurance for all, compassion for the least among us, then I may vote in that direction. But, by the looks at the current field, that’s a long way off. BTW: our sitting Vice President is a faithful Catholic.

So based on your criteria for choosing a presidential candidate,you go for the one the seems more empathetic,talks a good game,that’s it,because in case you haven’t noticed,Obama has failed miserably on all counts.He is decidedly the worst president to ever occupy the WH.I pray we can overcome the ruinous policies of this man.:
I won’t even comment on your assessment of Joe Biden

 

[JimG]

Again, this Catholic is not a one issue voter. I look at the totality of the person and their platform, what they stand for and the like. I vote Democrat like most Catholics do. BTW: The majority of Catholics cast their ballots for President Obama this past election - about 52% or so according to a Pew Poll. Exit polling of self-identified Catholics said that they felt like President Obama is more empathetic. They did so in both elections. So I’m not alone. While I don’t agree with abortion, I’m not going to let that one issue to prevent me from voting for a politician that is pro-choice. I’m willing to look at all the issues and make an objective decision. If a republican ever comes along that is for the little guy, and fair wages, health insurance for all, compassion for the least among us, then I may vote in that direction. But, by the looks at the current field, that’s a long way off. BTW: our sitting Vice President is a faithful Catholic.

It’s true, a lot of Catholics voted for Obama, the most pro-abortion presidential candidate in U.S. history. In doing so, they ensured the abortion would be favored and protected by the government. Worse, they ensured that the Catholic Church would be oppressed by official government policy, as in the HHS mandate, which turned the U.S. bishops against the health care law. Catholic businesses and Catholic institutions now face the prospect of being forced to violate Catholic morals or be fined out of existence, just as Catholic adoption agencies have been forced to shut down because they will not place children with same sex couples.

Many Catholics voted clearly against Catholic morality. I wish they would not. The nation will be the worse for it.