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Thanks for all the replies.

One last thing, though, worries me. How can you find somone honest and good that shan’t judge you in times like the present? I have this on-going thing that I’m going to screw up, and I’ll have to tell my boyfriend/fiance/husband, and he’ll take that as a ticket to leave. Not screw up like cheat all out, but… perhaps I did something when I was a teen or did something stupid. Are we obligated to tell our spouses all our past sins, or temptations?
 
ProLife Teen,

That should be a subject of discussion from your future mate - how forgiving are you?

I can recall reading once that men are more forgiving of infidelity than women, beleive it or not (some poll, who knows how accuarate it was).

Basically, what I got from the poll was that men can understand caving into carnal desire and were more likely to forgive where as women may see the sin as more calculating and indicative of how the man feels about them (take it more personally, I guess).

This also may be a cultural difference you are witnessing, not sure on that. Diver was an Australian man, I believe.

I watched a show on Russian Brides on the Discovery Channel where older American men basically go over to Russia and take a young, pretty bride out of poverty. When they interviewed the females as to why they would marry an older man, they remarked that American men are fairly tolerant of raising other men’s kids, were kind, didn’t abuse women, and so forth.

As many point out here, the marriage was not out of romance. It was a religious and economic union.

I am not saying being married to an American guy gives anyone carte blanche to cheat (of course!); just suggesting the fact there may be cultural differences, not so much religious differences.
 
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mumto5:
I think you are a bit naive and underestimate exactly how this can affect a marriage.
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And you seem to underestimate the power of God’s grace as well as the permanence of marriage. Thank God that God isn’t as comprising as many are in matters of love.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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rayne89:
Bah! You’re married 20 years and you say sex is what marriage is all about? I just can’t believe that.

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What I mean is that sex is why marriage was created. Historically. it was created to protect the participants and offspring of sexual unions. Men didn’t want to be putting energy into other people’s offspring, women needed someone to provide/protect and help raise kids, kids needed family for security nurturance etc.

If people did this automatically, there would be no need to create the institution of marriage. But we stray, so marriage was created to help keep us in line.

I am not naive enough to say that sex is what a marriage is about, but it is why marriage came to be. Marriage is more than sex, but sex is the purpose for the creation of the institution, to protect those involved in that sexual union.

And sex is an important part of marriage. Peopl usually get married to someone they want, or at least understand they will be having this type of union with for the rest of their lives. So when this part of the union is misused, cut out, etc. It does cause a huge impact on the rest of the institution.

I am not claiming that sex is the most important thing, nor the sole purpose of any particular marriage between any two particular people. but it is formost in the institution of marriage.

That is why when people who are married cease to have sex, people on these forums say they are living as “sister and brother”, the love is there, the respect, the protection, the family nurturance, those things are all there, but without the sexual aspect, they are no longer considered to be living as husband and wife.

cheddar
 
Ann Cheryl:
Companionship is a wonderful thing. But you can have any number of friends you want, of any gender you want. You can have companionship of your famil members. You can have companions near and far, but without sex, you will have no marriage. I am not making this up. I am not a crazed sex fiend. This is the way it is, and has been for thousands of years. It is the church’s own law.

And why do YOU think Jesus elevated marriage to the status of a sacrament? I don’t pretend to know, but would like to hear your ideas on this.

Frankly, I do think that traditions (small t) in the church have given some conflicting messages on the subject of sex. On the one hand, marriage is a sacrament, but somehow it is better if we downplay the sexual side of it, and act as if it is “not that important”. Yet, the church itself does not recognize a marriage that is unconsummated, nor will it marry people who cannot physically complete the sex act. If companionship were sufficient reason, I don’t think the church would have those rules.

It is a bit confusing to have a Virgin held up as the ultimate example of a perfect wife. Am I the only one who sees the dichotomy of that? It can make it hard for an average couple, trying hard to do God’s will in their marriage, to have the Holy Family held up as THE example of a Christian marriage. When in so many ways it was so untypical. No sex, no other kids, and if tradition (small t) is to be believed, a rather glaring age difference. It is almost as if they lived together as father and daughter, but we are told to take them as an example of husband and wife.

cheddar
 
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Pro-Life_Teen:
Thanks for all the replies.

One last thing, though, worries me. How can you find somone honest and good that shan’t judge you in times like the present? I have this on-going thing that I’m going to screw up, and I’ll have to tell my boyfriend/fiance/husband, and he’ll take that as a ticket to leave. Not screw up like cheat all out, but… perhaps I did something when I was a teen or did something stupid. Are we obligated to tell our spouses all our past sins, or temptations?
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What you think your future spouse is going to be free of sin? Honey, we all sin. We all do things we regret. It’s how we learn from those mistakes…how we repent of our errors in life that shape us into the kind of people we are. Your spouse isn’t there to judge you…but to walk with you towards Christ. Finally, as a babyboomer, you give me tremendous hope for our future. I dare say your morals are far greater developed than most of the kids of my generation. You are on the right path. Rejoice in your sexuality and remember it is a gift from God that is only to be given to the person you join in sacramental marriage.

Okay, one more thing. Someone posted that marriage was all about sex. IMHO, that’s a very shallow outlook on a most precious sacrament. Read John Paul’s Theology of the Body.
 
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StCsDavid:
Okay, one more thing. Someone posted that marriage was all about sex. IMHO, that’s a very shallow outlook on a most precious sacrament. Read John Paul’s Theology of the Body.
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Someone, Me, did not post that marriage was all about sex. I posted that sex is the reason the institute of marriage was created. Please don’t misrepresent me. That is not nice.

cheddar
 
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cheddarsox:
Companionship is a wonderful thing. But you can have any number of friends you want, of any gender you want. You can have companionship of your famil members. You can have companions near and far, but without sex, you will have no marriage. I am not making this up. I am not a crazed sex fiend. This is the way it is, and has been for thousands of years. It is the church’s own law.

And why do YOU think Jesus elevated marriage to the status of a sacrament? I don’t pretend to know, but would like to hear your ideas on this.

Frankly, I do think that traditions (small t) in the church have given some conflicting messages on the subject of sex. On the one hand, marriage is a sacrament, but somehow it is better if we downplay the sexual side of it, and act as if it is “not that important”. Yet, the church itself does not recognize a marriage that is unconsummated, nor will it marry people who cannot physically complete the sex act. If companionship were sufficient reason, I don’t think the church would have those rules.

It is a bit confusing to have a Virgin held up as the ultimate example of a perfect wife. Am I the only one who sees the dichotomy of that? It can make it hard for an average couple, trying hard to do God’s will in their marriage, to have the Holy Family held up as THE example of a Christian marriage. When in so many ways it was so untypical. No sex, no other kids, and if tradition (small t) is to be believed, a rather glaring age difference. It is almost as if they lived together as father and daughter, but we are told to take them as an example of husband and wife.

cheddar
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Their love of God, their love of one another, their total giving of oneself for the other. Doing what was best for the other, for example, St. Joseph took her even when everyone else would have stoned her, he choose to listen to God’s message instead, the Blessed Mother herself, who had choose to remain a virgin, instead carried Jesus and gave birth to Him, because that is what God wanted of her, (God is so awesome by the way, isnt He? He let the Blessed Mother do what she wanted to do for HIM too.) They gave their lives in sacrifice for the good of the other, they protected, nurtured and loved Jesus, they did God’s will. They are a perfect example!
 
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cheddarsox:
Someone, Me, did not post that marriage was all about sex. I posted that sex is the reason the institute of marriage was created. Please don’t misrepresent me. That is not nice.

cheddar
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God created marriage. It is not the only reason that marriage was created and don’t believe it is even the number one reason.
 
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cheddarsox:
Someone, Me, did not post that marriage was all about sex. I posted that sex is the reason the institute of marriage was created. Please don’t misrepresent me. That is not nice.

cheddar
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I stand corrected…my apologies for misquoting. Your post struck me that marriage was all about sex and I should have gone back and re-read it. Mea culpa.

Now to the assertion that sex is the reason for the institution of marriage…sorry, but that too, I find to be an insufficient assessment. We only need look at Genesis to see that God didn’t create Eve to be Adam’s outlet for sex. I really encourage you to read Theology of the Body.
 
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cheddarsox:
Someone, Me, did not post that marriage was all about sex. I posted that sex is the reason the institute of marriage was created. Please don’t misrepresent me. That is not nice.

cheddar
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I stand corrected…my apologies for misquoting. Your post struck me that marriage was all about sex and I should have gone back and re-read it. Mea culpa.

Now to the assertion that sex is the reason for the institution of marriage…sorry, but that too, I find to be an insufficient assessment. We only need look at Genesis to see that God didn’t create Eve to be Adam’s outlet for sex. I really encourage you to read Theology of the Body.
 
Cheddarsox, I’m with StC’sDavid. You said,

“Historically. it was created to protect the participants and offspring of sexual unions. Men didn’t want to be putting energy into other people’s offspring, women needed someone to provide/protect and help raise kids, kids needed family for security nurturance etc.”

That’s the secular humanist view. It’s not the Catholic view.

God made it a sacrament, in the beginning. “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.” Gen 2:24 (KJV)

The Mosaic law added divorces and other stuff that detracted from the sacramental nature of marriage. Jesus didn’t “elevate” it to a sacrament; he returned it to its proper place.

Pro-Life Teen, you hang in there!
 
Krasnaya Kometa:
You also have to consider that Jesus says “any man who divorces his wife for any reason other than sexual immorality causes her to be an adulteress”. I have no idea what I’d do in that situation but I know one thing for sure, I’d be severely damaged. There would be a lot of sadness and a lot of hatred, and I don’t know if I wouldn’t just take the easy way out and forget it all. On the other hand, it would depend on how sorry she was. nobody can make themselves feel emotions, but if she wasn’t falling to her knees in remorse it would be kind of hard for me to accept her back as my wife. Like I said, though, I don’t know how I’d feel. I might mention divorce to see how she’d react. If she got angry I probably would, and if she started crying I probably would take her back. It all depends…
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Sorry, but you’re wrong. That’s a mistranslation of the Greek word He used when speaking. What Our Lord meant, in the correct translation, is something along the lines of annulment. If the marriage was never real, you can ‘divorce’. Take a decree of nullity. This was, if I’m not mistaken, said to the Romans, who married their siblings and other things. Those were never real marriages and were rather sinful as well.
And those that are all telling me to hang in there, many thanks. I’m glad to see I’m not the only one. Now only to find more my age that think as I do. 😃
 
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Ruthie:
Cheddarsox, I’m with StC’sDavid. You said,

“Historically. it was created to protect the participants and offspring of sexual unions. Men didn’t want to be putting energy into other people’s offspring, women needed someone to provide/protect and help raise kids, kids needed family for security nurturance etc.”

That’s the secular humanist view. It’s not the Catholic view.

God made it a sacrament, in the beginning. “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.” Gen 2:24 (KJV)

The Mosaic law added divorces and other stuff that detracted from the sacramental nature of marriage. Jesus didn’t “elevate” it to a sacrament; he returned it to its proper place.

Pro-Life Teen, you hang in there!
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What is the Catholic view then? You yourself quote that the two shall be one flesh. Is that not a reference to the sexual union? Does the church not hold that a marriage is not valid until it has been sexually consumated? Does the church not refuse to marry people who are physically incapable of completing the sex act?

Yes, all those other wonderful means of showing love and christian fellowship are part of marriage. But without sex, it simply isnt’ a marriage. And yes, that is the CATHOLIC view, not secular humanist. I am not making this up, it is what the church itself teaches.

Companionship is vitally important, but without sex, no marriage. Why is that so hard to accept? Both marriage and sex are good things created by God. There is no shame in admitting that sex is important to people, and important in a marriage. It is a special union, a sexual union. Not merely a friendship or any other of the wonderful relationships that people are blessed to have.

If sex is not what sets it apart, even in the eyes of God, why is it the only relationship between humans that constitutes a sacrament?

cheddar
 
Ann Cheryl:
God created marriage. It is not the only reason that marriage was created and don’t believe it is even the number one reason.
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Please share more insight on this. I have asked this question on the forums before, what marriage is about, why it was instituted. I think it is a very important question and one that bears discussing as the majority of people here will be married at some point in their lives.

cheddar
 
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allhers:
Their love of God, their love of one another, their total giving of oneself for the other. Doing what was best for the other, for example, St. Joseph took her even when everyone else would have stoned her, he choose to listen to God’s message instead, the Blessed Mother herself, who had choose to remain a virgin, instead carried Jesus and gave birth to Him, because that is what God wanted of her, (God is so awesome by the way, isnt He? He let the Blessed Mother do what she wanted to do for HIM too.) They gave their lives in sacrifice for the good of the other, they protected, nurtured and loved Jesus, they did God’s will. They are a perfect example!
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The holy family is a wonderful example of many types of love. I am not sure about that total giving of self to each other. That is what the church teaches takes place during sex, and the holy couple did not participate in that.

I am not trying to take away any of the veneration given to Mary or Joseph. They did do God’s will. But they are not an perfect example of married love, because they lacked a very vital part of what constitutes married love, by the church’s own teachings.

It takes nothing away from them to acknowledge this.

cheddar
 
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StCsDavid:
I stand corrected…my apologies for misquoting. Your post struck me that marriage was all about sex and I should have gone back and re-read it. Mea culpa.

Now to the assertion that sex is the reason for the institution of marriage…sorry, but that too, I find to be an insufficient assessment. We only need look at Genesis to see that God didn’t create Eve to be Adam’s outlet for sex. I really encourage you to read Theology of the Body.
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I never said nor implied that Eve was created to serve as an outlet. Of course, sex is to be a mutal total giving of self on the part of both partners.

Without sex, there would be no need for marriage. We could all just be friends, even have special close friendships. We could still love one another deeply, even perfectly.

God did not deem any other relationship, no matter how deep, total, loving, self sacraficing to be a sacrament, only this one type of relationship. This sexual type of relationship. I am not making that up. There it is in the Bible, there it is in the teachings of the church.

You can try to paint me as focusing too much on sex but I am not the one that singled out this one type of relationship as uniquely special. If sex is not the thing that makes a marriage unique among all other types of relationships, what is? It is the only thing that is unique to the marriage relationship alone. It is the special union that is used in the Bible itself as a metaphore for the love God has for his church. Yes, a sexual metaphore.

You say I put the focus in the wrong place, but I neither created marriage nor wrote the Bible.

cheddar
 
Yes, Pro-Life Teen, you are naive, you need to understand that adults act like children quite often.
 
While reading through this thread I was really struck by something. While I agree that marriage has become a victim of our throw-away society, no one has looked at the ripples of adultary. Today’s STDs can cost your very life. I’m not so sure I’d be able to forgive a spouse that would literally be playing with my life. Christ prompts us all to forgive but does that also require us to be foolish?
I truly believe prayer to be the path to a spiritual spouse. I actually announced to the Lord that I was fed up, there were no good men and pretty much challenged Him to find the man for me. 13 years and four wonderful children later, I offer trust only in God…or challenge Him. I like to think God has a sense of humor. Just look at the answer to my prayer/challenge.
 
Exactly what the previous poster said. Which is why I would stay with my husband but would not sleep with him again. He would have put me at risk once, I’m not risking it again,
 
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