Raping non-muslim... Legal in Islam?

[THEKING]

Rodrigo thank you for the posts.

What is divine about rape? what is divine about breaking a marriage for sex? what is divine about suckling the adults? what is divine about a man taking his adopted son’s wife?what is divine about unlimited sexual partners for a man supposed to be a prophet and ideal example? how sick.

 

[THEKING]

.

Getting off subject again… Like I asked you to begin with, do you condone slavery or not?

Muslim technique. When Jesus opposes their views, they attack the Torah…hey didn’t Jesus come to restore the Law?? i don’t remember how many times i had to ask myself this question in order to justify Muhammad’s immoralities…but what Jesus meant is absent to Muslim minds. The don’t understand that Jesus came to restore the Law to it;s Truth and dignity as per OT prophecies, that;s why He used to say : you heard this BUT i tell you that…in Jesus’ Law, there is no place for slavery or rape or booties cuz it;s built on a Divine Law of equality, mercy, compassion and love.

Furthermore, there is no rape in Torah…the slave, if any, must be taken as a WIFE. mMuhammad not only broke the Messiah’s law, but the Mosaic Law as well.

 

[THEKING]

In the “Jihaads” (Islamic wars) that took place, women were also, at times, taken as prisoners of war by the Muslim warriors. These women captives used to be distributed as part of the booty among the soldiers, after their return to Islamic territory. Each soldier was then entitled to have relations ONLY with the slave girl over which he was given the RIGHT OF OWNERSHIP and NOT with those slave girls that were not in his possession. This RIGHT OF OWNERSHIP was given to him by the “Ameerul-Mu’mineen” (Head of the Islamic state.) Due to this right of ownership, It became lawful for the owner of a slave girl to have intercourse with her.

It may, superficially, appear distasteful to copulate with a woman who is not a man’s legal wife, but once Shariat makes something lawful, we have to accept it as lawful, whether it appeals to our taste, or not; and whether we know its underlying wisdom or not. It is necessary for a Muslim to be acquainted with the laws of Shariat, but it is not necessary for him to delve into each law in order to find the underlying wisdom of these laws because knowledge of the wisdom of some of the laws may be beyond his puny comprehension. Allah Ta’ala has said in the Holy Quran: “Wa maa ooteetum min al-ilm illaa qaleelan” which means, more or less, that, "You have been given a very small portion of knowledge”. Hence, if a person fails to comprehend the underlying wisdom of any law of Shariat, he cannot regard it as a fault of Shariat (Allah forbid), on the contrary, it is the fault of his own perception and lack of understanding, because no law of Shariat is contradictory to wisdom.

In other words, yea it is sick but don’t ask : Muhammad wanted this Muslims call adultery wisdom.

Dr. Abdul Latif, from Al-Azhar writes “The second reason (to take slaves) is the sexual propagation of slaves which would generate more slaves for the owner.” "You Ask, Islam Answers, page 51,52].

Ibn Timmiya wrote:
“The one who owns the mother also owns her children. Being the master of the mother makes him the owner of her children whether they were born to a husband or they were illegitimate children. Therefore, the master has the right to have sexual intercourse with the daughters of his maid slave because they are the daughters of his property, provided he does not sleep with the mother at the same time”…

very divine and noble.Neither Moses not Jesus taught this. Muhammad had to satisfy his needs by any means

 

[thistle]

In case the muslims in these forums might claim they missed the question of JKirkLVNV despite the fact he asked it several times I have copied it below:

"Does Islam allow for the capture OR forcible captivity OR the exertion of formal or informal coercive power over women or the eslavement of the same, whose marriages are then null by virtue of the capture OR forcible captivity OR the exertion of formal or informal coercive power over those women or by the enslavement of the same, and then allow sexual relations between the captor/keeper/coercer/owner and those female slaves, even if that slave expresses the desire to NOT have sexual relations with her captor/keeper/coercer/owner ?"

Instead of silence, or digressing by asking questions about Christianity are there any Muslims who have the courage of their religious convictions who will answer JKirk’s question? If we don’t get a direct answer then I guess that means that the answer is yes and muslims are too ashamed to admit it.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Nathann,
First of all, I am not an enemy of the Catholics, having been invited here by my Catholic friends. I was also almost married to a Catholic woman a long time ago.

Secondly, I don’t want to move this thread in the wrong direction so I will be happy to discuss Muhammad’s genocide against the Qurayza and his unprovoked attacks on the Meccan caravans in another thread.

Please bear in mind your argumenta ad verecundiam above are all false. Suffice to say that a prophet of a true god would not commit genocide. To argue that he was merely acting according to the mores and morality of the seventh century is basically admitting that Muhammad was a barbaric savage and that he has no message that is relevant for us today. There is no excuse for genocide, ever.

Oh… and if you want to argue that the Qurayza were executed according to the Jewish genocide verses in the torah then you’ll have to find out why the Qurayza would be going against the Talmud which outlawed genocide a few centuries before Muhammad was born.

Hasta luego,
Rodrigo

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Dr. Abdul Latif, from Al-Azhar writes “The second reason (to take slaves) is the sexual propagation of slaves which would generate more slaves for the owner.” "You Ask, Islam Answers, page 51,52].

Ibn Timmiya wrote:
“The one who owns the mother also owns her children. Being the master of the mother makes him the owner of her children whether they were born to a husband or they were illegitimate children. Therefore, the master has the right to have sexual intercourse with the daughters of his maid slave because they are the daughters of his property, provided he does not sleep with the mother at the same time”…

Thanks for this info. Even though American slave-owners also did the same, it is apparent here that the Muslim slave-owners enslaved their own children (who were progeny of their slaves whom they had sex with).

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Thanks for this info. Even though American slave-owners also did the same, it is apparent here that the Muslim slave-owners enslaved their own children (who were progeny of their slaves whom they had sex with).

Pity’s sake, NO ONE HERE IS ARGUING THAT AMERICAN’S DIDN’T DO IT AS WELL!!! My great-great-great-great grandfather was a slave owner in Georgia. He had a total of 30 children, about 8 with his legal wife and the rest through congress with several slave concubines, who then became his property!!! NO ONE IS DENYING IT HAPPENED! Our point is that it is NOT nor ever has been condoned or sanctioned by the Christ, the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity.

Can I get a simple answer to the question that I’ve posted several times and that Thistle has posted once?

 

[nathann]

Nathann,
First of all, I am not an enemy of the Catholics, having been invited here by my Catholic friends. I was also almost married to a Catholic woman a long time ago.

It is bad that you could not marry a Catholic woman.

But it is so sad to see that you in fact are an enemy of atleast Pope JP II if not the whole Church.

Isn’t this site actually designed to defame Catholic church by inviting people like you to do more damage to the values of Catholic church which is already perishing for various reasons or because of Catholics like you who if you are actually disguised as non-Catholic?

Whoever invited you to “defend” Catholicism too seems an enemy of Catholic church. Because the way you have adopted to criticise Islam, will never win the hearts of the Moslims. So basically you are making Moslims believe that you have no genuine intention to live with peace because there is no question for Moslims to embrace Christianity as they have the ultimate Final and uncorrupted Revelation of God–The Koran. It would be stupid for Moslims to leave their genuine prestine Word of God and adopt your polytheistic and corrupted and man-made theology that is mixed with pagan ideas.

Even if the theology of Jesus Christ was to be found in prestine form, Moslims are bound to follow the Last Prophethood of Muhammad (PBUH) because the mission of Jesus Christ was limited to the Children of Israel only.

Islam is not like your Catholicism. To know Islam, you are required to go through step by step starting from the fundamentals of Islam such as Tauheed.

What you are qouting from Ahadith is not what you are deducing. For true understanding of Ahadith you need to know the Science of Hadith first.

You may carry some books of Islam but you will not understand them unless you go step by step otherwise:

“The parable of those who reject Faith is as if one were to shout Like a goat-herd, to things that listen to nothing but calls and cries: Deaf, dumb, and blind, they are void of wisdom.” S 2:171 (The Koran)

 

[nathann]

Oh… and if you want to argue that the Qurayza were executed according to the Jewish genocide verses in the torah then you’ll have to find out why the Qurayza would be going against the Talmud which outlawed genocide a few centuries before Muhammad was born.

If you think that all Jews of all periods of all countries were following 100% same Talmudic theology then your stupidity is laughable.

Are you saying that all Christians of whole Christendom have had same 100% theology/ideas/dogmas eversince Paul’s Christianity came into being?

You don’t even have one standard canon of your Bible, let alone all other traditions which have given birth to countless denominations.

Arab Jews in the time of Prophet Muahmmed (PBUH) 1400 ago may not necessarily have the same Talmudic teachings.

Who you are foloing with your stupidity? Moslims or yourself?

 

[Mr_Jullien]

To Catholics/Christians,

I just finished listening to a CD set by Catholic Apologist, Tim Staples, titled: "Islam Exposed: The Crescent in Light of the Cross".

If you want to know what the “prophet” Muhammed taught about Concubines and slaves, Mr. Staples (reading straight from the Koran) gives you Chapters and verses . Pay particular attention to CD #2.

A website called: The Crossraods Initiative, offers the set at the lowest price I’ve seen yet, of $22.95. Believe me, it’s worth every cent.

If you plan to order this CD set, be warned, in advance: It is NOT politically correct.

PAX,

Jullien

 

[exoflare]

To Catholics/Christians,

I just finished listening to a CD set by Catholic Apologist, Tim Staples, titled: "Islam Exposed: The Crescent in Light of the Cross".**
**
If you want to know what the “prophet” Muhammed taught about Concubines and slaves, Mr. Staples (reading straight from the Koran) gives you Chapters and verses . Pay particular attention to CD #2.

A website called: The Crossraods Initiative, offers the set at the lowest price I’ve seen yet, of $22.95. Believe me, it’s worth every cent.

If you plan to order this CD set, be warned, in advance: It is NOT politically correct.

PAX,

Jullien

I’ve met Tim Staples in person before… and yeah, he’s definitely not one to cower to the PC conventions of the day. This should be really great. I can’t wait to listen to it!

 

[exoflare]

Too bad nathann couldn’t spare 30 seconds of time to finally answer my question during his/her last little rant…

 

[exoflare]

Are you saying that all Christians of whole Christendom have had same 100% theology/ideas/dogmas eversince Paul’s Christianity came into being?

Typical Muslim alright… Sometimes I wonder if they just have one big book of nutty conspiracy theories that they’re all told to read from. It kind of seems like it a lot.

 

[exoflare]

Whoever invited you to “defend” Catholicism too seems an enemy of Catholic church. Because the way you have adopted to criticise Islam, will never win the hearts of the Moslims.

Where does he say he came to “defend” Catholicism? Please point it out.

Or is this just one of the many things you’re making up at the top of your head?

 

[exoflare]

In case the muslims in these forums might claim they missed the question of JKirkLVNV despite the fact he asked it several times I have copied it below:

"Does Islam allow for the capture OR forcible captivity OR the exertion of formal or informal coercive power over women or the eslavement of the same, whose marriages are then null by virtue of the capture OR forcible captivity OR the exertion of formal or informal coercive power over those women or by the enslavement of the same, and then allow sexual relations between the captor/keeper/coercer/owner and those female slaves, even if that slave expresses the desire to NOT have sexual relations with her captor/keeper/coercer/owner ?"

Instead of silence, or digressing by asking questions about Christianity are there any Muslims who have the courage of their religious convictions who will answer JKirk’s question? If we don’t get a direct answer then I guess that means that the answer is yes and muslims are too ashamed to admit it.

Well, I think we just got our answer.

 

[Mr_Jullien]

I’ve met Tim Staples in person before… and yeah, he’s definitely not one to cower to the PC conventions of the day. This should be really great. I can’t wait to listen to it!

Believe me, you’ll find it extremely enlightening; even a bit scarey.

I’ve been reading through this thread and am eagerly awaiting a reply to one of the poster’s questions. What is the difference between a slave in Islam and the slaves of early America? (According to a Muslim)
And also, if non-Muslims/slaves are dirty and reviled and “are on a list which also includes feces, urine, blood, dogs and pigs”, why any would a devout follower of Islam want to even touch them, let alone force intimate contact on such filth?
Wouldn’t they be soiling/contaminating themselves?

Aren’t there any devout followers of the Koran around to shed some light on these issues?

PAX,

Jullien

 

[THEKING]

wow over 90 posts already.

Did Muhammad rape his slaves? from a Muslim perspective, it is not called rape; it has “wisdom” even if you don’t understand it.

to non-Muslims, it’s immoral and considered adultery : having sex outside marriage, worse yet, the slave is already married! peak of immorality.

As simple as this.

 

[THEKING]

Typical Muslim alright… Sometimes I wonder if they just have one big book of nutty conspiracy theories that they’re all told to read from. It kind of seems like it a lot.

what is strange is that they believe everything they read without even checking. When asked to prove that Paul taught someting that Jesus or the other apostles did not teach, they fail.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

If you think that all Jews of all periods of all countries were following 100% same Talmudic theology then your stupidity is laughable.

Are you saying that all Christians of whole Christendom have had same 100% theology/ideas/dogmas eversince Paul’s Christianity came into being?

You don’t even have one standard canon of your Bible, let alone all other traditions which have given birth to countless denominations.

Arab Jews in the time of Prophet Muahmmed (PBUH) 1400 ago may not necessarily have the same Talmudic teachings.

Who you are foloing with your stupidity? Moslims or yourself?

I already told you I don’t think we should hijack this thread. This is another issue which I will be happy to discuss with you in another thread.

Please desist with your insults. Let us match intellect and knowledge in another thread. Suffice to say, your attempts to argue tu quoque against the Jews will fail as it will only serve to prove that your Allah and prophet are no better than the next genocidal maniac.

Hasta luego,
Rodrigo

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Pity’s sake, NO ONE HERE IS ARGUING THAT AMERICAN’S DIDN’T DO IT AS WELL!!! My great-great-great-great grandfather was a slave owner in Georgia. He had a total of 30 children, about 8 with his legal wife and the rest through congress with several slave concubines, who then became his property!!! NO ONE IS DENYING IT HAPPENED! Our point is that it is NOT nor ever has been condoned or sanctioned by the Christ, the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity.

Can I get a simple answer to the question that I’ve posted several times and that Thistle has posted once?

Just trying to forestall the inevitable Muslim response of tu quoque, bud. I’m fully in agreement with you.