Rapture of the Church

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excatholic:
You are right there is no third coming of the Messiah only a second coming. The Rapture takes place above the earth in the clouds.
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So you claim a distinction between the earth and its atmosphere? This seems a hollow and contrived distinction. How is his failure to touch the ground not constitute a coming? He has descended from Heaven to earths atmosphere–thats not a coming?
 
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excatholic:
God destroyed the Earth with the flood, it was his wrath.
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It the Earth was destroyed would you enlighten me as to which planet I am living on? Can you direct me to the Scripture where God creates the planet I am on? God destroyed the inhabitants of the Earth (other than Noah and his family) not the Earth–as in planet.
 
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MarkInOregon:
It the Earth was destroyed would you enlighten me as to which planet I am living on? Can you direct me to the Scripture where God creates the planet I am on? God destroyed the inhabitants of the Earth (other than Noah and his family) not the Earth–as in planet.
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Hi MarkinOregon,
We are in the period, the beginning of sorrows.
Shortly we will begin tribulation a period of 7 years split into two 31/2 periods. At the end of tribulation, in which most of the people on earth will be killed, only a remnant left ( I guess) Satan will be thrown into the bottomless pit. Those in christ who die for Him will live and reign with Him for the 1000 years at which time Satan will be let out again for a short time ( who knows how long) The rest of the dead who are killed during tribulation ( most of the people) will not come back to life until the general resurrection.
On Jesus 2nd coming satan will be defeated and thrown into the lake of fire This will be the rapture. There will be a resurrection of all, in hell in heaven and from earth of the living and of the dead… This is to save all from the melting of the heavens and the earth. Judgement and the Holy City coming down to earth for those in Christ, Huge numbers, and the lake of fire for the rest.
Questions? lol
Christ be with you
walk in lovehttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
edwinG
 
Originally Posted by ppcpilot
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Today at church, the reading in Luke was the one dealing with the end times, and how if two people are in bed, one will be taken and the other left.
How are we to interpret this?**

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**Excatholic (replied) **How do you interpret it? Sorry to answer a question with question but I feel that you already have an answer don’t you. I think it pertains to a rapture because when Jesus sets foot on the planet there are many people left on it.
Actually this is a great passage to demonstrate the absurdity of the rapture interpretation.

Ironically this passage is rarely used by rapturist because the holes in the theory are so obvious here they usually refer to the parallel passage in Matthew 24 which they butcher to get the rapture theory. As any good scripture exegete whether protestant or catholic will tell you when interpretating the gospels compare the parallel passages the proper interpretation will have the gospels agreeing upon the interpretation and not contradicting each other. The catholic position is the same for Matthew 24 and Luke 17 the rapturist interpretation has to be twisted in Luke 17 beyond logic to make it agree with their bizarre interpretation of Matthew 24.

Here is the passage.

Luke 17
30 "It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man (1) is revealed.
31 "On that day, the one who is (2) on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back.
32 "(3) Remember Lot’s wife.
33 "(4) Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
34 "I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left.
35 "(5) There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left.
36 “1] (6) Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left.”]
37 And answering they said to Him, “Where, Lord?” And He said to them, “(7) Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered.”

Let’s cut to the chase here. Where are these people being taken here?

V 37 says “Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered."
 
Well bud unless vultures take people to heaven or vultures are in heaven I don’t think this passage is talking about a rapture here. I am sure a raptursit would like it to say angels instead of vultures but because this not referring to rapture it doesn’t. Hey don’t blame me this is the Bible talking you know the stuff you guys think contains all your fundie doctrine. In this case and others it doesn’t.

What this verse is saying is that these victims are being taken away to their destruction much like the wicked were taken in the flood to their destruction in the days of Noah.

As told in the parallel passage in Mt 24:36-44.

Apparently both are referencing the sudden unexpected way the sudden unexpected way the 2nd coming or last judgement will happen.

In this scenario the day that brings salvation for believers will bring judgement and destruction on umbeleivers. The Son of Man will bring the separation of the just and unjust this day will bring irrevocable disaster for an unprepared generation.

One thing is clearly demonstrated there are no second chances as in a rapturist scenario.

Here Christ’s return will be swift, unexpected , and accompanied by judgement.

Even when applied to the destruction of Jerusalem 70 AD . (Also known as the little apocalypse and the more dominant interpretation of the Matthew 24 and Luke 17 passages) or when applying it to the Flood of Noah or the fleeing of Lot from Sodom there is a principle and its not that people did not suddenly disappear into thin air; they are taken away and those taken were taken to their destruction. Thus the accompanied judgement.
 
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edwinG:
Hi MarkinOregon,
We are in the period, the beginning of sorrows.
Shortly we will begin tribulation a period of 7 years split into two 31/2 periods. At the end of tribulation, in which most of the people on earth will be killed, only a remnant left ( I guess) Satan will be thrown into the bottomless pit. Those in christ who die for Him will live and reign with Him for the 1000 years at which time Satan will be let out again for a short time ( who knows how long) The rest of the dead who are killed during tribulation ( most of the people) will not come back to life until the general resurrection.
On Jesus 2nd coming satan will be defeated and thrown into the lake of fire This will be the rapture. There will be a resurrection of all, in hell in heaven and from earth of the living and of the dead… This is to save all from the melting of the heavens and the earth. Judgement and the Holy City coming down to earth for those in Christ, Huge numbers, and the lake of fire for the rest.
Questions? lol
Christ be with you
walk in lovehttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
edwinG
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The funny thing about these 2 small passages taken from the NT and covinced so many of my separated brethren of the rapture is that over the years this false teaching has become more and more detailed. Is that through revelation or Tim Lehaye (Left Behind). I think the later.
 
Random thoughts from a former Plymouth Brethren (I know from the Rapture, ex-C)

What we have here is a former Catholic who is all fired up and excited about a theory/theology that he really does not understand, and to be honest how can he be expected to understand it? It is not in the Bible that is his only source of information (Sola Scriptura too right, ex-C?)

I will elucidate and then maybe our friend will take some time to try and wrap ‘proof-text’ around his belief.

The rapture, as a theology is **silent **there is no trumpet, the Son of Man is **not declared **at the rapture. It is a big secret. So the ‘proof texts’ that have been offered thus far are negated as they involve sound and sight…anyone else see the contradiction there?

Next, the reason that groups adhering to pre-trib rapture do not address the “dead in Christ will rise first” issue is that they believe that the dead are already in Heaven. One way ticket in, no stop in Purgatory, express post. So how can the dead possibly be raised up first? The answer is quite simple you see…we just don’t talk about it. And we don’t talk about John 6, because you see, it doesn’t conform with our belief that communion is symbolic only. And we don’t talk about Peter being the Rock and given the keys and we don’t talk about Mary needing to be something better than just ‘another girl’.

You see Ex-Catholic, you will find many things that are simply not discussed out there in the world of Protestantism…those are the very things that drove me away from it. You must be diligent, continue to ask questions, and really, **really **listen to the answers. And particularly listen to the ‘still, small voice’ that is telling you that something you are being taught is not quite ringing true.

As someone said earlier, “We’ll keep the light on for ya”

In Christ,

Susan
 
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