Rapture

[truthquester]

Can somebody please explain the rapture to me and what does it mean?

 

[adamhovey1988]

Can somebody please explain the rapture to me and what does it mean?

The word rapture, or the notion of a rapture popularised by John Nelson Darby?

 

[Catholic1954]

Can somebody please explain the rapture to me and what does it mean?

The rapture is a non-Catholic notion that at some time in the future, Christ will rescue his Church by bringing the faithful directly up to heaven and leave the rest of mankind behind to endure seven years of tribulation at the hands of the Anti-Christ and his minions. This is a separate event to the End of Time and the Final Judgement. The Catholic Church does not teach this.

 

[GEddie]

It also was not taught by anybody prior to the 1800s.

ICXC NIKA

 

[johnnyc176]

Can somebody please explain the rapture to me and what does it mean?

St. Theresa of Avila described it as being suddenly consumed by the love of God, feel the bodily presence of Christ or the angels and be lifted to an exalted state of ecstasy. There is a famous artwork depicting as such.

 

[Padres1969]

Can somebody please explain the rapture to me and what does it mean?

What type of Rapture are you referring to?

 

[The_Old_Maid]

The rapture is part of dispensationalism. Dispensationalists tend to read the first chapters of the Revelation of the Apocalypse (the letters to the 7 churches) as references to 7 eras.

Dispensationalism teaches that God has divided human history into distinct eras; each era has a different way to be saved. Humans of course fail every time. God then ends that era and introduces a new one. Christ is considered to be concealed in all dispensations and finally revealed in #6, the Church era. However, since Jesus didn’t become the earthly King of the Jews, dispensationalists believe that era #7 will deal directly with them.

The rapture (nicknamed the “beam-me-up” belief by unkind critics) is said to be necessary because God supposedly will remove the Holy Spirit from the world and all who are in right relationship with God through Christ and the Spirit. Then, in a world with all the “real, true” Christians gone, the way is made clear for an Antichrist.

This is in contrast to the first chapter of Acts, in which angels inform us that “this same Jesus [not a different Jesus] will return in the same way [and not a different way] that you saw Him go.” Rapturists believe Jesus will do a fly-by to collect all “real, true” Christians. Later (in most interpretations, 7 years later), Jesus will descend to earth visibly and with power with these glorified saints and angels to defeat the Antichrist and begin dispensation era #7.

Hal Lindsey is a strict rapturist. Very few people “left behind” are expected to repent and get saved, whether Jew or Gentile. He is the author of the Late, great planet earth series.

Tim LaHaye is a strict rapturist in some senses (only one known Catholic gets raptured – and he’s the pope!) but an extravagantly generous rapturist in other senses (every child on earth gets raptured, including those being brought up atheist, Buddhist, Catholic, [insert your own A-Z list here]). LaHaye with writer Jerry Jenkins are the authors of the Left Behind series.

Where they got their Bible verses, and how they translate them, can be found here and especially here.

Alternately, if that version is too dry, I’ve included spoilers for :

***Left Behind ***#1 (the rapture, the Antichrist is introduced);

Book 2 (more Antichristy stuff; the characters get married);

Book 11 (characters die a lot; Antichrist doubled down wiping out Jews);

and Book 16 (L & J’s speculations on dispensation era #7).

 

[The_Old_Maid]

Also, I would second the other posters in this thread that most followers of Jesus Christ do not believe in the rapture, tribulation, multiple Judgment Days, and an earthly Millennium with Jesus as an earthly King.

However, those who do believe these things, believe these things because they were told that the Bible teaches it.

That’s why it is important to be kind:

*" … but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect … *(I Peter 3:15).

 

[Son_of_Niall]

Tim LaHaye is a strict rapturist in some senses (only one known Catholic gets raptured – and he’s the pope!) but an extravagantly generous rapturist in other senses (every child on earth gets raptured, including those being brought up atheist, Buddhist, Catholic, [insert your own A-Z list here]). LaHaye with writer Jerry Jenkins are the authors of the Left Behind series.

Where they got their Bible verses, and how they translate them, can be found here and especially here.

Alternately, if that version is too dry, I’ve included spoilers for :

***Left Behind ***#1 (the rapture, the Antichrist is introduced);

Book 2 (more Antichristy stuff; the characters get married);

Book 11 (characters die a lot; Antichrist doubled down wiping out Jews);

and Book 16 (L & J’s speculations on dispensation era #7).

Ah yes, the ‘Left Behind’ series. In which both the books and movies managed to convert a book of the Bible into bad pulp fiction and an even worse ‘B’ movie starring notorious anti-Catholic Kirk Cameron.
I’m rather surprised anybody still believes this stuff anymore. I was hoping it would vanish like other crazy ‘end times’ theories.

 

[The_Old_Maid]

Yes, one would think the series would fade with time, given that the first book is over 20 years old, and #16 (the last) is almost 10 years old.

However, it has certain unique features that give it longevity.

It presents the rapturist/dispensationalist model in an easily digestible form. (Your definition of “easily” digestible may vary. For those who like it, it’s the spoonful of sugar that helps the medicine go down. For those who don’t, it’s more like hiding pills in treats).

It’s also the giant on the block. An old giant is still a giant, and will remain so until someone bigger comes along.

Meanwhile, LaHaye and Jekins each have moved on to their separate projects. Jerry Jenkins has been working on a Saint Paul series recently.

Kirk Cameron and Nicholas Cage both have done Left Behind movies. They’re fairly close in terms of the number of Razzies they’ve won.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Since the discussion has drifted to Left Behind, I must say that series has the dubious virtue of exposing just how Scripturally untenable the dispensationalist/pre-trib enterprise truly is. One amusing thing is the first of the four horsemen of Revelation is thought (by dispensationalists) to be the Antichrist. He arrives on the scene when a treaty of some kind is signed.

The person who signs the treaty is the Antichrist.

So basically the Antichrist signs a treaty which is what permits the Antichrist to arrive on the scene.

The effect precedes the cause according to the pre-tribber’s own model. Yeah, good luck making sense of that one.

I’d never realized just how flimsy the entire pre-trib/dispensationalist case was until I read it all put together courtesy of LaHaye and Jenkins.

And this is not to speak of how badly written those novels all are. I’d lost all sympathy for the characters by the halfway point of the series and couldn’t have cared less when several of them died in the story.

But anyway, this whole rapture thing in the way the dispensationalist crowd mean it is a 19th century concept that has no basis in historical Christianity. It’s an innovation even by Protestant standards. I find it telling that only a minority of Protestants believe in this stuff. And it seems to be a peculiarly American notion at that.

 

[adamhovey1988]

Since the discussion has drifted to Left Behind, I must say that series has the dubious virtue of exposing just how Scripturally untenable the dispensationalist/pre-trib enterprise truly is. One amusing thing is the first of the four horsemen of Revelation is thought (by dispensationalists) to be the Antichrist. He arrives on the scene when a treaty of some kind is signed.

The person who signs the treaty is the Antichrist.

So basically the Antichrist signs a treaty which is what permits the Antichrist to arrive on the scene.

The effect precedes the cause according to the pre-tribber’s own model. Yeah, good luck making sense of that one.

I’d never realized just how flimsy the entire pre-trib/dispensationalist case was until I read it all put together courtesy of LaHaye and Jenkins.

And this is not to speak of how badly written those novels all are. I’d lost all sympathy for the characters by the halfway point of the series and couldn’t have cared less when several of them died in the story.

But anyway, this whole rapture thing in the way the dispensationalist crowd mean it is a 19th century concept that has no basis in historical Christianity. It’s an innovation even by Protestant standards. I find it telling that only a minority of Protestants believe in this stuff. And it seems to be a peculiarly American notion at that.

Yes here’s the thing if there were a pre-tribulation Rapture apparently only American Protestants would be caught up in it. I believe most Mainline denominations though I don’t think believe in the pre-tribulation Rapture is coming correct me if I’m wrong I’m not Protestant so I don’t know I live where there are a lot of Protestants but most of them are Baptist or those so-called nondenominational, quite a few Methodists though.

 

[Son_of_Niall]

Since the discussion has drifted to Left Behind, I must say that series has the dubious virtue of exposing just how Scripturally untenable the dispensationalist/pre-trib enterprise truly is. One amusing thing is the first of the four horsemen of Revelation is thought (by dispensationalists) to be the Antichrist. He arrives on the scene when a treaty of some kind is signed.

The person who signs the treaty is the Antichrist.

So basically the Antichrist signs a treaty which is what permits the Antichrist to arrive on the scene.

The effect precedes the cause according to the pre-tribber’s own model. Yeah, good luck making sense of that one.

I’d never realized just how flimsy the entire pre-trib/dispensationalist case was until I read it all put together courtesy of LaHaye and Jenkins.

And this is not to speak of how badly written those novels all are. I’d lost all sympathy for the characters by the halfway point of the series and couldn’t have cared less when several of them died in the story.

But anyway, this whole rapture thing in the way the dispensationalist crowd mean it is a 19th century concept that has no basis in historical Christianity. It’s an innovation even by Protestant standards. I find it telling that only a minority of Protestants believe in this stuff. And it seems to be a peculiarly American notion at that.

Good point. The film that was supposed to outline the whole dispensationalist system in fact showed how mindless it actually was.

 

[The_Old_Maid]

But anyway, this whole rapture thing in the way the dispensationalist crowd mean it is a 19th century concept that has no basis in historical Christianity. It’s an innovation even by Protestant standards. I find it telling that only a minority of Protestants believe in this stuff. And it seems to be a peculiarly American notion at that.

I think it’s a translational issue. Maybe 90 percent of rapturists are in North America, and of the ones who aren’t, probably 90 percent of those are spread through the British Commonwealth.

Originally posted by adamhovey1988

… quite a few Methodists though.

I’ve also known Methodists who have read the series, but I don’t think it’s a teaching. In fact the majority seem to disagree with it. They may be reading it simply as fiction. (This explains why so many drop the series after Volume 9.)

My personal favorite, so to speak, is #16. It takes a certain cheek to write about life *after *Jesus comes back. To be fair, it is difficult to write an interesting utopia. (No, it isn’t about Eternity. It’s their take on Jesus as an earthly King for a literal 1,000 years.) But I can understand that many readers would stop at #9. (The A.C. rides a giant pig into the Third Temple. After that, there’s not much left to do but wait for the war to end.)

I heard an interesting take on the series that went something like this: “if Catholics believe purgatory is to fit those who weren’t ready to go to Heaven, then the dispensationalist Tribulation is to fit those who weren’t ready to go to Hell.” Like I said, though, the people who believe in dispensationalism would say that’s rather harsh.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

There are two raptures - the churches always taught that the last one will be after the tribulation not before, as reliable teachers still do. John Nelson Darby copied the other idea from a certain Margaret Macdonald. This was in the era of the Rue du Bac and other apparitions.

The first rapture has to be now and is the rapture for service. Our Lord is taking up His bride. Not to gaze at her navel. She is in the last 21 verses of Proverbs.

“Comfort Ye My People, her warfare is ended” - the siege will be over, we can start eating and trading and living productive lives. Trading with the talents. Feeding our fellow servants their rations of solid Scriptures regularly so that we can answer up when he returns from the far country and asks us questions. We shall gain a crown if we like St Paul help others gain a crown. Not beating up on them!

 

[thecolorsblend]

My personal favorite, so to speak, is #16. It takes a certain cheek to write about life *after *Jesus comes back. To be fair, it is difficult to write an interesting utopia. (No, it isn’t about Eternity. It’s their take on Jesus as an earthly King for a literal 1,000 years.) But I can understand that many readers would stop at #9. (The A.C. rides a giant pig into the Third Temple. After that, there’s not much left to do but wait for the war to end.)

Dude, I totally forgot about the giant pig! lol

As to the others, it’s funny how sanitized God’s “ultimate judgment” was in those books. I wasn’t expecting (and did not want) a Saw movie or something but LB is probably the most cleaned up, G-rated “judgment” I could’ve imagined. Except for one or two supporting characters, you almost have to wonder if anybody at all was actually “judged” in all those “judgments”.

Book #16 was strange in that the writers seemed to understand the narrative challenges of telling an interesting story set in a worldwide theocratic utopia led by Our Lord Himself… but decided to try telling a story anyway. Whatever remaining openness I had to pre-millennialism and the entire dispensational model was wiped out with that final book.

If any Catholic attempts to read these books, I ask you to remember these same writers interpret everything from Sacred Scripture in absolutely literal terms… except for St. John 6, St. Matthew 16 and other passages, which are entirely metaphorical. Funny bunch…

 

[The_Old_Maid]

A lot of faceless masses got judged, and often off-screen at that. Of the characters we know, the characters Hattie and Chaim took quite a pounding. In the 40-volume spinoffs for kids, the character Ryan Daley took a pounding. (He was eleven!)

When I first met the books, I didn’t know of any materials that evaluated their content. (I made a post of “what others are saying” so that others would have more information than I had had.)

Here’s a review of #16 by someone who was a huge fan through most of the series … but the more he read, the more his views changed.

As for the Rapture itself, the Churches of Christ (the a capella people, not the sect of a sound-alike name) sent me some chapter-and-verse-documentation: outline here and article here.

 

[JustaServant]

Unfortunately there are many people who still believe this and it prevents them from changing their world because it’s all going to end in a ball of fire anyway. The near-worship of the state of Israel is alarming. Even more alarming is the idea that they are part of a special class of people who will avoid judgement, suffering, and tribulation.
They are quite literally ‘above it all’.
It creates an apathetic view of the world and other people.

 

[adamhovey1988]

Unfortunately there are many people who still believe this and it prevents them from changing their world because it’s all going to end in a ball of fire anyway. The near-worship of the state of Israel is alarming. Even more alarming is the idea that they are part of a special class of people who will avoid judgement, suffering, and tribulation.
They are quite literally ‘above it all’.
It creates an apathetic view of the world and other people.

Whilst I am sympathetic with your views, you may want to be careful with how you say it.

 

[thecolorsblend]

Unfortunately there are many people who still believe this and it prevents them from changing their world because it’s all going to end in a ball of fire anyway. The near-worship of the state of Israel is alarming. Even more alarming is the idea that they are part of a special class of people who will avoid judgement, suffering, and tribulation.
They are quite literally ‘above it all’.
It creates an apathetic view of the world and other people.

Indeed. The really pernicious angle is that it excludes jews from evangelism. Evangelicals would say that salvation does not exist outside of faith in Our Lord and yet their apocalyptic model requires jews to not have faith. If that’s one’s view of end times, how can one rationally justify evangelizing those people?

As to the near-worship of Israel… yes, that is quite alarming too. Most unwelcome.