RCIA last night

[dje101]

You are probably correct and are wise to see thinks this way. Often times, a new pastor comes to a parish, and maybe there are overdue changes needed and people get frustrated that he doesn’t fix everything right away. It is difficult. First of all, it may be very apparent some of the problems to those who have been at the parish a long time, but the pastor still has to get his bearings, so-to-speak. He has to carefully examine everything that is happening, and not rush to judgement. He has to prioritize the changes he finds are necessary. And he has to do things in a very pastoral manner, there may be things that are done wrong, but the lay volunteers are very well meaning and do not realize things are wrong; perhaps they are doing things exactly as they were told and are sincerely trying to do their best. He does not want to alienate these fine people.
So it takes a little time. Yet parishioners, who may be legitimately frustrated with the problems, do not have the patience and are quick to rush to judgement that the new pastor is failing them.

This is true. However, at my parish the opposite is true. He sees some changes that need to be made and, based on what I’ve heard, many people DON’T like or want any changes as they are simply stuck in their ways…

 

[tafan]

This is true. However, at my parish the opposite is true. He sees some changes that need to be made and, based on what I’ve heard, many people DON’T like or want any changes as they are simply stuck in their ways…

Oh yes, I was not clear. Those often outnumber the ones who recognize the needed changes.

 

[dje101]

I do have another question though: during the last class when we were taught that the abortion teaching was only a suggestion, the only clarification on it was me saying “then why does the CCC teach against it?”. Should I speak with one of the teachers and have them actually READ paragraphs 2271&2272 to the class so that they know for certain what the church says on the subject? I don’t want it to appear as though I’m trying to push the subject to be argumentative or to prove something about myself, but I don’t like the idea that the other people walked away with the teacher saying that it was only a suggestion.

 

[anp1215]

I do have another question though: during the last class when we were taught that the abortion teaching was only a suggestion, the only clarification on it was me saying “then why does the CCC teach against it?”. Should I speak with one of the teachers and have them actually READ paragraphs 2271&2272 to the class so that they know for certain what the church says on the subject? I don’t want it to appear as though I’m trying to push the subject to be argumentative or to prove something about myself, but I don’t like the idea that the other people walked away with the teacher saying that it was only a suggestion.

She used the word suggestion? She really said it was only a suggestion?

REALLY???
Lord, have mercy.

You need to see your Pastor ASAP. This is an urgent matter. This woman is putting other souls in jeopardy and slandering the Church with lies. If your pastor does not correct this problem ASAP, you need to speak to the Bishop. Normally, I don’t advocate going over the pastor’s head, but the urgency of this matter really can’t be overstated if she’s saying the things you’re telling us.

 

[steve_b]

I do have another question though: during the last class when we were taught that the abortion teaching was only a suggestion, the only clarification on it was me saying “then why does the CCC teach against it?”. Should I speak with one of the teachers and have them actually READ paragraphs 2271&2272 to the class so that they know for certain what the church says on the subject?* I don’t want it to appear as though I’m trying to push the subject to be argumentative or to prove something about myself, but I don’t like the idea that the other people walked away with the teacher saying that it was only a suggestion*.

Don’t be afraid of correcting someone who is clearly wrong. You have the teachings of the Church in writing and the specific person was going directly opposite to that teaching… Therefore, The class needs to hear the truth. If you need to bring the subject up again at your next class, so that everyone knows what the Church teaches, as opposed to what the “teacher” said, then you have an obligation do it. Look at this as a test. It won’t be the 1st or last time this will happen to you. When you know the faith, speak the truth boldly and with charity. That’s what Peter would do. [1 Pet 3:15]

 

[jwinch2]

Don’t be afraid of correcting someone who is clearly wrong. You have the teachings of the Church in writing and the specific person was going directly opposite to that teaching… Therefore, The class needs to hear the truth. If you need to bring the subject up again at your next class, so that everyone knows what the Church teaches, as opposed to what the “teacher” said, then you have an obligation do it. Look at this as a test. It won’t be the 1st or last time this will happen to you. When you know the faith, speak the truth boldly and with charity. That’s what Peter would do. [1 Pet 3:15]

I agree with this. People going through RCIA have a right to receive the teachings of the Church presented clearly and accurately. Otherwise, how do they know if they are being called? If people are mislead about the Church, they have no idea what the faith is that they are professing.

You can certainly handle it charitably and politely, but I pray that you will find the strength to do it.

Also, if you have not spoken to your pastor as of yet, I hope you will. If you have, and have gotten nowhere, you should go to the bishop asap.

 

[dje101]

Don’t be afraid of correcting someone who is clearly wrong. You have the teachings of the Church in writing and the specific person was going directly opposite to that teaching… Therefore, The class needs to hear the truth. If you need to bring the subject up again at your next class, so that everyone knows what the Church teaches, as opposed to what the “teacher” said, then you have an obligation do it. Look at this as a test. It won’t be the 1st or last time this will happen to you. When you know the faith, speak the truth boldly and with charity. That’s what Peter would do. [1 Pet 3:15]

I agree with this. People going through RCIA have a right to receive the teachings of the Church presented clearly and accurately. Otherwise, how do they know if they are being called? If people are mislead about the Church, they have no idea what the faith is that they are professing.

You can certainly handle it charitably and politely, but I pray that you will find the strength to do it.

Also, if you have not spoken to your pastor as of yet, I hope you will. If you have, and have gotten nowhere, you should go to the bishop asap.

Thank you to both of you for encouraging me to bring this up in the next class. This subject was discussed about 2 weeks ago, but we have not had a class session in which I think it would be a good setting to bring it up. The last class they chose to have us meet in the church and go through the stations of the cross, then they dismissed us. Our next class is tonight, and I think that I think I can work up the courage to bring it up. How would you recommend that I go about doing it though? I don’t want to appear rude, but you are right that the other candidates need to know what the church teaches. What, in your opinion, would be the most effective and charitable way to fix the situation?

 

[jwinch2]

How would you recommend that I go about doing it though? I don’t want to appear rude, but you are right that the other candidates need to know what the church teaches. What, in your opinion, would be the most effective and charitable way to fix the situation?

I think I would approach the instructor and ask if you may ask some follow-on questions about a previous class. I would state that the class led you to do some additional reading on the topic outside of class and that you would like to get some clarification. In my opinion, it is a bad idea to just blindside someone with that sort of thing and it is almost sure to put them on the defensive. If they are not open to the idea, then I am not sure what to tell you except that it is time to take things to the next level of oversight.

As I stated earlier, if you have already gone to the pastor with no result, you need to go to the diocese.

Peace of Christ,

 

[bookgirl32]

All I want to know is how you guys got Nancy Pelosi to teach your RCIA class?

 

[Hat4]

All I want to know is how you guys got Nancy Pelosi to teach your RCIA class?

That was awesome, funniest thing I’ve heard all day. I’ve been through three RCIA classes and they gave out a CCC in every one.

 

[dje101]

All I want to know is how you guys got Nancy Pelosi to teach your RCIA class?

I totally did not expect this and it made me laugh SO loud!! This is probably the funniest thing I’ve read/heard all day long!

 

[dje101]

That was awesome, funniest thing I’ve heard all day. I’ve been through three RCIA classes and they gave out a CCC in every one.

Yeah, not this class. I am the only one that brings a CCC because I bought it in January of 2010. The only other person that brings one is one of the teachers, and he has only taught one or two classes. We were given a NAB and “Believing in Jesus: A Popular Overview of the Catholic Faith”.

 

[jwinch2]

Yeah, not this class. I am the only one that brings a CCC because I bought it in January of 2010. The only other person that brings one is one of the teachers, and he has only taught one or two classes. We were given a NAB and “Believing in Jesus: A Popular Overview of the Catholic Faith”.

Remember, whether or not the RCIA group gives out a CCC is not a representation of the orthodoxy of the teachings. Many parishes use other books, or use handouts which are perfectly authentic in their teachings. The Diocese of Fort Worth from what I remember seeing uses a book written by the bishop. The parish where my wife and I went through RCIA had a subscription to a company which provided handouts which were cheaper in cost then the CCC.

For example, here is a handout we were given in our parish regarding the issue you had problems with in yours.

Peace,

 

[bookgirl32]

I totally did not expect this and it made me laugh SO loud!! This is probably the funniest thing I’ve read/heard all day long!

 

[steve_b]

Our next class is tonight, and I think that I think I can work up the courage to bring it up. How would you recommend that I go about doing it though? I don’t want to appear rude, but you are right that the other candidates need to know what the church teaches. What, in your opinion, would be the most effective and charitable way to fix the situation?

jwinch2 gave good advice.

If she won’t use this as a moment to correct her wrong teaching, no matter how she does it, and in effect ignores you, then when you go to the pastor, say she refuses to correct her error when clearly shown she is wrong using the CCC, and ask for her immediate removal.

 

[dje101]

Update. It just keeps getting better and better.

So after our scrutiny on Sunday, she told us that those who are baptized need to go to confession prior to Easter Vigil and those who haven’t been baptized don’t need to go to confession. I raised my hand and said “from what I’ve read, if we haven’t been baptized then we can’t go to confession.”. She said “no you can go, you just don’t have to because you will be getting baptized.”. So I brought it up in another thread, got the appropriate paragraph to correct her, then brought it up to a different teacher last night, who informed me that Father was teaching that night on confession and it would be a good time to bring it up.

At the end of the class when Father was wrapping things up, I asked if those who are not baptized can go to confession. I did not do this privately, I raised my hand and he answered in front of the whole class. Within a matter of minutes, after we did our closing prayers, the RCIA teacher in question reminded everyone that we have a reconciliation mass coming up on Wednesday and that “it would be a good time to go to confession for those who have been baptized, but those who had not been baptized have a choice as to wither or not they want to go.”. Father had not even left the room and she was already contradicting what he had said.

The whole class corrected her, and I was simply in shock that within minutes of Father clearly saying that the unbaptized could not, she says the exact opposite. And even then , after the class corrected her, she reaffirmed that we could 2 more times until a teacher had to directly get her attention and say “NO they CANNOT go to confession”.

I cannot wait until this class is over with, primarily so I can accept the Eucharist but secondarily because I’m tired of hearing her contradict Church teaching.

 

[jwinch2]

Update. It just keeps getting better and better.

So after our scrutiny on Sunday, she told us that those who are baptized need to go to confession prior to Easter Vigil and those who haven’t been baptized don’t need to go to confession. I raised my hand and said “from what I’ve read, if we haven’t been baptized then we can’t go to confession.”. She said “no you can go, you just don’t have to because you will be getting baptized.”. So I brought it up in another thread, got the appropriate paragraph to correct her, then brought it up to a different teacher last night, who informed me that Father was teaching that night on confession and it would be a good time to bring it up.

At the end of the class when Father was wrapping things up, I asked if those who are not baptized can go to confession. I did not do this privately, I raised my hand and he answered in front of the whole class. Within a matter of minutes, after we did our closing prayers, the RCIA teacher in question reminded everyone that we have a reconciliation mass coming up on Wednesday and that “it would be a good time to go to confession for those who have been baptized, but those who had not been baptized have a choice as to wither or not they want to go.”. Father had not even left the room and she was already contradicting what he had said.

The whole class corrected her, and I was simply in shock that within minutes of Father clearly saying that the unbaptized could not, she says the exact opposite. And even then , after the class corrected her, she reaffirmed that we could 2 more times until a teacher had to directly get her attention and say “NO they CANNOT go to confession”.

I cannot wait until this class is over with, primarily so I can accept the Eucharist but secondarily because I’m tired of hearing her contradict Church teaching.

Go to the bishop. Do not wait any longer.

 

[dje101]

Go to the bishop. Do not wait any longer.

I’m kind of hesitant to do that because a) I’ve already spoken with the pastor and he said that he said he will be fixing the program by revamping the curriculum and probably getting a new team in there (he said this to another RCIA member as well) and b) we are virtually at the end of RCIA. If we were only a month in and the pastor was waiting until next year to do anything then I’d definitely go to the Bishop.

 

[sw85]

Go to the bishop. Do not wait any longer.

I’m torn on this. On the one hand, going over the priest’s head is probably not a good idea. On the other hand, the priest isn’t doing anything about the issue. On the third hand, our friend dje101 is doing a good job containing the damage this teacher is doing. It’s not a position he should have to be in, though.

My advice (which is possibly meritless) would be to continue keeping your priest apprised of the situation so that he may have as much ammunition as possible with which to confront this teacher when he makes changes to the program. If, and only if, he appears to be making no serious efforts in this regard would I confront him about it; and only then would I go to the bishop.

 

[jwinch2]

I’m kind of hesitant to do that because a) I’ve already spoken with the pastor and he said that he said he will be fixing the program by revamping the curriculum and probably getting a new team in there (he said this to another RCIA member as well) and b) we are virtually at the end of RCIA. If we were only a month in and the pastor was waiting until next year to do anything then I’d definitely go to the Bishop.

I understand. However, you will still have the Mystagogy period after Easter Vigil which is very important. During that time, you will really be diving into the sacraments in a deeper way and a great deal of harm can be done if that information is not taught in an orthodox way. Its also more subjective in the manner it is presented and harder for new Catholics to pick up on potential mistakes.

You will obviously have to follow your own conscience. However, if your pastor knows that there is a problem and has not stepped in to fix it sooner, I find that very concerning. At the very least, he should have pulled the RCIA team in and directed them to catechize properly and then followed up to be sure it was happening. With all of that in mind, I think you should either A) speak to the pastor again; or, B) contact your diocese.