RCIA whining

[coachdennis]

Christian communities are also often very dangerous places. Especially if your past contains things that people would rather pretend don’t exist.

Christianity is seen by some as “dangerous” because it challenges the norms of our society and can call us to radically change our lives

It sounds to me there are other issues here than just a simplistic RCIA program. Quite honestly, I have no clue what you are trying to say nor is it any of my business. It would be best to discuss these issues privately with the priest and what if anything can be worked out in your situation.

 

[DarkLight]

Christianity is seen by some as “dangerous” because it challenges the norms of our society and can call us to radically change our lives

It sounds to me there are other issues here than just a simplistic RCIA program. Quite honestly, I have no clue what you are trying to say nor is it any of my business. It would be best to discuss these issues privately with the priest and what if anything can be worked out in your situation.

Sometimes. But most of the dangers I am worried about are from people who would rather use religion to give simplistic answers. My own story cannot be told without discussing abuse, much of it covered by supposedly “Christian” values, and the resulting battle with mental illness. I’ve found a lot of people would prefer to give simple Christianese answers that don’t require them to actually deal with what’s out in the world. Far too often this plays out by blaming the person reporting it.

 

[clem456]

"RCIA is not just about “learning,” but about becoming part of a community of believers. It is discovering how what you have learned makes a difference in your life. It is about being involved in parish life, getting to know the people and sharing your faith."
Yes. At our parish it’s also a bonding process with the other catechumens/ candidates, the sponsors, the teacher(s), Catholics there just to refresh, etc. “Class” really starts about 15 minutes early with people talking and sharing snacky food they bring. Then after class there’s another 10 minutes of schmoozing.

Bingo!
There should be Church bells pealing and choirs singing.

RCIA is not simply a program of doctrine, it is a process, the RCIA -process-. It is a process of developing a personal realtionship with Jesus Christ through His Catholic Church, it’s doctrines, Traditions, AND the witness and fellowship of the Mystical Body of Christ.

I really am surprised to hear someone say the basic concepts they were presented are beneath their level of knowing. The Trinity for example, reams of books are written about it, and if the topic is discussed with other Christians at formation meetings, many different manifestations of the Trinity are uncovered in people’s lives. In other words, you discover the reality of the Trinity through the witness of other Christians, not simply through memorizing the concept. The word Catholic necessitates -others-, we are not Catholic in a doctrinal vacuum.

Perhaps that’s the reason Paul was sent blind and helpless to Ananius???::

 

[kkollwitz]

I should add that the social time before & after class is a chance for the more knowledgeable to be a help to those who may hardly know a thing except that they want to be Catholic.

 

[nickybr38]

So I had my first talk with the RCIA director yesterday. I don’t so far have any major issues, just…the program seems so stupid!

(1) We’re using the YouCat book as the primary text. I mean, it’s a nice little book and all, but it’s still a kid’s catechism. I read through it already, it’s got a lot of basic points but doesn’t really do any work to explain them.

(2) The director seems to assume that people coming in had absolutely no grasp of the sacraments or what was going on. I find this odd - why would I start RCIA if I didn’t know the theology already?

(3) The few times I did try to ask a question, I got the baby “well we think baptism is very important” type of answers. I know it’s important, that’s why I was asking!

I know I have to go through it, but…ugh. I’d like somewhere to go where I can get real answers, not stuff that’s suitable for 12 year old children.

Been there.
Done that.
A lot of people are going to tell you you’re being ridiculous but there’s NOTHING WRONG with wanting some real food as opposed to baby food.

RCIA should not be one size fits all.

I would ask; who are you sharing the class with? There may be many in the class who are NOT as ready for the advanced stuff as you seem to be.

I encourage you to study on your own, on the side. Go to the classes. You’ll learn a lot about patience there. It’ll be good even if it doesn’t seem like it. Learn to control your irritation! This is the perfect opportunity because I guarantee they’re just going to irritate and frustrate you even more as time goes on.

And finally try to find someone within the parish who is willing to dig deeper with you. Perhaps you could ask the priest or RCIA director?

“I feel I need a bit deeper theology. Is there someone who might be willing to dig deeper with me? Because our RCIA discussions are all right but they really aren’t digging as deep as I’d like to go.”

 

[nickybr38]

Furthermore, are you converting from Protestantism?

I think us former Protestants struggle especially hard with these things because to us any sort of Church teaching or Bible Studies are about hard facts and Scripture, not feelings. We seek fellowship at church, during and after the service, we don’t seek in studies.

At all the Catholic bible studies I’ve been to it’s all been about how we FEEL about Scripture. There is rarely any discussion that focuses on intellect. Mind you, that’s just in MY parish.

Anyway, I think a lot of Protestant converts come in wanting to grow in FAITH and wanting to LEARN. They’re not as interested in the social aspect. Whereas Catholic reverts and/or cradle Catholics seem to be more focused on the community aspect.

Just saying I think this is where the frustration comes in. Expectations and experience have taught us to value different things so RCIA, if it is NOT intellectually based, ends up being a huge disappointment.

Edited to Add: AND most converts from Protestantism who come to RCIA on their own have ALREADY gone through the spiritual journey. Usually they’re hungry for FOOD (intellectual) by the time they reach RCIA. For me I went through all the spiritual stuff a year before I ever signed up for RCIA.

So it was kind of annoying to have to discuss how warm God makes us feel and how nice Jesus was to us.

 

[iloveangels]

… There are other ways to learn. The import is that we learn, not that we attend a class.

This is really up to the parish to decide, not you.

 

[iloveangels]

Christian communities are also often very dangerous places. Especially if your past contains things that people would rather pretend don’t exist.

This is an interesting, and not very appropriate, comment for someone hoping to come into the church. You seem to have lot of fear or something going on.

I see why you’re having a bit of conflict with the RCIA director. I’d be wondering about your situation too, if I were her. Have you sat down and talked with her about this? You really should. Maybe it would help.

 

[DarkLight]

Furthermore, are you converting from Protestantism?

I think us former Protestants struggle especially hard with these things because to us any sort of Church teaching or Bible Studies are about hard facts and Scripture, not feelings. We seek fellowship at church, during and after the service, we don’t seek in studies.

At all the Catholic bible studies I’ve been to it’s all been about how we FEEL about Scripture. There is rarely any discussion that focuses on intellect. Mind you, that’s just in MY parish.

Anyway, I think a lot of Protestant converts come in wanting to grow in FAITH and wanting to LEARN. They’re not as interested in the social aspect. Whereas Catholic reverts and/or cradle Catholics seem to be more focused on the community aspect.

Just saying I think this is where the frustration comes in. Expectations and experience have taught us to value different things so RCIA, if it is NOT intellectually based, ends up being a huge disappointment.

Edited to Add: AND most converts from Protestantism who come to RCIA on their own have ALREADY gone through the spiritual journey. Usually they’re hungry for FOOD (intellectual) by the time they reach RCIA. For me I went through all the spiritual stuff a year before I ever signed up for RCIA.

So it was kind of annoying to have to discuss how warm God makes us feel and how nice Jesus was to us.

Converting from atheism, actually, though I have a Protestant background. It sort of reminds me of the youth group stuff we were subjected to as teens. Learning the basics, over and over again…someone mentioned the trinity. Well, we’d talk about the trinity, but it never went beyond very basic. We believe that there’s one God with three Persons. Ok, lesson over, moving on.

Like I mentioned, I’m very wary of sharing feelings and past experiences. I wish I were making this up, but…I’ve faced a lot of blame for things that weren’t my fault, and a lot of people who would prefer to examine my behavior for any “sin” they can find rather than face that, sometimes, we get hurt because of other people’s sins. My story is inseparable from abuse - abuse that was justified by appeals to modesty and proper roles for women. A lot of people don’t like to hear that, because all they hear is someone challenging “modesty”.

This is really up to the parish to decide, not you.

That was just about the comparison between missing RCIA and missing Mass.

 

[iloveangels]

Converting from atheism, actually, though I have a Protestant background. It sort of reminds me of the youth group stuff we were subjected to as teens. Learning the basics, over and over again…someone mentioned the trinity. Well, we’d talk about the trinity, but it never went beyond very basic. We believe that there’s one God with three Persons. Ok, lesson over, moving on.

Like I mentioned, I’m very wary of sharing feelings and past experiences. I wish I were making this up, but…I’ve faced a lot of blame for things that weren’t my fault, and a lot of people who would prefer to examine my behavior for any “sin” they can find rather than face that, sometimes, we get hurt because of other people’s sins. My story is inseparable from abuse - abuse that was justified by appeals to modesty and proper roles for women. A lot of people don’t like to hear that, because all they hear is someone challenging “modesty”.

Talk to your RCIA director. You can’t bring yourself into the church by yourself. That’s not how it works.

That was just about the comparison between missing RCIA and missing Mass.

And that’s what I was addressing, DarkLight. It’s up to the parish, meaning the RCIA director and the priest, whether you can skip RCIA sessions or not. It’s not your call.

 

[DarkLight]

Talk to your RCIA director. You can’t bring yourself into the church by yourself. That’s not how it works.

And that’s what I was addressing, DarkLight. It’s up to the parish, meaning the RCIA director and the priest, whether you can skip RCIA sessions or not. It’s not your call.

Erm…I did already? That was way back in the thread. I don’t even know how my not attending the first bit of the sessions because I, you know, can’t make it became a major topic here.

 

[DarkLight]

One other thing…yes, I do carry and hold fear. It may be difficult to understand but - I saw Christians that I loved and trusted choose to blame the victim of abuse because it was easier than admitting that their “moral” rules couldn’t protect them. That’s what happened to my first investigation into catholicism - I had to cut it off because there was only one church that I could get to and I couldn’t keep going back and facing that man. I’ve had problems happen again because I didn’t get over it on someone’s time frame and they couldn’t be bothered. Fear is part of the legacy of that. I’m not afraid of God, but I’ve learned to be afraid of people, especially people who want to go on about what He expects.

 

[solayan]

Something you might want to address either with the RCIA director or your priest (if you haven’t already) is your discomfort with sharing too much personal stuff (obviously without going into too much detail). You shouldn’t have to bare your soul to the group in order to participate in RCIA.

In the RCIA group I’m helping to run we have some pretty clear ground rules for sharing. Everyone should have the opportunity to share, but nobody should be put on the spot or feel like they have to share if they don’t want to, especially if we’re talking about things that may be personal. I’m not anybody’s confessor and I have no need, desire, or right to know their deep dark secrets. These should be basic ground rules for adult education and adult faith formation.

While we try to tailor the instructional part of RCIA to our individual participants, I’m sure there will be times we’re covering information that is old hat to some people and brand new to others.

I would try to be as patient as you can if you find there’s not really any new material being presented, and who knows, maybe it will help you see things you already know about in a new light or from a new perspective. I know that’s been my experience in the past with groups I’ve been a part of.

 

[nickybr38]

One other thing…yes, I do carry and hold fear. It may be difficult to understand but - I saw Christians that I loved and trusted choose to blame the victim of abuse because it was easier than admitting that their “moral” rules couldn’t protect them. That’s what happened to my first investigation into catholicism - I had to cut it off because there was only one church that I could get to and I couldn’t keep going back and facing that man. I’ve had problems happen again because I didn’t get over it on someone’s time frame and they couldn’t be bothered. Fear is part of the legacy of that. I’m not afraid of God, but I’ve learned to be afraid of people, especially people who want to go on about what He expects.

During our RCIA class they pushed and pushed for personal stories until my cousin cracked and told them straight up that she’d been sexually abused by her father for years.

The end result was a complete and total awkward silence. NO ONE KNEW WHAT TO SAY.

Well don’t push so hard for personal if you can’t handle the aftermath.

After that my cousin didn’t want to go anymore.

I suggest you just keep your private problems to yourself. There will come a time when you go to confession and at that point you can speak to the priest. He will NOT judge you. He just won’t. He will forgive you for whatever part you may have played and/or he can clarify if your action was sinful. But these people at RCIA have no right to your life experiences unless you choose to share those experiences. No matter how hard they push, don’t let them bully you into sharing things you’re not ready to share.

 

[kkollwitz]

“…most converts from Protestantism who come to RCIA on their own have ALREADY gone through the spiritual journey. Usually they’re hungry for FOOD (intellectual) by the time they reach RCIA”

That was my experience when I was teaching RCIA about 10 years ago. The Bible had got them into RCIA; and they wanted Bible-based Catechesis.

 

[DarkLight]

“…most converts from Protestantism who come to RCIA on their own have ALREADY gone through the spiritual journey. Usually they’re hungry for FOOD (intellectual) by the time they reach RCIA”

That was my experience when I was teaching RCIA about 10 years ago. The Bible had got them into RCIA; and they wanted Bible-based Catechesis.

At least some Bible-based stuff would be helpful. I know the Catholic and Protestant churches view the Bible somewhat differently, but there’s a lot of things that I was taught as “just obviously what the Bible says” and then come to find that there’s a totally different view on how that passage is interpreted.

My other big issue is that I have trouble with understanding the concepts of infallibility and the dogmas. A lot of the common presentations seem very unclear - e.g. exactly what the metaphysical concepts in the dogma of transubstantiation are, as opposed to various popular explanations of transubstantiation.

 

[clem456]

At least some Bible-based stuff would be helpful. I know the Catholic and Protestant churches view the Bible somewhat differently, but there’s a lot of things that I was taught as “just obviously what the Bible says” and then come to find that there’s a totally different view on how that passage is interpreted.

My other big issue is that I have trouble with understanding the concepts of infallibility and the dogmas. A lot of the common presentations seem very unclear - e.g. exactly what the metaphysical concepts in the dogma of transubstantiation are, as opposed to various popular explanations of transubstantiation.

The Vatican website is a goldmine of info that you can peruse on your own time.
Here is a section on the Eucharist.
vatican.va/roman_curia/synod/documents/rc_synod_doc_20040528_lineamenta-xi-assembly_en.html

 

[CB_Catholic]

At least some Bible-based stuff would be helpful. I know the Catholic and Protestant churches view the Bible somewhat differently, but there’s a lot of things that I was taught as “just obviously what the Bible says” and then come to find that there’s a totally different view on how that passage is interpreted.

My other big issue is that I have trouble with understanding the concepts of infallibility and the dogmas. A lot of the common presentations seem very unclear - e.g. exactly what the metaphysical concepts in the dogma of transubstantiation are, as opposed to various popular explanations of transubstantiation.

Your last paragraph is entirely too deep for RCIA. That is not the purpose of it. RCIA is not a theology course, and most definitely is not a course in metaphysics. It is an introductory course to Catholicism, and prepares catechumens for Baptism.

Perhaps you might enroll in some online University courses to satisfy your quest for knowledge. But to enter the Church you are just going to have to quit complaining about it and suffer through RCIA, unless you can find a priest to instruct you privately. But be forewarned–he may not be able to answer your questions either.

 

[nickybr38]

Your last paragraph is entirely too deep for RCIA. That is not the purpose of it. RCIA is not a theology course, and most definitely is not a course in metaphysics. It is an introductory course to Catholicism, and prepares catechumens for Baptism.

Perhaps you might enroll in some online University courses to satisfy your quest for knowledge. But to enter the Church you are just going to have to quit complaining about it and suffer through RCIA, unless you can find a priest to instruct you privately. But be forewarned–he may not be able to answer your questions either.

An introductory course to Catholicism that never explains what the Eucharist truly is? Huh… weird.

Isn’t the Eucharist the height and summit of our faith?

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

An introductory course to Catholicism that never explains what the Eucharist truly is? Huh… weird.

Isn’t the Eucharist the height and summit of our faith?

There’s a big difference between explaining Christ’s presence in the Eucharist, and what the OP said:

My other big issue is that I have trouble with understanding the concepts of infallibility and the dogmas. A lot of the common presentations seem very unclear - e.g. exactly what the metaphysical concepts in the dogma of transubstantiation are, as opposed to various popular explanations of transubstantiation.

Metaphysical concepts? You’ve got to be kidding!

I stress at various times that we believe in the Real Presence in the Eucharist. We might be talking about forms of prayer and use Eucharistic adoration as an example. And I’m asking “Why do we adore the Eucharist? What’s special about it? Are we adoring a piece of bread?” Later we may talk about entering the Blessed Sacrament Chapel in our parish and I’m asking “Why are we reverent in there? What does the candle mean? Why do we genuflect when we enter/” And what I’m hoping for is that if they hear enough times that Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist, the idea will sink in.

There may be people who have studied theology and are knowledgeable about things. Those aren’t the people I meet in RCIA!