RCIA's Killing Me

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ramalama
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I did RCIA with my wife and my son…does that mean I became Catholic THREE times ? :eek:

Actually, I encourage it for any Catholic, at least once. It’s a great “brush up” tool.
 
You have to talk to the Priest make sure he knows what is being taught in the RCIA classes. I think after you know his opinion and what if any actions he is going to take then you can make a decision on finding another Parish to which to learn the true Faith of the Church.

Though the Church is protected from error each parish is not and can become corrupt.😦 .
 
newbetx said:
BINGO! IMHO… If it seems inapropriate. try to fix it first. Amazing if an RCIA candidate has to point such things out to the parish RE director… Doh! You’re the sponsor, aren’t you? Sorry, one of those days that there is never enough caffiene. 🤷
Click to expand...
You’ve had enough caffeine. I’m a candidate. I was alerted to problems when the nun running the class handed out a paraphrased 23 Psalm. Apparently David’s version wasn’t good enough for her.

After that one of the leaders said baptism was for welcoming people to the community, not for forgiveness of original sin. For some reason saying “. . . believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins”, hadn’t registered with him.

A couple weeks later the same leader, in response to one of my questions, said, “Yes, there are venal and mortal sins, but they don’t like us to talk about the distinction much anymore.”

Thank you all for reminding me I’m one of the sane ones!
 
Ramalama - you’ve reported a very sad situation.

Chittister is borderline in every way. I don’t believe there are many parishes that would use her materials although in your locale, she might be “popular.” If popular in your location, you might want to “skip the small steps” and turn to the Diocesan office that handles Evangelization. Call or write and ask those officials where you can find normal RCIA programs.

I can hardly imagine that any parish would choose to support her “teachings.” How totally sad and bizarre. You can thank Our Lord for protecting you from such bad teachings in advance. God bless you and prayers for you too.
 
Ramalama said:
You’ve had enough caffeine. I’m a candidate. I was alerted to problems when the nun running the class handed out a paraphrased 23 Psalm. Apparently David’s version wasn’t good enough for her.

After that one of the leaders said baptism was for welcoming people to the community, not for forgiveness of original sin. For some reason saying “. . . believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins”, hadn’t registered with him.

A couple weeks later the same leader, in response to one of my questions, said, “Yes, there are venal and mortal sins, but they don’t like us to talk about the distinction much anymore.”

Thank you all for reminding me I’m one of the sane ones!
Click to expand...
OK, now you are getting my ire up…

What does your sponsor think of this?

And where in the mid-west are you? (I’m originally from Illinois)

What makes me mad…
Well, I’ve got to admit, I may have missed things or forgotten or not understood properly everyting tought in RCIA but it irks me that people here post bad things about RCIA Catholics. I really did not want to believe that this kind of thing is going on there… So now that YOU, a candidate, is pointing this out. I am OUTRAGED… Not only are they dimminishing you, they are doing it to us all. This is not acceptable in my book.

I found my original (1988) RCIA book the other day… I think I’ll go back and read through it. I may send you copies. YOU may have to take over your class to make sure the others are tought properly… up for the challenge?😉
 
I feel your pain. Believe it or not use of the catechism is highly controversial in some parishes. When I went through RCIA we never touched one. I of course got one for myself. I surely wasn’t going to walk into the emotional nuclear bomb my conversion was going to cause with my family and not be sure about what I was doing.

I spoke once with one of my RCIA leaders and asked why they were so reluctant to teach Catholic doctrine. The answer I got was that they thought it might scare away people, This blew my mind. First off isn’t worse to bring someone into the Church where eventually they’ll get ambushed by the truth? That’s almost the way cults work. Bait and switch.

Secondly, I’ve had a hard time trying to absorb how that making us sound more worldly and/or protestant is going to encourage people to join who obviously are trying to get away from the world or the religion they brought up in. Hence they’re at RCIA. When they start doing this waffling “follow your conscience” stuff I’m like “look I left a church where we did that all the time. I’m here to get away from that Christianity my way mindset.”
 
Ramalama said:
  1. Law grows, law changes. “It is when we teach laws as inflexible, rigid, and absolute that the law is destroyed.”
Click to expand...
So ask 'em if THAT law is absolute and inflexible, or can IT too allow for exceptions 😃
 
Rolltide said:
Well, on point #1, they may well be arguing that the death penalty is acceptable in some circumstances (an opinion that the Vatican has affirmed if keeping the prisoner alive may pose a grave risk to society). Also, killing in self-defense is allowed if there is absolutely no other choice. It may be situations like this that the author is trying to illustrate, although since I haven’t read the book, it’s tough to tell.

As for the other two points, they seem a bit sketchy to me.
Click to expand...
Point # 2: outside of the Church there is no salvation. I think the way we are taught by our Holy Father to understand this is a bit different from how it was understood 5 centuries ago, although the meaning of the statement has not changed–only the way we understand it.
 
Brendan said:
Actually, Cardinal Maida has prohibited her from speaking on Church property in Detroit as well. 👍
Click to expand...
Really???

Perhaps the “Elephants in the Living Room” are meeting off of Church property or in some other diocese. They like to invite Sr. Chittister to their “Education Meetings”. She spoke at St. Martha in Dearborn in 2006 (pasted from a word document off of their site, which is rather buggy and loaded with non-html docs.

Perhaps he banned her after that, or perhaps the Elephants were undermining his authority on the matter, or unaware of the ban.

Education
v Joan Chittester, OSB will be the featured speaker…
· The subject will be Women in the Church.
· The date and time are: April 3, 2006 at 1:00 PM
· The location is St. Martha, Dearborn.
 
I came back to the church after an unfortunate hiatus. My wife went through RCIA, and I attended with her. Ours was abysmal, too. I’ve heard RCIA compared to a penance you go through to enter the Church.

Our catechists said things like:
  1. “Divorce is really OK because sometimes it’s the best choice.” (many catechists were divorced),
  2. when asked how you know a sin is mortal, “You’ll just know.”
  3. “I like to think all people go to heaven somehow.”
  4. “Some people are born in different circumstances and raised differently. You can’t expect anything out of them - the bad things they do aren’t sinful.” (Doesn’t that directly contradict their dignity & free will?)
  5. Priest: “If you’re doing what your conscience dictates, you’ll go to heaven.”
    Catechumen: “So suicide bombers go to heaven because they’re following the dictates of their consciences?”
    Priest: “… Yes.”
Read the Catechism. It’s a bit rough going at times, but it will answer most of your questions.
 
I came back to the church after an unfortunate hiatus. My wife went through RCIA, and I attended with her. Ours was abysmal, too. I’ve heard RCIA compared to a penance you go through to enter the Church. Well, it’s not supposed to be easy… but really…

Our catechists said things like:
  1. “Divorce is really OK because sometimes it’s the best choice.” (many catechists were divorced), Yes… you’d think that they’d frame this in a way that says “it’s forgivable.” I’m not sure, but isn’t impossible to join the church if your previous marriage is not able to be nullified? That should be made clear up front.
  2. when asked how you know a sin is mortal, “You’ll just know.” Isn’t there some truth to this? You have to know you are sinning? I’ve seen the list an it’s still confusing… even to me to this day.
  3. “I like to think all people go to heaven somehow.” yikes! We’d all like to think this… but that isn’t the way it works. Eventhough we (through the fatima prayer) disire this.
  4. “Some people are born in different circumstances and raised differently. You can’t expect anything out of them - the bad things they do aren’t sinful.” (Doesn’t that directly contradict their dignity & free will?) Ignorance DOES play a role.
  5. Priest: “If you’re doing what your conscience dictates, you’ll go to heaven.” Interesting…
    Catechumen: “So suicide bombers go to heaven because they’re following the dictates of their consciences?”
    Priest: “… Yes.” (:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: ) This must be that thing we see debated… Can a non-Catholic go to heaven? I’ll have to dig into that more.
Read the Catechism. It’s a bit rough going at times, but it will answer most of your questions.(👍 )

Sigh! I guess my concern is that while many statements above are “truish”, and I agree we shouldn’t be beating many who were never exposed to the Truth with it, preparation for joining the Church shouldn’t be sugar coated. I guess I can see now the RCIA MAY be watered down so that we can bring them to the desire to join and follow the Church as the overwhelming set of rules and culture changes required comes eventually. The Church is patient… I keep going back to that. But we may be relying on that fact too much.

Ramalama… how was your Rite of Election?
 
  1. when asked how you know a sin is mortal, “You’ll just know.” Isn’t there some truth to this? You have to know you are sinning? I’ve seen the list an it’s still confusing… even to me to this day. Yes, there’s some truth to this, but they could have been a bit more helpful. They seemed bent on avoiding admitting that anything could be a mortal sin. Basically the catechism tells what is grave matter and that if you commit a grave sin with full knowledge and consent, you’ve committed mortal sin. It’s not that hard if you just read. I’d have thought they’d have done that before teaching.
  2. “Some people are born in different circumstances and raised differently. You can’t expect anything out of them - the bad things they do aren’t sinful.” (Doesn’t that directly contradict their dignity & free will?) Ignorance DOES play a role. Yes, ignorance plays a role, but they seemed to think that people in bad circumstances or with a bad upbringing actually can’t be taught the difference between right and wrong, and if they could, you couldn’t hold them accountable for their actions. I begged to differ there.
  3. Priest: “If you’re doing what your conscience dictates, you’ll go to heaven.” Interesting…
    Catechumen: “So suicide bombers go to heaven because they’re following the dictates of their consciences?”
    Priest: “… Yes.” (:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: ) This must be that thing we see debated… Can a non-Catholic go to heaven? I’ll have to dig into that more. See the Catechism, 846-848.
Read the Catechism. It’s a bit rough going at times, but it will answer most of your questions.(👍 )

Sigh! I guess my concern is that while many statements above are “truish”, and I agree we shouldn’t be beating many who were never exposed to the Truth with it, preparation for joining the Church shouldn’t be sugar coated. I guess I can see now the RCIA MAY be watered down so that we can bring them to the desire to join and follow the Church as the overwhelming set of rules and culture changes required comes eventually. The Church is patient… I keep going back to that. But we may be relying on that fact too much.

RCIA takes a year. I figure they can tell it like it is and explain it so it makes sense. Again, without sugar coating OR beating on the head. Since the ideal end of RCIA is baptism and election, I figure you’re doing a disservice if you don’t tell the whole truth as best you can.
 
Lhhs said:
You don’t have to do RCIA
I didn’t do RCIA

It may take some asking around (and them some more ) but you can also do private prep one-on-one with a willing priest.

Perhaps you’d be willing to do that ? 🤷
Click to expand...
I didn’t do RCIA, either, my work schedule was so erratic. Father W. worked with me on meeting times, and I did my instructions one-on-one with him. God bless Father W. :gopray2:
 
newbetx said:
Our catechists said things like:
  1. “Divorce is really OK because sometimes it’s the best choice.” (many catechists were divorced), Yes… you’d think that they’d frame this in a way that says “it’s forgivable.” I’m not sure, but isn’t impossible to join the church if your previous marriage is not able to be nullified? That should be made clear up front.
Click to expand...
newbetx - with absoultely NO offense to you (in fact, WELCOME to the Church!), the above is like the misunderstanding that NEVER dies.

In truth - someone who was married in a valid marriage (as applicable to many if not most Christian marriages) and then divorced and then re-married - is not allowed to receive the Sacraments while living with the “new” (second) spouse unless/until an annulment of that first marriage has been granted by the Church. In other words, “co-habiting” would have to stop.

The easiest way to say it, to teach it, is that the Catholic Church does NOT recognize any re-marriage that follows a divorce - unless/until that first spouse has died or an annulment has been sought and GRANTED by the Church.

The major issue arises when one divorces and then attempts a second marriage. Hope I haven’t confused you any more.

God bless you.
 
  1. Scholars cannot agree whether Thou Shall Not Kill, means you shouldn’t kill or you shouldn’t murder. (I thought it was pretty well worked out.)
Click to expand...
I guess examples would be Just War as well. C.S.Lewis also touches on this subject.
  1. Law grows, law changes. “It is when we teach laws as inflexible, rigid, and absolute that the law is destroyed.”
Click to expand...
Heresy.
3)"We are inclined to forget that the commandments as we know them are simply guidelines . . . "
Click to expand...
Even worse heresy.
 
Re: RCIA’s Killing Me

LOL! :rotfl: I know the feeling. I try to correct stuff like that when it comes up in class, but there’s only so much I can do without running afoul of the “opinions are facts, facts are opinions” rule.

Still it’s been helpful practice learning how to covertly steer group-think into orthodoxy.

[SIGN]Hang in there![/SIGN]
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top