Reading Circle: Fr. Groeschel's The Virtue Driven Life

[crosstimbers]

Another knitter/convert checking in! Well and almost-convert…I’m in RCIA and moving that way. I’m also a librarian so this is right up my (proverbial) alley. I’ll have to order the book also. This will be fun!

 

[crosstimbers]

My book should be here by Friday.

 

[jknits]

Another knitter/convert checking in! Well and almost-convert…I’m in RCIA and moving that way. I’m also a librarian so this is right up my (proverbial) alley. I’ll have to order the book also. This will be fun!

First off, congrats on your conversion! It’s exciting, isn’t it?

Secondly, you have one of my dream jobs. haha Working around books all day would be just beautiful.

 

[Joan1969]

Welcome, Crosstimbers! Both to this thread and to the Church

Perhaps we knitters can start a knitting thread in some other spot on this forum. It’s so nice when you can exchange with people who share several things in common with you!

Joan

 

[st_lucy]

I also will join. If that is okay.

 

[homewardangel]

Hi

I enjoy reading Fr. Groeschel’s books and have read a few. I usually do close the books with some new nuggets of knowlege.

I am going to enjoy reading everyone’s thoughts on this new book. I don’t know if I will comment or not - I like to learn and listen more than I like to be the one talking. I haven’t read it yet - but I am going to run up town at lunch and see if the local store has it. There is only 1 person that I know who is a spiritual reader and we try to exchange thoughts - but since we don’t work together any more its become difficult to do this. Plus I hate suggesting books tor them to read, I don’t want to seem like I know what they need spiritually. I don’t even know what I need spiritually.

Terry

 

[nobody]

I just got the book - picked up the last copy at the local store. I’m looking forward to the discussion.

 

[crosstimbers]

I started a knitting thread here.
Enjoy!
Nancy

 

[Joan1969]

Hi everyone!

I just got my book in the mail. If enough people have it, I thought we could start posting about chapter 1 (on prudence) this Monday.

If anyone is still waiting for the book, let me know. I want to make sure we’re all on the same page (no pun intended ).

See you Monday!

 

[crosstimbers]

My book arrived yesterday so I’m ready to go.

 

[Joan1969]

I just finished the chapter on prudence. I thought Father’s questions might be a good way to discuss the book. How would everyone apply the virtue of prudence in their life?

The book is short, so it only scratches the surface and gets you thinking with respect to all the virtues. Certainly the idea of being prudent first with respect to God, and only second with respect to worldly goods, is the most important thing to think about. We are living in a time when being a Christian is getting more difficult, and people are increasingly willing to marginalize our Faith by mocking us or even trying to harass us legally.

There is nothing “prudent” about putting one’s worldly position ahead of the truth. As lies triumph, everyone suffers in the long run. That much was clear from Father’s example of the Nazis. The “prudence” of millions translated into their destruction.

Nowadays we are expected to be silent with respect to the homosexual movement, and with respect to attacks on human life (medical people are especially pressured here). In England, the Church is being persecuted regarding same-sex adoption. In California, it’s contraceptives. We have a choice; speak up now and refuse to lose our freedoms or give in and suffer the consequences. I, for one, am praying that Catholics become increasingly “imprudent” (but really prudent in God’s eyes) as this pressure is increasingly applied.

 

[nobody]

Hello Joan,

I have been trying to focus on how I can practice prudence in my everyday life. For me, as for many mothers, that means rasing children, keeping house, and (for me -part time) work.

The easiest one for me is work - be honest and fair.

Keeping house - I’m not sure how to apply here - don’t spend too much time on computer, don’t waste time, have priorities in line?

Raising children - gets even sketchier - sooo many judgement calls in discipline, education, etc. I try to keep in mind their spiritual well being first, mental well being second, physical well being third.

What do you think of this?

 

[nobody]

One more area for prudence in my daily life: finances. This is a hard one for me, as well. We live paycheck to paycheck, so when is it okay to charge something to the credit card? Or get a loan? Emergency car repairs, special supplies needed for children for school or sports, medical bills? How do we work charitable and church contributions in?

 

[Joan1969]

Hi Nobody,

I know just what you’re talking about regarding prudence and raising kids. One thing I think (supernaturally) prudent parents would do is to keep their kids from being corrupted by our culture. Most parents nowadays buy too much for the kids and let them watch a lot of TV, with all its commercials and general problems. Keeping them free of this as much as possible should yield rewards later on. I’m hoping so, because I have to say this is the area where I do best. But the kids still squabble an awful lot, and they’re still not very obedient. The prudent thing for me is just to avoid getting overstressed by the time late evening rolls around!

For finance, there are some good Catholic/Christian books on finance, or the book Personal Finance for Dummies is also invaluable (IMO). Ultra prudent stuff!

 

[crosstimbers]

Nobody,
Personal finance has always been a challenge for me too! A couple of things that have helped me are:

1. Any of Mary Hunt’s “Cheapskate” books. Lots of good advice on getting out of debt and staying out.
2. This budgeting software has been very helpful. Helps you keep track of money before you spend it instead of tracking it afterwards. I have no financial stake in the software or website, just a satisfied customer. Any time I’ve had a question they have gotten back to me immediately. There are also a lot of good articles on the site.

Nancy

 

[Joan1969]

Hi All,

I thought that maybe tomorrow would be a good day to start posting about chapter 2, Justice. But I hope no one hesitates to share thoughts on earlier chapters as well. Wherever you are in the book is fine.

 

[nobody]

Would anyone like to discuss the introduction?
I thought the explanation of natural vs. supernatural virtues was helpful. On pages 20-21, he explains that the goal of natural virtues is to lead a good life in this world, but these virtues are raised to a supernatural level by grace, which strengthens them and changes the motivation and goal to pleasing God and doing His will.
I’ve been trying to let this sink in.

 

[Joan1969]

I think you make an excellent point. Of course, anybody should feel free to comment on any part of the book at any time.

One of the strengths of Catholic theology is that it freely acknowledges and appreciates the reality of natural virtues and wisdom. That’s why Catholic monks so carefully preserved “pagan” philosophy and scientific and legal writings. Not all Protestants had that view, since they saw human nature as being totally corrupted. Even today, if you read some Protestant sources, they tend to exaggerate the evil of the pre-Christian and non-Christian world.

 

[nobody]

I’ll try to start the discussion on ch. 2: Justice.

One sobering thought, on pg. 53 “We all must be more aware of the fact that we all accidentally participate in injustice.”
One area that I have felt this guilt, as an US citizen, is the treatment of Native Americans.

His explanation (p. 52) of the death of Jesus being required by divine Justice, and that Jesus did not have to die to redeem the world, that His becoming human did that, was a little confusing for me. I only remember hearing that He had to die, to conquer death. Perhaps this goes back to the original sin, which was done b/c of free will.

The virtue of religion being a part of the virtue of justice was an interesting point. People who participate in the Church, but lack charity, are a good example of people who are religously oriented but not acting Christian. Grace can raise the natural virtue of religion up to the supernatural virtue of faith. Was he saying that reverence can help us open up to that grace?

One thing I’m missing, though, is whether there is a supernatural virtue of Justice. I don’t think he wrote on this. It seems there should be. What would some examples of this be?

 

[Joan1969]

Hi everybody,

In reading what Father had to say, I think the answer to Nobody’s question is that Justice is a natural virtue. To “take it to the next level” would be to practice Charity. That would be my supposition.

I think a great deal of discretion must be exercised in criticizing or condemning the economic or social inequities of the past. One fact to consider is that, due to lack of technology, all labor was basically manual labor or animal labor. That kept potential human production low, and meant that wages were necessarily very small in comparison with nowadays. In other words, the reason we have no slaves nowadays is because we have no temptaion to that; wages in the western world are simply much too high to make it an efficient way of doing things. In many countries, though, slavery or its equivelent still does exist. In the western world, injustices like abortion predominate, because that is what we are tempted to by secular and economic factors.