I guess you think that if we keep re reading them, we will eventually interpret them according to your reformed theology? The grace of God is the sole basis of our salvation. Faith and works are not separated from the grace. Justification and rewards for good works are different matters.
Once again it is obvious that you do not understand Catholic theology, which is not “Roman” by the way.
No, Reformed. The NT was written by, for, and about Catholics. There is nothing in it that contradicts Catholic teaching. Catholic theology is biblical because it was produced by Catholics.
I marvel that you seem to have this agenda to give catholics “difficulties” “problems” “struggle” and “wrestling” assignments. It makes your approach seem adversarial and contrary.
Jesus joined the HS to the waters of baptism.
And thank you, for your support! :hug1:This isn’t true. In fact I tend to post vs 13 without vs 12 more often than not.
PS Please stop with the “Roman” already. Catholic will suffice and doesn’t offend our Eastern Catholic and Orthodox brethren who hold to the very same Apostolic Faith. Thank you for your consideration.
Did you think there was a difference between the two? The Apostles taught that baptism washes away our sins, transfers us from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light, seals us with the HS, and makes us adopted sons and daughters of God. By it we are buried into His death,and joined to His resurrection.
Do you know why He spoke in parables. You gave verses but no answer. He had to explain the meaning to the apostles.
I think he is probably making reference to the elect vs the damned. Some are given to know, and others are not.
Is the belief that the “elect” are saved and those who do not understand the message are damned?
I just dont get it … did Jesus come then for the elect only? Why would Jesus say he came for sinners and not the righteous? How does one in the elect know so … and know that he is and not being deceived?
Yes, I am sure Reformed will correct me if I am wrong, but only the elect, according to this different gospel, are regenerated, and only the regenerated can hear and understand the message. The only ones that come are the ones the Father has drawn to Him. The rest are “children of the devil”.
According to reformed theology, the elect will do the will of God. They cannot do otherwise, since it is God’s sovereign will that they persevere in the faith.
I don’t see much love in the Reformed gospel, but I think you are right, they are expected to preach the gospel. Reformed has been clear that this is his purpose here. I think he believes there may be some of the elect hidden in here amongst the rest of us damned, and he is reaching out so as to get them to come out of the Catholic “system” and to the cross of Christ, so they may be saved by grace alone, by faith alone, for God’s glory alone, etc.
I believe this is the reformed teaching. He predestined those who were to be saved from the foundation of the world.
I think the reformed position is that the elect cannot be saved unless they hear the gospel. When that happens, they are regenerated, since they were chosen in advance. The elect, it is said, then persevere in grace to the end. All who are called are glorified, because it is impossible to resist God’s grace. One will not be deceived because one will have the HS in his heart that bears witness to his elected state.
In my discussions with those of the reformed traditions, it seems clear that they don’t think Jesus had much to say about salvation. the letters of Paul are said to lay out the “clear doctrines of salvation” and other passages pale in comparison.
This is not necessary if one believes that Jesus was not addressing us, but the Jewish nation.
At what point does the Apostle Paul teach in his 13 Epistles that we are justified and have eternal peace with God? The Scriptures testify we have peace with God and are eternally adopted into the family of God at conversion. The reason that our justification is permanent at the point of conversion is because our justification is based solely on the perfect righteousness of Christ alone. The key to understanding justification in a legal or forensic biblical way is to pray and study Romans chapters 3 and 4, and the entire book of Galatians.
Unlike the Paulist sects, of which you appear to be a member, the Apostolic Churches do not derive salvation doctrine solely from the 13 Epistles of Paul. We find this creates a myopic and inaccurate rendering of the complete Apostolic message.
We believe this happens in baptism.This is one area where the Apostolic faiths differ from the Paulist. We believe the key to understanding is to receive the revelation of God deposited once for all to the Church. Yes, whe read, study, and pray, but doing this apart from the sacred message entrusted to the Apostles will easily result in heresies, as can be seen from the early days of the Church.
Actaully, this is in not “Roman”. This is what we have received from the apostles. However, you rendering is marred. The Apostles taught that salvation had not been perfected until we are glorified. So, we would say that we have not yet attained, not that it was “lost”.
Actually, a fervent Catholic will strive NOT to “go through this cycle”. Jesus wants us to live a life of holiness by the power of His spirit. He is able to accomplish this in us.
Your logic is wrong. You are thinking that, because something can kill a person, that thing can also give life. This is an error. We are saved by grace, through faith. Sin kills the life of grace in the soul. It is wrong to say that sin, because it can kill, can also provide life.
Receive and rejoice in the truth of the Word of God. It is “finished” - Jesus Christ.
Well, he had certainly finished with the fourth cup of the Passover.
His work in us is not finished, and neither is ours.
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Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
It is possible to move, so that one is no longer standing in grace.
How is it that "hope does not disappoint us is allowed for Paulists, but not for Catholics?
Please pray and read the biblical passage again. The disciples asked Jesus the exact question of “why do you speak in parables?” Jesus answered and His answer is recorded in the Scriptures. I think we all need to pray and ask God the Holy Spirit to illuminate the Word of God before we try to interpret and understand the Word of God. We cannot read Scriptures on our own through our flesh and expect to understand it correctly. It is the ministry of God the Holy Spirit to illuminate spiritual truths to our minds and hearts through the Holy Scriptures according to God’s pleasure, God’s timing, and God’s way. All spiritual truths are concealed until God decides when and if He reveals these truths to us. We are all dependent on God for spiritual growth and understanding. It is by the grace of God alone to we are able to progressively grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ…to the praise of His glorious grace.
It is very Catholic of you to say this!
As I mentioned on an earlier post. Protestants are catholics. Roman Catholics are catholics. And Orthodox are catholics too. Therefore, when we speak of catholics who happen to worship corporately as Roman Catholics, I need to make the distinction between Roman Catholic catholics and Protestant catholics. Did I loose anyone?It is very Catholic of you to say this!
It would be against the rules if I changed the words of your posts, for example, if I changed every instance of “Roman Catholic” in your post to “pagan idolaters” or something like that. When I answer your posts, I am giving the Catholic answer, not the “Roman” Catholic answer, and I want that to be clear to all who read it. Our catechism is entitled “Catechism of the Catholic Church” not “Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church.” A Byzantine Catholic is not Roman Catholic, a Ruthenian Catholic is not a Roman Catholic, an Alexandrian Catholic is not a Roman Catholic, an Antiochan Catholic is not a Roman Catholic, etc… but they are very much Catholic and it is on their behalf that I beg you to stop with the “Roman” as it is inaccurate when used in the context of explaining and defending the Catholic Faith.
I think you undermine Protestant’s claim to be catholic. What makes you more catholic than Protestants that have been redeemed, reconciled, and adopted into the family of God through the person and work of Christ alone? Did Jesus die only for Roman Catholics and Orthodox sinners?
Well, I can’t help but see the irony of people with conflicting and contradictory doctrines calling themselves “catholic” but since the Church teaches that they are imperfectly joined to the Catholic Church by virtue of their Trinitarian Baptism and the Truths that we do have in common, if they want to use the word catholic to describe themselves it’s totally fine with me. Most fundamentalists I know would rather eat nails than use the word catholic to describe their faith.
Because I am in full communion with the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Christ and His Apostles, and not a faith community founded by a man or group of men some 1500+ years later. This is not a point of pride, but of absolute awe that He would bring me to His Church after everything I believed and said against Her.
Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. I believe your Reformed beliefs deny this, is that correct?
I don’t think Roman Catholic theology believes in universalism. At the end of the day, Reformed theology and Roman Catholic theology teaches particular (limited) atonement. It is just understood differently. Actually, some of the works of Augustine influenced the Protestant Reformers on the doctrine of election and predestination. The Roman Catholic Church allows a very diverse view within Roman Catholics on the subject of predestination. If Christ came to save the entire world, why did He fail in His apparent mission to save the entire world. Surely, God knew the results prior to the incarnation.