Reading Scripture together as Christians

[tGette]

I’m sorry, I mean at the end of chapter 1.
**
“For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake”,**

In regards to God accomplishing His will through granting, causing, permitting, ect…the results are the same. If God is all powerful, He always has the ability to prevent something from happening. If He does not prevent or intervene from somthing to happen, doesn’t God indirectly cause it to happen since He did not intereven to prevent something? Can God prevent all adopted children from being apostate? My ansewer is yes. This is a truth you can rest upon:

I am going to comment only on this verse and your ensuing comment:

Again, God granting something is entirely different than God forcing something to happen.

According to how you commented, can a parent then be held responsible for what their child does once they are out of the house? Sure they granted them permission to go somewhere unsupervised…but does that make the parent 100% liable for that kid’s actions? My answer…for course…is NO.

I see your line of logic, but just because God does not prevent something does not mean He caused it to happen, no. I guess I do not understand how Calvinist Reformed Theology explains free will…but if God causes everything…then there is no free will, bottom line.

If God prevents everything this would equal no free will.
God prevents things according to His Will and while NEVER compromising our free will! So if evil is making TOO much of an impact on the world God will intervene to a degree…as He incessantly intervenes every second of the day.

Now…referring to the Scripture quote above:
What being said here is pointing out a reality which Christ taught in the Gospels. That being that we will have to carry our crosses! It is simply stating that living for Christ is going to bring about human opposition and we are going to have to suffer for that sake. It is almost pointing out the obvious.

For example: (hypothetical scenario)
I have a friend who is considering become one of those Ultimate Fighters and I tell him that there will be great suffering in doing so.
-or-
I have a friend who wants to become a professional football player and I tell him that it is going to involve a lot of strenuous physical work.

I tell each of these friends that there will come joys in doing this from satisfaction of winning a game or winning a fight.

What occurs in these two above examples is that I am just stating the obvious outcomes. And so it is for a Christian. Paul is simply telling us that, of course, a believe in Christ and living for Christ will bring about great joy and great hardship/suffering/etc.

 

[Reformed]

I believe this passage is meant to emphasize God’s faithfulness and this passage is fulfilled in those elect for glory. I think the following is a good explanation of this passage:

**Does this verse then teach that one who begins in saving faith will inevitably continue in that faith until the “day of Christ Jesus?” The advocates of unconditional security are trying to squeeze far more from this verse than was intended by Paul. Paul was confident in the work of God being completed in the Philippians to whom he writes because he had every reason to believe that they would endure in the faith. Paul explains why he has such confidence in them: They have participated in the ministry of the gospel from the “first day until now.” (1:5) They have shared in grace with Paul in supporting his ministry and supporting him while in prison (1:7; 4:18, 19). Paul is also confident that God will complete his work in them because he is praying for them and trusting God on their behalf (1:3, 9-11).

Since Paul has every reason to believe that they will continue in the faith based on their track record he can express his confidence that God will continue to work in them since God cannot fail to work in believers. All believers who continue in the faith will see God’s work completed in them on the “day of Christ Jesus.” Paul is not guaranteeing that they will make it to glory but only expressing his personal confidence in them based on his own experience of their commitment to the gospel of Jesus Christ. However, Paul’s confidence is seen to be a cautious confidence in that he warns them to continue following his example of single minded commitment to the gospel of Christ lest they begin to focus instead on the things of this world and become enemies of the cross (3:17-19). Paul still expresses concern that he may yet return to them and not find them standing firm in Christ, and for that reason encourages them to continually conduct themselves in a manner worthy of the gospel (1:27). In verses 12-13 we see that Paul has grounds for confidence in them since they have “always” obeyed, and yet he admonishes them to continue to “work out your salvation with fear and trembling.” (2:12) If there destination was guaranteed there should be nothing for them to fear (cf. Rom. 11:19-22). Yet they must continue to “work out” their salvation by yielding to the working of God within them (2:13).

Philippians 2:12-13 gets to the heart of the matter and provides the primary context by which we should understand Paul’s comments in 1:3. God will complete His work in them but only as they continue to yield to that “working” within them. If they continue to yield to the work of God within them God will certainly bring that work to completion (perfect it) on “the day of Christ Jesus.” We cannot do this work in ourselves, God must do it. We cannot even yield to the work of God in us on our own, but we can do “all things through Him” who strengthens us. We are still called on to fearfully submit to God’s work and there is nothing in Paul’s words that would suggest that we cannot resist that work and fail to see it brought to perfection in us. In fact, Philippians 2:13 suggests just the opposite.**

arminianperspectives.wordpress.com/

To be continued…

LOL…LOL…LOL…!

It sure seems that you are playing Arminian Protestants against Calvinist Protestants. That not very fair brother unless the Arminians represent your views. Maybe RC is semi-Pelagian after-all?. I want to know what you have to say about the chapter that we are discussing. If you are going to post a commentary, please make it a Catholic one.

 

[Reformed]

I believe everything that happens happens in accordance with God’s will, whether he activley causes it or permits it. While God did not activley cause Satan’s fall - and Satan started out existence as a good angel - He permitted it to occur. I believe that those who enter eternal glory are there because God has ensured they would be there by giving them the gift of final perseverance. And those who fall from grace fall because God has permitted them to fall, as He did in the case of Satan and Adam.

God Bless,
Michael

I think if you are going to post Protesant commentaries, you should post Reformed commentaries because they sure do line-up better with your personal views. Here’s a link for you below the cross if you choose to post additional Protestant commentaries.

http://www.ohiocrc.org/images/calvin.jpg

Play fair Michael…

 

[Reformed]

I am going to comment only on this verse and your ensuing comment:

Again, God granting something is entirely different than God forcing something to happen.

According to how you commented, can a parent then be held responsible for what their child does once they are out of the house? Sure they granted them permission to go somewhere unsupervised…but does that make the parent 100% liable for that kid’s actions? My answer…for course…is NO.

I see your line of logic, but just because God does not prevent something does not mean He caused it to happen, no. I guess I do not understand how Calvinist Reformed Theology explains free will…but if God causes everything…then there is no free will, bottom line.

If God prevents everything this would equal no free will.
God prevents things according to His Will and while NEVER compromising our free will! So if evil is making TOO much of an impact on the world God will intervene to a degree…as He incessantly intervenes every second of the day.

Now…referring to the Scripture quote above:
What being said here is pointing out a reality which Christ taught in the Gospels. That being that we will have to carry our crosses! It is simply stating that living for Christ is going to bring about human opposition and we are going to have to suffer for that sake. It is almost pointing out the obvious.

For example: (hypothetical scenario)
I have a friend who is considering become one of those Ultimate Fighters and I tell him that there will be great suffering in doing so.
-or-
I have a friend who wants to become a professional football player and I tell him that it is going to involve a lot of strenuous physical work.

I tell each of these friends that there will come joys in doing this from satisfaction of winning a game or winning a fight.

What occurs in these two above examples is that I am just stating the obvious outcomes. And so it is for a Christian. Paul is simply telling us that, of course, a believe in Christ and living for Christ will bring about great joy and great hardship/suffering/etc.

Mr mikeledes…do you mind responding to your Catholic brother on his post?

 

[Reformed]

Here is chapter 2. Please feel free to comment of either chapter 1 or 2.

Philippians 2

Christ’s Example of Humility
2:1 So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy, 2 complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. 3 Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. 4 Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. 5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, [1] 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, [2] being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Lights in the World
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

14 Do all things without grumbling or questioning, 15 that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, 16 holding fast to the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I may be proud that I did not run in vain or labor in vain. 17 Even if I am to be poured out as a drink offering upon the sacrificial offering of your faith, I am glad and rejoice with you all. 18 Likewise you also should be glad and rejoice with me.

Timothy and Epaphroditus
19 I hope in the Lord Jesus to send Timothy to you soon, so that I too may be cheered by news of you. 20 For I have no one like him, who will be genuinely concerned for your welfare. 21 For they all seek their own interests, not those of Jesus Christ. 22 But you know Timothy’s [3] proven worth, how as a son [4] with a father he has served with me in the gospel. 23 I hope therefore to send him just as soon as I see how it will go with me, 24 and I trust in the Lord that shortly I myself will come also.

25 I have thought it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus my brother and fellow worker and fellow soldier, and your messenger and minister to my need, 26 for he has been longing for you all and has been distressed because you heard that he was ill. 27 Indeed he was ill, near to death. But God had mercy on him, and not only on him but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow. 28 I am the more eager to send him, therefore, that you may rejoice at seeing him again, and that I may be less anxious. 29 So receive him in the Lord with all joy, and honor such men, 30 for he nearly died for the work of Christ, risking his life to complete what was lacking in your service to me.

 

[Reformed]

2 Timothy 3

All Scripture Is Breathed Out by God

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

Can you do good works without a good understanding of the Word of God?

2 Timothy 2

A Worker Approved by God

Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers. Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness, and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some. But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”

20 Now in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver but also of wood and clay, some for honorable use, some for dishonorable. 21 Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from what is dishonorable, [3] he will be a vessel for honorable use, set apart as holy, useful to the master of the house, ready for every good work. 2 Tim 2

 

[guanophore]

[For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake, engaged in the same conflict that you saw I had and now hear that I still have.]

The cross is the door to mysteries. Through this door the intellect makes entrance in to the knowledge of heavenly mysteries. The knowledge of the cross is concealed in the sufferings of the cross. And the more our participation in its sufferings, the greater the perception we gain through the cross. For, as the Apostle says, `As the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.
The Ascetical Homilies of St. Isaac of Syria

Thank you, Mickey. When Reformed mentioned Catholic and Reformed commentaries, the first thought I had was that we should explore what the fathers had to say.

 

[Mickey]

Christ’s Example of Humility
2:1 So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy, 2 complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. 3 Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. 4 Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. 5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, [1] 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, [2] being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

**Paul writes, ‘I know of nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this’ (1 Cor. 4:4). You see he does not exalt himself, but humbles and abases himself in every way, and that just when he had reached the summit. And the Three Children were in the fire, in the midst of the furnace, and what did they say? ‘For we have sinned and transgressed by departing from You; and we have done evil in every way’ (Dan. 3:29). This is what it is to have a contrite heart. **
St. John Chrysostom

 

[Among_Strangers]

In this chapter I like Phil 2:3 & 4 (because it is another personal admonition) Do nothing from selfishness or conceit, but in humility count others better than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. (RSV-CE)

Reformed, you asked:

Can you do good works without a good understanding of the Word of God?

Of course one can. In this question you have left it open to two very different view points. Protestants, especially American Evangelical Protests, see the phrase Word of God and instantly think Bible. Catholics see the phrase **Word of God **and think Jesus Christ or Christ the Word. So, of course one may do very good works without understanding Christ. Ones understanding has nothing to do with the work of God through whom He wishes to work. It is not our understanding of God that is important. He drives the way He wishes, no matter what we understand. Since He is all good and can do nothing besides, the work he does in and through any person is therefore good without any qualification of understanding anything by any other party.

I think a lot of the problems Catholics and Protests have is communication. We use the same terms but they mean entirely different things. Hopefully threads like this will go a long way in clearing up our communication problems.

 

[mikeledes]

LOL…LOL…LOL…!

It sure seems that you are playing Arminian Protestants against Calvinist Protestants. That not very fair brother unless the Arminians represent your views. Maybe RC is semi-Pelagian after-all?. I want to know what you have to say about the chapter that we are discussing. If you are going to post a commentary, please make it a Catholic one.

http://www.alphadictionary.com/images/chimp2.gif

Hey, Catholics and Lutherans agree with Arminians that not all of the justified persevere to the end. So did Augustine, and I doubt he would consider himself semi-Pelagian. I thought that that was a pretty good exegsis of the passage, though I don’t necessarily agree with all of the conclusions of Arminianism. However, I do believe that Paul expresses confidence that God will complete the work He began in the Philippians because of the persevering faith and love of the gospel that he himself has witnessed. We should emulate the Phillipians.

God bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

Mr mikeledes…do you mind responding to your Catholic brother on his post?

I’ll have to do it tomorrow, because I have to go!

God Bless,
Michael

 

[Reformed]

In this chapter I like Phil 2:3 & 4 (because it is another personal admonition) Do nothing from selfishness or conceit, but in humility count others better than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. (RSV-CE)

Reformed, you asked:

Can you do good works without a good understanding of the Word of God?

Of course one can. In this question you have left it open to two very different view points. Protestants, especially American Evangelical Protests, see the phrase Word of God and instantly think Bible. Catholics see the phrase **Word of God **and think Jesus Christ or Christ the Word. So, of course one may do very good works without understanding Christ. Ones understanding has nothing to do with the work of God through whom He wishes to work. It is not our understanding of God that is important. He drives the way He wishes, no matter what we understand. Since He is all good and can do nothing besides, the work he does in and through any person is therefore good without any qualification of understanding anything by any other party.

I think a lot of the problems Catholics and Protests have is communication. We use the same terms but they mean entirely different things. Hopefully threads like this will go a long way in clearing up our communication problems.

Actually, I really like what you said but I’m not sure if I agree. I believe that the only good work that is pleasing to God are good works done by those in union with Christ. It is not are Bible knowledge that makes our works pleasing to God, but our union with Christ. We know that those who are in the flesh cannot please God. The Word of God (Scriptures) is important because the knowledge of how to be united to Christ is revealed in the Scriptures.

8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. [1] 2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you [2] free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. 3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, [3] he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you. - Rom 8

What I don’t understand about Roman Catholic theology is how somone can be united to Christ and later on be no longer united to Christ, and then later be united to Christ again. It seems that once you are no longer united to Christ, you no longer cannot please God because you are now in the flesh. If Roman Catholics believe you can loose your status as an adopted child, does God have to re-adopted you again through another spiritual brith? Hebrews 6 appears to be a permanent apostasy…with no return to Christ.

Good works and deeds done by those who are not united to Christ

Isaiah 64:6:

     For all of us have become like one who is )unclean,
     And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment;
     And all of us wither like a leaf,
     And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

 

[Reformed]

Hey, Catholics and Lutherans agree with Arminians that not all of the justified persevere to the end. So did Augustine, and I doubt he would consider himself semi-Pelagian. I thought that that was a pretty good exegsis of the passage, though I don’t necessarily agree with all of the conclusions of Arminianism. However, I do believe that Paul expresses confidence that God will complete the work He began in the Philippians because of the persevering faith and love of the gospel that he himself has witnessed. We should emulate the Phillipians.

God bless,
Michael

I believe everything that happens happens in accordance with God’s will, whether he activley causes it or permits it. While God did not activley cause Satan’s fall - and Satan started out existence as a good angel - He permitted it to occur. I believe that those who enter eternal glory are there because God has ensured they would be there by giving them the gift of final perseverance. And those who fall from grace fall because God has permitted them to fall, as He did in the case of Satan and Adam.

God Bless,
Michael

If I understand what you believe, only those whom God has given the gift of final perserverance will entery glory and final justification (Heaven)? I believe you are saying that those in Heaven or will be have been given a special grace of final perserverance, correct? What makes that any different than Calvinists who believe in sovereign grace given to the elect? And if God knows whom He will grant the grace of final perserverance, why would he justify sinners whom will not receive the gift and grace of final perserverance, because without that grace given to God’s elect only, nobody else will perserve to the end. Does that make sense? Do you see the conflict?

 

[Reformed]

This thread is for all who love the Lord Jesus Christ. Feel free to comment on anything in chapter 1, 2, and 3. Here is chapter 3.

Philippians 3

Righteousness Through Faith in Christ
Finally, my brothers, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you is no trouble to me and is safe for you.

Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh. For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh— though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more: circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law, blameless. But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.

Straining Toward the Goal
Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you. Only let us hold true to what we have attained.

Brothers, join in imitating me, and keep your eyes on those who walk according to the example you have in us. For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things. But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Actually, I really like what you said but I’m not sure if I agree. I believe that the only good work that is pleasing to God are good works done by those in union with Christ. It is not are Bible knowledge that makes our works pleasing to God, but our union with Christ. We know that those who are in the flesh cannot please God. The Word of God (Scriptures) is important because the knowledge of how to be united to Christ is revealed in the Scriptures.

What do you make of Matthew 25 where the sheep didn’t even know they were serving the Lord?

Their deeds led to salvation. Others who also believed Jesus was Lord were condemned to Hell because they did not follow Jesus with their deeds.

 

[Reformed]

What do you make of Matthew 25 where the sheep didn’t even know they were serving the Lord?

Their deeds led to salvation. Others who also believed Jesus was Lord were condemned to Hell because they did not follow Jesus with their deeds.

It is very interesting how we understand Scripture, driven by our Christian communities. For the Protestant, a Christian is united to Christ eternally upon conversion before any work is done in Christ. However, not all who profess Christ are actually united to Christ and are the tares and goats inside the visiible church. Protetstants do not believe in baptismal regeneration, that through water baptism you are automatically born from above and united to Christ (john 3, Rom 5). The invisible church are those who are actually united to Christ and by the grace of God through the power of the Spirit, will walk in the works prepared for them to do (Ephesians 2:9). They might not even know that are walking in those works when they do them by the power of the Spirit. So, those sheep are living a progressive transforming life in service to God with their entire life, not just what we think are good works. We cannot divide our life in the secular and the spiritual. Our entire life is set apart for God. Here is the verse that you are speaking about. I think your understanding can have a possibility to lead to a works righteousness gospel and salvation (maybe?).

Matt 25

The Final Judgment

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Protetstants do not believe in baptismal regeneration, that through water baptism you are automatically born from above and united to Christ (john 3, Rom 5).

Actually, there are Protestants that affirm the Scriptural teaching of baptismal regeneration, but that’s another thread. Just wanted to clarify that for the casual reader.

 

[Reformed]

Actually, there are Protestants that affirm the Scriptural teaching of baptismal regeneration, but that’s another thread. Just wanted to clarify that for the casual reader.

Thank you for that information. Protestantism is such a broad term. The only Protetstant denomination that I know that teach both conversion through faith and/or water baptism is Lutheran. Do you know of any other Protestant denominations who believe in baptismal regeneration? Anglicans are not Protestants, but I do not believe they believe in baptismal regeneration. I know Mormons believe in baptismal regeneration. Howevever, LDS Christians will state that they are neither of Protestant or Catholic roots.

 

[Reformed]

Thank you for that information. Protestantism is such a broad term. The only Protetstant denomination that I know that teach both conversion through faith and/or water baptism is Lutheran. Do you know of any other Protestant denominations who believe in baptismal regeneration? Anglicans are not Protestants, but I do not believe they believe in baptismal regeneration. I know Mormons believe in baptismal regeneration. Howevever, LDS Christians will state that they are neither of Protestant or Catholic roots.

Additional Christian communities that teach baptismal regeneration are restoration churches such as the Church of Christ. The Mormon Church also falls under restoration theology. The Church of Christ is neither Protestant nor Roman Cahtolic.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptismal_regeneration

It’s interesting to read the wikipedia article above. It states that Lutherans do not teach baptismal regeneration, but Anglicans do. Here is the Lutheran reference.

Thirdly.

How can water do such great things?–Answer.

It is not the water indeed that does them, but the word of God which is in and with the water, and faith, which trusts such word of God in the water. For without the word of God the water is simple water and no baptism. But with the word of God it is a baptism, that is, a gracious water of life and a washing of regeneration in the Holy Ghost, as St. Paul says, Titus, chapter three: By the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost, which He shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ, our Savior, that, being justified by His grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. This is a faithful saying.

Therefore, it seems that we do not have a Protestant denomination who teaches baptismal regeneration.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Thank you for that information. Protestantism is such a broad term. The only Protetstant denomination that I know that teach both conversion through faith and/or water baptism is Lutheran. Do you know of any other Protestant denominations who believe in baptismal regeneration? Anglicans are not Protestants, but I do not believe they believe in baptismal regeneration. I know Mormons believe in baptismal regeneration. Howevever, LDS Christians will state that they are neither of Protestant or Catholic roots.

Anglicans are Protestants, just some are more high-church than others and can look and act very Catholic.
Church of Christ and their off-shoot branches: Christian Church, Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), Lutherans, and Methodists that I know off the top of my head.