Acts 18
What came first, believing or water baptism? The Scriptures testify that belief (faith, trust) comes before water baptism.
Indeed.
Baptism is not valid without faith and trust in Christ. Otherwise, it would just be “washing of dirt from the body” as the Apostle states.
Regeneration is the new brith which you receive the Spirit to give a dead sinner spiritual eyes to see Jesus as the Christ.
Well, we see it differently. You are espoused to your Reformed definition, and we have received the Apostolic Teaching. Curiously, they are different.
Why were many of the Corinithians able to believe before water baptism if baptismal regeneration is true? :
The grace of God that draws people into the regenerating waters of baptism is able to open their minds and hearts to the gospel.
Here is another pattern: He vigorously refuted the Jews in public, establishing from the scriptures that the Messiah is Jesus
Indeed, this is a pattern, rejected by the Reformers. Apostolic teaching should never be separated from the Scriptures.
Ohh… John 6 will give you great difficulties with your presuppositions.
On the contrary, it is our presuppositions that prevent us from having difficulty with Jn. 6
This is a staple for the Roman Catholic Christian. Phil 2:12 is always posted without Phil 2:13. It seems to me that Catholics want to leave out God in the process of transformation.
Philippians 2:12-13
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
It probably seems that way to you because you misunderstand the Catholic teaching. The monergism website makes it clear that Catholic teaching is misrepresented.
For Catholics, it is a given that it is God at work within us to will and to do His good pleasure. The point of dispute we have is on the point of cooperation with God’s grace. This is why we focus on that verse. We cooperate BECAUSE He is at work within us.
Do you believe that a person needs to partake in water baptism to be born from above?
Clearly not. God can cause anyone to be born again however He likes. Since we know that no one can enter the Kingdom of Heaven until and unless he is born again, and we see so many “unbaptized” persons already there, God has ways.
God took up Enoch and Elijah, neither of whom had a Christian baptism. Moses and Elijah appear to him and converse with Him about His upcoming crucifixion. All those who have gone before us in the faith listed in Heb. 11 have not had a Christian baptism. So obviously He has ways.
Thanks for sharing your beliefs and joining us on this thread. I hope you stick around. The Catholic Faith teaches that you have two sources of revelation: Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture.
This is false, Reformed. I strongly urge that you refrain from any attempts to represent what Catholics believe, since you have demonstrated yourself to be grossly ignorant and hostile to the Teachings. This is a CAtholic Answers forum, and it would be well if you could allow Catholic answers to be given, rather than your twisted perceptions of them. Please stick to the Reformed theology of which you have become a champion. At least you can represent that with some validity.
I have started a thread called Sacred Oral and Written Tradition, requesting access to the deposit of faith of Sacred Tradition. You will be surprised that Catholic theoligians debate within themselves (in-house) to what consists of the contents of Sacred Tradition. That’s a scary thing, considering the implications of continuing revelation. How do you know what to believe if Catholics don’t even know the deposit of faith of Sacred Tradition?
These statements demonstrate that you are misrepresenting the Catholic faith. First of all, access to the Sacred Tradition presupposes an openness to being taught by the Apostles that you do not have, therefore, it is not likely you can “access” it. It is not like some commodity that you can “purchase” off a shelf. It is a sacred trust, guarded by those appointed.
Any well student of theology would never be “suprised” that theologians disagree with one another, no matter what their faith pursuasion. Catholic theologians are not the definers of the faith, but those to whom the Sacred Deposit of Faith was entrusted. The ignorant and recalcitrant can argue about it until the Last Day, and it will not change the Truth.
Code:
That's a scary thing, considering the implications of continuing revelation.
I must assume, since you have been corrected on this point several times, that this is a deliberate attempt to misconstrue Catholic teaching, and promote false witness. After reading your website last night, I learned that Catholics are not considered brothers and sisters in Christ. I am not sure if we can be considered your neighbor, either. Perhaps it is ok to bear false witness against those you consider infidels?
