Reality check 6,316 people dying every hour

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John121 said:
I think Padre Pio said that snow coming down in his local town was about the same amount of people going to Hell
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Since the Church won’t even declare that Hitler is in Hell, I don’t find this statement by Padre Pio particularly inspirational or motivational. Not a fan of his cult at all.
 
Pitcairn17 said:
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John121:
I think Padre Pio said that snow coming down in his local town was about the same amount of people going to Hell
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Since the Church won’t even declare that Hitler is in Hell, I don’t find this statement by Padre Pio particularly inspirational or motivational. Not a fan of his cult at all.
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This is false equivalency. The fact that we won’t declare any single individual is in Hell has no impact whatsoever on the question of the number of the damned.

We do not declare any specific person to be damned because we don’t know the full extent of God’s mercy. We cannot know if a person repented as they were dying, and so we cannot with certainty make any declarations as to their final fate.

That does not mean that we should simply discount the numerous testimonies of the saints, all of which would seem to indicate that there are many damned individuals. Even if you don’t care for Padre Pio, many other saints have given similar testimony.
 
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po18guy said:
That is justice. They chose poorly.
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I don’t exactly believe this line of theology (which is medieval - or worse) because historically the very guys speaking of “perfect justice” and “alignment of will” went on to burn people at the stake, happily aligning themselves with aspects the church itself denied latter.

Reading through the OT the “vile vase” destined for “indecorous use” needs to be rethought. I don’t believe “choice” beyond “informed choice” hence “choice” is reducing a term. The mystics themselves were frequently left wondering and unsure on what to think about the graces they received - “absolute certainty” and “choice” are mostly an illusionary product of hagiographers and biographers…
 
adgloriam said:
which is medieval - or worse
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What does the time period in which an idea was formulated have to do with the validity or correctness of that idea?

This is a common bias modern people have, thinking that the ideas of the past are wrong due simply to their age. It is part of the World’s need for constant change and novelty. The ideas of the past are bad because they are not out ideas and we now reject them because we no longer like the sound of them…
adgloriam said:
historically the very guys speaking of “perfect justice” and “alignment of will” went on to burn people at the stake, happily aligning themselves with aspects the church itself denied latter.
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Please provide evidence. That is a very bold assertion.
adgloriam said:
Reading through the OT the “vile vase” destined for “indecorous use” needs to be rethought.
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Why? Again, this speaks to worldly restlessness. That an understanding is ancient does not impact whether or not that understanding is valid. Simply because it is not new and novel, or in keeping with the modern world’s concepts of “fairness,” does not make it any less True.
 
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ProdglArchitect said:
What does the time period in which an idea was formulated have to do with the validity or correctness of that idea?
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Consult the catechism referring to the church’s pilgrimage on earth.
ProdglArchitect said:
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adgloriam:
historically the very guys speaking of “perfect justice” and “alignment of will” went on to burn people at the stake, happily aligning themselves with aspects the church itself denied latter.
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Please provide evidence. That is a very bold assertion.
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@Cruciferi

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Please speak to your Pastor. I did the same on this very issue, while feeling just as despondent as you do, and it provided a lot of clarification.
 
As a Christian I look at death this way. It’s the next step. It’s not to be fretted over or feared. I’m not just spouting platitudes, 8 weeks ago I stared it in the face. I was surprisingly at peace with whatever God had in store for me.
 
I must have more work to do. I have been assigned another responsibility in the parish and of course I said yes.
 
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adgloriam said:
Consult the catechism referring to the church’s pilgrimage on earth.
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Yeah, I have. That doesn’t mean that ideas of the past are automatically invalid due simply to the progression of time.
 
You are free to disagree, but do not conflate the acts of sinful, emotion-driven men with the perfection of our Creator! Do not look left and right - you risk losing your faith. Those around us who look left and right see us - and because of us, also risk losing their faith.

Look up!

Contemplate the perfection of God in all of His attributes: both mercy and justice.
 
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I said let’s say for example not that I know, and if you commit a mortal sin you are evil because it’s a evil act and the Bible states not one is good !
 
po18guy said:
do not conflate
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I was “struck” when I first saw the word “conflate” and it’s usage on CAF.

The translation of “conflate” to the Romance languages is simply “to combine”. (Thus the simpler less contrived synonym is advisable.)

To combine fallen human nature with divine nature wasn’t my aim.
po18guy said:
Look up!
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The Angels make a party for the one sinner that converts. Our Lord’s Holy will is that all be saved. The beatitude is hunger and thirst of justice, not happiness at another’s damnation. It’s not of justice that we are redeemed, but of mercy. The one who said:“I’m unworthy of contemplating heaven” went away justified, the other not.
 
John121 said:
There is no choice when you are surrounded by suffering and pain unless you are some sort of lunatic who has no human empathy
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I think it would be healthy to work on setting boundaries with your thoughts and actions during your day. While it’s good to have a concern for souls and pray for their redemption, you can’t know or comprehend the depth of this, and God does not require or command us to. You’re only human. You must also take some of this day to work for what is in front of you. Are you working? How do you survive? And how are you serving your neighbor today? That is God’s command for you. Your thoughts have become dangerous obsessions. You are not God, and you must give your thoughts over to God and learn gratitude in your own personal life.
 
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John121 said:
I said let’s say for example not that I know, and if you commit a mortal sin you are evil because it’s a evil act and the Bible states not one is good !
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You appear to have difficulty distinguishing the person from the act. Just because a person commits a mortal sin it does not mean that person is evil. The Church does not say the person is evil so why are you contradicting the Church?
 
If sin does not make a person evil then by people’s standard on here it’s impossible to be evil!
 
The people who changed the world were more in tune with reality, the point of guessing averaging how much souls are being lost is so like when we’re told the beginning of wisdom is the fear of God and this fear drives us to obediance in his commandments.

The same fear will drive people to realize we are doing very little when so many are perishing!
 
So since we’re all evil then, how can we evil humans go Heaven, as sin makes us evil?
 
By being under grace you are set free from evil.

It’s very simple if you commit sin you are evil if you don’t your are righteous under Gods grace by Christ
 
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