Rebuttals for same sex marriage PLEASE!

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These acts are not natural.

You did not answer - do humans have self control?
 
michaelArc said:
Okay, I digress. But do you not think your statement that sex is used for stress relief as kind of absurd? Is this what your partner is used for?
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No.

But I have few associates whom have stress issues whom do not want to use medications. Their Doctors have suggested sex. And then the question always comes up about what if the partner is not willing? The Doctor suggests mastuerbation. This has only been a problem for one, a fellow parishioner. He asked me about it. I told him, go back to your doctor and get a prescription letter written for it and show it to our Priest and take it from there. Priest was perplexed but ended recognizing the Prescription has a valid exception and used the same argument for missing Mass when one is sick as a correlation. I think that Priest is stressing over that decision to this day.
 
niceatheist said:
so I can sympathize with the notion that sexual orientation become a protected class in that regard.
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Sure. I’d not suggest that mere orientation is grounds to discriminate. In SSM, the matter of conscience is not to contribute to what are felt to be seriously wayward acts. The service provider I tend to think of is the videographer- asked to make a beautiful momento of the occasion. His objection is not the orientation of the persons involved, but what they do and celebrate, and in which he is compelled to contribute.
 
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You have inadvertently tripped over the liberal fallacy. When it comes to liberty claims, one side always gets disparaged. Liberty claims cannot be resolved without moral standards.
 
It will cost them in many ways. The highest # of new AIDS cases are in homosexual teens. Way to go America.
 
Our (Christian/Catholic) standards are great and what made America great.
 
Whenever this is put to a vote it fails. (polls as we know are an issue) Let, we the people, vote.
 
buffalo said:
Whenever this is put to a vote it fails. (polls as we know are an issue) Let, we the people, vote.
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SSM? Australians voted 60% in favour. It would not be materially different in the US (I believe). I think about 10% of electoral seats opposed.
 
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This is a state’s rights issue When taken to a vote here in the US it has failed.
 
Hi, Joe!

I came in late into this… but consider this (if it has not been offered previously):
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles. 24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. 28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. (Romans 1)
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It is not a matter of Church Teaching only, but a matter of Yahweh God’s determination.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
A few years ago. CA maybe? Regulating marriage is still a state issue.
 
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vsedriver said:
from a purely secular point of view, gay marriage is wrong because it discriminates against all others who were also under the ban of not being allowed to be married because marriage was about protection of any children produced by the man and woman. If you take children out of the equation, which is what you must do in order to see gay marriage as legally no different from heterosexual marriage then you are discriminating against people who want plural marriage or familial marriage. Why can’t I marry my elderly mother and carry her on my health insurance plan like any other spousal privilege? Why can’t two brothers marry? Or a brother and sister? (genetic risk is nullified by legalized abortion).
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African-Americans gained the right to vote before women. Was that discriminatory against women? This seems a pretty weak defense of keeping gay marriage banned, that somehow some other group remains disadvantaged.
 
buffalo said:
These acts are not natural.

You did not answer - do humans have self control?
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Sure they do. You have to yet to convince me that homosexual activities is something that should be controlled.
 
Sex and skin color are innate. Homosexual acts are always a choice. Unless you claim humans have no self control.
 
buffalo said:
You have inadvertently tripped over the liberal fallacy. When it comes to liberty claims, one side always gets disparaged. Liberty claims cannot be resolved without moral standards.
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I’m not disparaging anyone. But the fact of that matter, in a collision of liberties, there is going to be a winner to one degree, and a loser to one degree. The issue here is how to balance it so that no one is disadvantaged that much.

I imagine if, twenty five years ago when the LGBTQ movement began complaining about the inequity in how their life partners were treated by pension funds, hospitals, adoption agencies, and so forth, if civil unions with equivalent-to-marriage rights attached had been floated, you probably wouldn’t be looking at SSM today. But the unwillingness among social conservatives to find some level of compromise pretty much wiped out any notion of compromise on the gay rights advocates’ part. Social conservatives wanted to have their cake and eat it too, and now they have no cake, and a majority of Americans support the Supreme Court’s decision.
 
buffalo said:
Are you stating pleasure in acts trumps health and its costs?
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I’d say costs are inevitable in a free society. I think the idea of using cost as a means to deprive people of freedom is abhorrent. And once again, these practices you find so awful are also practiced by heterosexuals. Unless you want to start installing cameras in all bedrooms to make sure costly sexual practices aren’t happening, you’re going to have to accept that people have the right to do things that might be more costly.

And really, with proper protection or in monogamous relationships, the risks aren’t that much greater.
 
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