Rebuttals for same sex marriage PLEASE!

[theCardinalbird]

I can’t imagine why an infinite, eternal, omnipotent being would care if someone on the tiny speck of dust some of the locals call earth is gay or marries someone of their own sex.

Maybe because he cares as to what happens to us humans?

 

[niceatheist]

niceatheist:

I can’t imagine why an infinite, eternal, omnipotent being would care if someone on the tiny speck of dust some of the locals call earth is gay or marries someone of their own sex.

Maybe because he cares as to what happens to us humans?

That doesn’t really answer the question. He may care, but since He can literally do anything, any alleged “damage” can be repaired with the snap of His metaphorical hand.

No, this hatred of homosexuality and the prohibitions against it seem all too human to me.

 

[theCardinalbird]

No, this hatred of homosexuality and the prohibitions against it seem all too human to me.

Really? U was under the impression that, considering God created sex for the purpose of life, he would not want his creation to abuse it and use it for a purpose that is contrary to why he created sex. God cares about how we act. Saying that same sex acts are what God intended is simply not true, because they achieve nothing close to the reason we have sex.

 

[niceatheist]

I just don’t buy that God would care that much.

 

[theCardinalbird]

Really? So if, in your opinion, God doesn’t care that much about what we do. Such as sinning, why did he die for our sins? He didn’t have to and also Jesus tells us to sin no more, so I’d logically assume that he would care.

Furthermore, if God didn’t care about who we marry then why did he create marriage between one man and one woman? If what you say is true then why would he only create one marriage?

 

[niceatheist]

Really? So if, in your opinion, God doesn’t care that much about what we do. Such as sinning, why did he die for our sins? He didn’t have to and also Jesus tells us to sin no more, so I’d logically assume that he would care.

Since God can repair any and all sins without limit, yes, I doubt very much that if such a being actually exists, that He would be all that concerned about finite matters like two men getting married.

Note here that I think the Bible is pretty much a construction of its time and place; that the Hebrew and later Jewish peoples, like many peoples, had strong taboos against homosexual acts, and naturally since we all create God in our own image, it seemed right and proper to make sure God agreed with that cultural taboo on paper.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Here’s my question for you, niceatheist. If you’re going to explore the idea of God existing…

Then why would God make it that I can’t find a boyfriend and have babies with him? Suppose I want BOTH a boyfriend and children through that union. Why did God make this impossible for me? God would be perfectly capable of making it possible, but (if He exists) He clearly chose not to. Thus, the hypothesis that God exists does not really give us reason to believe that He doesn’t care what men do with other men. Or it gives us reason to believe that God is a homophobe – your pick.

 

[jcrichton]

Wouldn’t she be in mortal sin then? Isn’t it sad when people believe they are allowed to receive the blessed Euchuarist in mortal sin? It’s sacrilege

Exactly!

But if I reeducate myself (vote by my conscience) and say it is perfectly ok with God ('cause we all know that God is Love and that’s all that matters, yeah right!) then I am not wrong; the Church must accept me as I want to be accept, it’s only “right” and “just.”

It is hollowood’s spirituality: do you, God loves you no matter what!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[theCardinalbird]

Since God can repair any and all sins without limit, yes, I doubt very much that if such a being actually exists, that He would be all that concerned about finite matters like two men getting married.

Our actions matter to him. How do we explain hell then. Your doubts about him run contrary to scripture on this matter. It is stated that marriage is between a man and a woman. Sodomy is a sin, and we all have to carry our crosses.

Note here that I think the Bible is pretty much a construction of its time and place; that the Hebrew and later Jewish peoples, like many peoples, had strong taboos against homosexual acts

The Jewish understood God’s reasons for the sanctity of marriage. You however don’t see it.
God doesn’t want anyone to go to hell for their actions. But some do (I hope not). Why is that? If God didn’t care about someone’s actions everyone would be in heaven and there would be no reason for a law, as well as Jesus’ death. But their were reasons for his death, and one of them is because sins are real (and sodomy is one of them) and God doesn’t like sin and wants us not to sin.

 

[jcrichton]

Yeah, hollowood has espoused such spirituality with that view (for God to be God man must be accepted as he wants to be); if you follow Scriptures you would find that it is not about my will or yours or anyone else’s. It’s about obedience to God.

“Be Holy for I AM HOLY!”

This is not a Call to do you. It is a Call to exist and be in God.

Have you noticed how the various manufacturers continue to play on human weakness to sell their products? We have commercials where children (and adults) are rude, malicious, sexualized, debased, dehumanized, promoted as insipid, loathsome, disrespectful, boastful… I could go on… only to solve the problem by using “their” products.

God is not about braking us down to build us according to His seasonal whim.

God is about Giving us and showing us human and Divine Dignity: Be Holy!

God will not take evil for good, disrespect for respect, death for Life.

Why would you want to serve a god that wants wickedness and righteousness to exist and be Loved equally?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

You are correct–hatred is human.

You are wrong; rejection of homosexuality is not hatred.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Only because you refuse to accept all of Scriptures… you remind me of a fellow that insisted that we engage in spiritual dialogue… he only wanted a few things as guide: no Bible, no Yahweh God, no Christ… being Catholic I cannot engage the all powerful overseer who is in all and in everything making everything god and creature all at the same time…

As an atheist, you cannot determine for God Who God is and God’s Goals and God’s Will. (pssst, neither can any Believer!)

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Note here that I think the Bible is pretty much a construction of its time and place; that the Hebrew and later Jewish peoples, like many peoples, had strong taboos against homosexual acts, and naturally since we all create God in our own image, it seemed right and proper to make sure God agreed with that cultural taboo on paper.

…and you be wrong… some “Jewish” people claim the same as you… they claim that sex is up for grabs… see, you’re not alone (they say misery loves company).

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[niceatheist]

Here’s my question for you, niceatheist. If you’re going to explore the idea of God existing…

Then why would God make it that I can’t find a boyfriend and have babies with him? Suppose I want BOTH a boyfriend and children through that union. Why did God make this impossible for me? God would be perfectly capable of making it possible, but (if He exists) He clearly chose not to. Thus, the hypothesis that God exists does not really give us reason to believe that He doesn’t care what men do with other men. Or it gives us reason to believe that God is a homophobe – your pick.

Well, here’s the other thing. I think sexual reproduction is an evolved trait (not all organisms reproduce sexually), and while sex is advantageous to be sure, I don’t see anything in nature that suggests some divine dictate so all sex must be procreative. You certainly see examples in the animal kingdom, particularly among other Great Apes, of sexual activity that does not have a procreative component.

So if God can tolerate a couple of female bonobo chimps having a same-sex encounter, I’m sure God is a big enough fellow to be able to tolerate John and Jeff getting hitched.

 

[niceatheist]

Only because you refuse to accept all of Scriptures… you remind me of a fellow that insisted that we engage in spiritual dialogue… he only wanted a few things as guide: no Bible, no Yahweh God, no Christ… being Catholic I cannot engage the all powerful overseer who is in all and in everything making everything god and creature all at the same time…

As an atheist, you cannot determine for God Who God is and God’s Goals and God’s Will. (pssst, neither can any Believer!)

Maran atha!

Angel

I can try to imagine what an infinite omnipotent being’s perspective might be. Yes, it’s pretty much uninformed, because I doubt anyone short of another infinite omnipotent being would have any ability to assess it, but really, even if there is this sacred law against homosexuality, it is ultimately a finite act.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Well, here’s the other thing. I think sexual reproduction is an evolved trait (not all organisms reproduce sexually), and while sex is advantageous to be sure, I don’t see anything in nature that suggests some divine dictate so all sex must be procreative. You certainly see examples in the animal kingdom, particularly among other Great Apes, of sexual activity that does not have a procreative component.

So if God can tolerate a couple of female bonobo chimps having a same-sex encounter, I’m sure God is a big enough fellow to be able to tolerate John and Jeff getting hitched.

You totally missed the point, perhaps because you’re not attracted to people of the same sex. When I was 22, I wanted two things probably more than anything else in the world: (1) a boyfriend, and (2) a family with kids. Of course, I wanted those kids to have the genetic material of both myself and the hypothetical boyfriend. Why isn’t that possible? Well, if God exists, the answer is that God didn’t make that possible. He could have, but He didn’t.

Do you see why that would piss a person like myself off?

But after I was done being angry, I thought rationally about it. If God does exist, then there was another alternative to what was going on, besides “God hates me”. It was that God was using the impossibility of procreation with another man to indicate to me that it was not good for me to pursue sexual intimacy with another man. And that’s how I took it. I do have a family today, and a lovely and amazing wife.

But my question for you is: if God didn’t care about homosexual activity or think it wrong, why didn’t he make it procreative? Gay people like having (their own biological) families too!

 

[jcrichton]

I think it comes down to what you ultimately accept.

If you reject Yahweh God as Revealed in Scriptures, then of course your take must be engaged from your personal perspective or the tenets which others have proposed and you acclaim/accept as doable.

The problem is mixing in systems.

Some “Catholics” and other “Christians” want to mix in secular principles with the Scriptural tenets–this is an impossibility.

Consider one story from Scriptures… the Hebrew people had lost the Arch of the Covenant; their enemies had captures it and soon they were suffering from tormenting bodily plagues. When it dawn on them to return the Arch (as a means to rid themselves of the “curse”) David and his people sought to retrieve the Arch… while in sight, someone noticed that the Arch was about to fall from the wagon/carriage… his concern was pure, his intent was pure, but he was not allowed to touch the Arch directly… sadly, he was dead on contact.

Homosexuality is defined as an abomination to God. This has not changed. Yet, if you do not accept the Revelation found in Scriptures you cannot accept homosexuality as an abomination to Yahweh God–you would determine that it is man’s bigotry/fallacy/error to see homosexuality as such; further, you would determine, for Yahweh God, that He is ok with it.

In the confusion found in the world, you would find “Catholics” and other “Christians” that would support your belief… ever heard of that old saying ‘two wrongs don’t make it right (a right)?’

There’s nothing I can offer that would persuade you to change your way of thinking. I respect that; conversely, there’s nothing that you can do to persuade me from what I believe is Yahweh God’s Revelation.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[niceatheist]

But my question for you is: if God didn’t care about homosexual activity or think it wrong, why didn’t he make it procreative? Gay people like having (their own biological) families too!

Well, just speculating here, but as I gave the example of another species (and one rather close to humans), bonobos have same-sex encounters that aren’t procreative, but at least in some circumstances seem to serve as a means of building or restoring social cohesion, or in some cases with males possibly to assert dominance. Again, this shouldn’t be surprising. While sex evolved as a procreative process, it’s yet another example of how a particular trait evolved for one purpose can be co-opted for another.

So the short answer is that not all sex is procreative, and this has been true long before humans even came on the scene.

 

[niceatheist]

There’s nothing I can offer that would persuade you to change your way of thinking. I respect that; conversely, there’s nothing that you can do to persuade me from what I believe is Yahweh God’s Revelation.

Maran atha!

Angel

There could be a thing called an accommodation or a compromise. You accept that the state, being a secular institution, can create civil marital relationships that allow same-sex partners the same rights and obligations that heterosexual partners enjoy, but nothing binds you and your church to accept them as anything other than civil affairs. Your church isn’t required to perform such ceremonies, you aren’t required to attend them, and, at least in a philosophical sense, you are not required to accept that these represent legitimate marriages.

Really, it’s much the same, I’m sure as to how you accept that a divorced person can remarry, in a civil context, even if the Church does not in fact recognize a remarriage without an annulment to be a valid marriage. I don’t see too many people condemning non-Catholics remarrying.

 

[Rau]

You certainly see examples in the animal kingdom, particularly among other Great Apes, of sexual activity that does not have a procreative component.

Ahh, yes, some animals eat their young so why can’t we?

So if God can tolerate a couple of female bonobo chimps having a [same sex encounter] I’m sure God is a big enough fellow to be able to tolerate John and Jeff getting hitched.

How do you know that God “tolerates” bonobos behaviour. Oh, wait…